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Thread: ENTJ?

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    Default ENTJ?

    Hello! I'm here because I want to confirm my personality type. I've done several tests, and score ENTJ / LIE. The Socionics descriptions describe me better than the MBTI version, which seems to assume that all ENTJs are square-jawed captains of industry, gung-ho military commanders, or megalomaniacal dictators. (Of course, I have written a five page manifesto for how the world should be run.)

    PersonalityMax report:
    E: 63%
    N: 68%
    T: 68%
    J: 53%

    Reasons why ENTJ fits:
    • Academic high achiever. Dominate classrooms. Know-it-all. Found it hard to understand people who weren't at school to learn.
    • Work environment: supervisors praise my voracious appetite for work, ability to quickly master tasks, meet deadlines, & analytical skills. Can be over-efficient: contracts have ended early because work supposed to last a month, I did in a fortnight.
    • In public situations, described as confident, fiery, aggressive, opinionated. But also friendly, cheerful & positive; full of gusto.
    • Highly eloquent; clarity of thought & writing style.
    • Natural public speaker. Relax when I'm the centre of attention. Sometimes find it easier to speak to an audience than to make small talk. I get energy from large groups, but it's the activity rather than the socialising that I like. Gifted with rhetoric.
    • Short-tempered; tendency to get into arguments. Tend to complain about small matters (usually people's stupidity, or things not working properly). Or incompetent teachers.
    • Not always aware of people's feelings / emotions.
    • Grasp theories quickly, but have little patience with theoreticians who deny the existence of the real world / objectivity / reason.
    • Greatest fear is of not achieving my potential. Worried that I'm running out of time.
    • Tend to plan ahead.
    • Lists, charts, graphs, timetables.


    Reasons why ENTJ doesn't fit:
    • Can be nervous & shy. Not always sure of myself. As a kid, I was very confident; thought my natural place was centre stage; lead roles in school plays, inspiring crowds; class president in primary school... Changed countries several times in school; in high school, I was a social outsider, & thought of myself as weird & incompetent.
    • Career indecision. My intention since primary school has been to become a TV producer / script-writer. If I were living in the UK, this would be easy; unfortunately, I'm living in Australia, which specialises in kitchen sink drama & soap operas (neither of which interest me in the slightest). I've spent the decade since leaving school building up skills to get to the UK (Honours in English & History, M.Phil. in English), intending to get a scholarship to do a Ph.D., & simultaneously do a TV production / script-writing course. BUT I realised that I wasn't well suited for academe as a career - too many half-baked theoreticians who rely far more on theory & political outrage than on evidence; too isolated. (Why didn't I do Drama in high school? Because I got Cs in Year 10 - working with people who didn't put in effort - & decided my marks weren't good enough.) I've also drifted from contract job to contract job in the public service; I can do the work easily, but it's tedious, not the best use of my abilities, & I don't like being a cog in the machine. The fact that I've suffered from stress-related chronic fatigue & anxiety for much of that time makes things worse; I've looked for safe environments (which produces stress & reinforces self-doubt). Basically, I'm stuck in a loop thinking that I haven't achieved any of the things I should have done by now & that therefore I'm a failure.
    • Highly imaginative. SF&F; murder mysteries; humorous novels. More interested in history & literature (so long as it's not introspective angst or nihilism) than business or economics.
    • Natural talent for writing comedy. Witty; puns & wordplay. A ham actor. Highly sardonic sense of humour.
    • Absent-minded & clumsy.


    Now, what about a Q&A session?

    I understand that it's possible to type people based on their appearance & mannerisms. If it would help, I can post photographs of myself. Naked. With an avocado.

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    lol you obsessed with this shit, post pics

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    i would guess LSE at this point but i hate trying to type from lists and i'd probably have a better idea if you stuck around and socialized casually.

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    Ye, sounds a bit LSEish but that's just a lot of text so I can be wrong.

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    LSE? Um, no. I'm definitely not a Sensor! Have I not hands, organs, senses, dimensions, affections, passions? Answer: no. I lost my hands & organs ina horrible accident adrift on the high seas in a typhoon in the year 1784. (I always travel by typhoon.) My brain was scooped out of my head, and put in an icebox until Dr. Ephraim von Schnertz, the celebrated Austrian cyberneticist, managed to build a robotic body twenty years ago. Unfortunately, the body was cobbled together out of bits of household junk, so I have a typewriter for a head, a lawnmower for an arm, and a record needle for the other. In fact, pretty 'armless. (Let's pretend I didn't say that.) Next question, please.

    Pics? I'll put up a couple when I can figure out how this internet malarkey works. Or, better still, I'll upload a short (!) video to Youtube - when it's not 3 in the morning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boitsfortian View Post
    LSE? Um, no. I'm definitely not a Sensor! Have I not hands, organs, senses, dimensions, affections, passions? Answer: no. I lost my hands & organs ina horrible accident adrift on the high seas in a typhoon in the year 1784. (I always travel by typhoon.) My brain was scooped out of my head, and put in an icebox until Dr. Ephraim von Schnertz, the celebrated Austrian cyberneticist, managed to build a robotic body twenty years ago. Unfortunately, the body was cobbled together out of bits of household junk, so I have a typewriter for a head, a lawnmower for an arm, and a record needle for the other. In fact, pretty 'armless. (Let's pretend I didn't say that.) Next question, please.
    ?

    Pics? I'll put up a couple when I can figure out how this internet malarkey works. Or, better still, I'll upload a short (!) video to Youtube - when it's not 3 in the morning.
    ?

    I think it is your dual, lungs.

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    You couldn't possibly be such a cool type. I'm gonna go ahead and assign you to the ranks of INFp.
    SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype

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    Well, nothing you have said contradicts LIE. Your writing style could be used to support it, as well. You could also be trying to portray yourself as LIE and may be presenting yourself dishonestly, but assuming you are not, LIE seems fine. I encourage leaving room for doubt, though, as a general socionic rule.

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    You might be a LIE-Te Enneagram 3. I relatively relate to your own self-description, I'm more adventure-focussed rather than achievement focussed, but the behavioral traits you list are coincident with mine.

    You might also eventually be an ESE. Shortly speaking, EJ+positivism (thus democracy) should be pretty much taken for granted, given your own self-description.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by boitsfortian View Post
    LSE? Um, no. I'm definitely not a Sensor! Have I not hands, organs, senses, dimensions, affections, passions? Answer: no. I lost my hands & organs ina horrible accident adrift on the high seas in a typhoon in the year 1784. (I always travel by typhoon.) My brain was scooped out of my head, and put in an icebox until Dr. Ephraim von Schnertz, the celebrated Austrian cyberneticist, managed to build a robotic body twenty years ago. Unfortunately, the body was cobbled together out of bits of household junk, so I have a typewriter for a head, a lawnmower for an arm, and a record needle for the other. In fact, pretty 'armless. (Let's pretend I didn't say that.) Next question, please.

    Pics? I'll put up a couple when I can figure out how this internet malarkey works. Or, better still, I'll upload a short (!) video to Youtube - when it's not 3 in the morning.
    you could be lie and its a close second for me behind lse but a wacky stereotypically ne style description of why you must be an "n" isn't convincing to me. it was mostly the amount of detail in your op (like listing which classes you're taking) that seemed si creative but that doesn't necessarily prove anything either.

    what made you interested in socionics?

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    My mom is an ENTJ in MBTI, and shes Te-ILI in socionics.

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    Everything you said sounds like both ENTJ mbti and LIE socionics.

    I'm definitely both here and can say what you have described sounds perfectly normal and fits. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by force my hand View Post
    You couldn't possibly be such a cool type. I'm gonna go ahead and assign you to the ranks of INFp.
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    You might be a LIE-Te Enneagram 3. I relatively relate to your own self-description, I'm more adventure-focussed rather than achievement focussed, but the behavioral traits you list are coincident with mine.

    You might also eventually be an ESE. Shortly speaking, EJ+positivism (thus democracy) should be pretty much taken for granted, given your own self-description.
    Quote Originally Posted by Finale View Post
    Everything you said sounds like both ENTJ mbti and LIE socionics.

    I'm definitely both here and can say what you have described sounds perfectly normal and fits. :-)
    I have to say, I enjoy your predictability.

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    you could be lie and its a close second for me behind lse but a wacky stereotypically ne style description of why you must be an "n" isn't convincing to me. it was mostly the amount of detail in your op (like listing which classes you're taking) that seemed si creative but that doesn't necessarily prove anything either.
    Hmm. Interesting take on it. I actually focused on something else when saying he sounds a bit LSEish.

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    Why am I interested in Socionics? Largely because I'm trying to understand myself, & to work out what I should be doing with life, & what I need to be happy & fulfilled. (Money, travel, total world domination?) If I could be paid to tell stories, & be a really popular & successful writer, that would be ideal. I want work that engages the imagination, & lets me get energy from socialising. Teaching, perhaps, as a job - English,history, drama? Certainly, improv acting is the most fun I've had in years.

    Right-ho! Videos of me:
    Intro:

    http://youtu.be/H_Tbnq9sNqI



    My rather warped sense of humour: [
    http://youtu.be/vHtNTJWUwzc

    (demonology, Freudian psychology, philosophy & cod German accents - hurrah!)


    Shakespeare comedy monologue:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35PkRLp4ThA&f




    (Recorded on my mobile phone, which is why picture quality isn't brilliant. Mea culpa!)

    Obviously I have far too much time on my hands. And speaking of which: I had no idea that I talked so much with them. It looks like I'm hula dancing, or about to fling myself across the room!

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    Bwahahahhahaha!

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    You're cool. I would wanna be your friend if we were real 'n' stuff.

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    idk, after seeing the videos i'm thrown for a loop. i have a fair amount of experience with LSEs and you don't come across like them at all. i have very little experience with LIEs and i think your body language corresponds with what is said about Si polr on paper.

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    ILE maybe, your J/P ambiguity has me thinking you could be a P type.

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    Thanks! We're not real?

    OK. Judging or Perceiving.
    J: I respect deadlines, don't leave work to the last moment, organise activities, write lists, schedules & itineraries, plan structure of stories & essays before writing, like a reasonably structured environment, have folders & notebooks of organised information, & sort my shelves - all of which are J traits.

    P: I have the ENTP sense of humour, like variety, being able to use my wit, creativity & imagination, can be messy, scatter-brained, & impulsive, & want to do a lot of different things with my life. ENTJs can have an absurdist sense of humour - look at John Cleese & Peter Sellers.

    Si as vulnerable function would suggest LIE or EIE. OK, so Si PoLR means:
    Lessened interest in short-term, physical goals / pleasures. (Academic achievement more important than partying?)
    Lack of concern for small aesthetic details.
    Ignoring health problems until they interfere with life (focus on health --> hypochondria); strongly avoids germs.

    How would Si PoLR affect sport & aesthetics? I'm not good at sport (except swimming & hiking - poor coordination); generally unaware of fashion; & more interested in books & music than art or sculpture. Whatare the characteristics of Fi PoLR?

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    You are not very much like me on video, you're really hyper, but that might have nothing do to with type specifically. You do like bright clothes (like I do) and don't like ironing them
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I can buy Ni-ENTj.

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    ENTj....

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    oh, your videos make me smile! you seem like a good & cool person.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boitsfortian View Post
    Thanks! We're not real?

    OK. Judging or Perceiving.
    J: I respect deadlines, don't leave work to the last moment, organise activities, write lists, schedules & itineraries, plan structure of stories & essays before writing, like a reasonably structured environment, have folders & notebooks of organised information, & sort my shelves - all of which are J traits.

    P: I have the ENTP sense of humour, like variety, being able to use my wit, creativity & imagination, can be messy, scatter-brained, & impulsive, & want to do a lot of different things with my life. ENTJs can have an absurdist sense of humour - look at John Cleese & Peter Sellers.


    BTW, many people type John Cleese/Peter Sellers ENTp. I would say situational absurdist comedy like Monty Python is considered Alpha in socionics. You've named dropped a lot of what people would view as Alpha types, like Dumas in the other thread and John Cleese here.

    Dumas is basically the archetype for ISFp and dual to ENTp and conflictor with ENTj.

    Quote Originally Posted by boitsfortian View Post
    Si as vulnerable function would suggest LIE or EIE. OK, so Si PoLR means:
    Lessened interest in short-term, physical goals / pleasures. (Academic achievement more important than partying?)
    Lack of concern for small aesthetic details.
    Ignoring health problems until they interfere with life (focus on health --> hypochondria); strongly avoids germs.
    polr and ds can both be hypochondriac and/or ignore health problems. They go about it a bit differently, but each situation can be specific.
    One is a conscious function and the other is a unconscious function. I would say all NT's can go for achievement vs partying. IMO, the reasons that don't fit would fit ILE too.

    Quote Originally Posted by boitsfortian View Post
    How would Si PoLR affect sport & aesthetics? I'm not good at sport (except swimming & hiking - poor coordination); generally unaware of fashion; & more interested in books & music than art or sculpture. Whatare the characteristics of Fi PoLR?
    Awareness of aesthetic details and fashion is a learned trait and I think all NT's can be a bit oblivious unless exposed. I see these as S and F things primary and N secondary, with T being often in opposition to style in favor of utility.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=39370

    Fi-polr discussion here.

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    Your personality is like crack. You remind me, a bit, of a classmate from some years back who I easily typed as LIE. Another NT type is possible, too (for you).

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    Quote Originally Posted by boitsfortian View Post
    Right-ho! Videos of me:
    Intro:

    http://youtu.be/H_Tbnq9sNqI
    I think you and I would get along swimmingly.
    SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype

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    Your video totally seals it in my mind that you are LIE. Welcome to Gamma, brother.

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    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 05-12-2012 at 07:33 AM.

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    Well, everyone seems unanimous that I'm a LIE. Great - and thank you! Well, that makes sense. Aspects of ENTJ behaviour had seemed familiar (reading at 4, public speaking, love of theatre); but since I have no burning desire to conquer Poland, or to be a CEO, I'd thought I must be ENxP.

    That would explain why I had the confidence to stand up and ask questions in the middle of a crowded theatre in preschool, & sometimes got into power struggles with primary school teachers (even when I liked them)!

    And why I found a university class full of Post-Modernists bloody frustrating. Have you ever tried to argue with people who insist on radical subjectivity, believe that everything is a linguistic construct, & that reason & objectivity are tools of Western cultural imperialism? English departments are full of people who say that there's no such thing as an author (only the author-function, through which language operates to produce the text), that the text is independent of the author's personality & experience, & that anybody's interpretation of a work is as good as anybody else's. I tried to refute their claim by invoking Shaw (whose prefaces are longer than the plays). This, I was told, is merely the author's opinion, & shouldn't be "privileged" over the critic's. No, it was his expressed intention! By that logic, they could claim that Mein Kampf was a warm-hearted children's story in the line of Hans Christian Andersen. (Must...not...rant.)

    Now off to plan world domination! Or, failing that, teaching degree --> move to UK --> course in TV production.

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    Can I get subtitles, I think we might share a type.
    I beleve I'd look like that talking to my phone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boitsfortian View Post
    Well, everyone seems unanimous that I'm a LIE. Great - and thank you! Well, that makes sense. Aspects of ENTJ behaviour had seemed familiar (reading at 4, public speaking, love of theatre); but since I have no burning desire to conquer Poland, or to be a CEO, I'd thought I must be ENxP.

    That would explain why I had the confidence to stand up and ask questions in the middle of a crowded theatre in preschool, & sometimes got into power struggles with primary school teachers (even when I liked them)!

    And why I found a university class full of Post-Modernists bloody frustrating. Have you ever tried to argue with people who insist on radical subjectivity, believe that everything is a linguistic construct, & that reason & objectivity are tools of Western cultural imperialism? English departments are full of people who say that there's no such thing as an author (only the author-function, through which language operates to produce the text), that the text is independent of the author's personality & experience, & that anybody's interpretation of a work is as good as anybody else's. I tried to refute their claim by invoking Shaw (whose prefaces are longer than the plays). This, I was told, is merely the author's opinion, & shouldn't be "privileged" over the critic's. No, it was his expressed intention! By that logic, they could claim that Mein Kampf was a warm-hearted children's story in the line of Hans Christian Andersen. (Must...not...rant.)

    Now off to plan world domination! Or, failing that, teaching degree --> move to UK --> course in TV production.
    Some of the behaviors you describe are not ENTj-specific. Just by way of comparison, I'm not ENTj and read well at age 3 and was fearless about public speaking and other modes of performance from a very young age, got into power struggles (though not ill-natured ones, I don't think) with teachers early on, etc. I also was an English major and was exposed to some of the same post-modernist garbage you've complained about here, and I'm supposedly not Te-valuing and I do not agree with it. The notion of questioning, for example, authorial intention has value if you have ever been around a professor who is old enough to teach that there is only one correct interpretation of a text, and that said interpretation follows from the author's intention. But that does not mean we must disallow any consideration of intent. And it's well recognized that someone who is at all expert about a particular author will of course know too much about that author's life and aims to play dumb and consider the work only in isolation. This is all stuff built upon foundations of the New Criticism, and it's quite freaking old by now.

    Rather, the point imo should be to question things once taken for granted. How do we know the author's intention for certain? He/she doesn't always leave a record of it, and also may make conflicting statements about what a work means or openly change his/her opinion on the matter. And as for years I have worked with authors in a professional capacity, my experience has been that they can't--of course--always anticipate what readers find in their output. So my take on it is that the author's intentions do matter, and so do many other things, particularly keeping in mind that the very notion of an author is one that is historically somewhat specific.

    At any rate, I'm sorry to note that your profs are still teaching postmodernism in an hidebound or unquestioning way, since the vanguard of critical thought so far as I know does question postmodernism's assumptions and seeks to restore some common sense.

    As for my overall point, you could be ENTj, I just wouldn't tie into that status all the things you seem to be associating with it.
    Last edited by golden; 05-12-2012 at 06:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boitsfortian View Post
    Well, everyone seems unanimous that I'm a LIE. Great - and thank you! Well, that makes sense. Aspects of ENTJ behaviour had seemed familiar (reading at 4, public speaking, love of theatre); but since I have no burning desire to conquer Poland, or to be a CEO, I'd thought I must be ENxP.

    That would explain why I had the confidence to stand up and ask questions in the middle of a crowded theatre in preschool, & sometimes got into power struggles with primary school teachers (even when I liked them)!

    And why I found a university class full of Post-Modernists bloody frustrating. Have you ever tried to argue with people who insist on radical subjectivity, believe that everything is a linguistic construct, & that reason & objectivity are tools of Western cultural imperialism? English departments are full of people who say that there's no such thing as an author (only the author-function, through which language operates to produce the text), that the text is independent of the author's personality & experience, & that anybody's interpretation of a work is as good as anybody else's. I tried to refute their claim by invoking Shaw (whose prefaces are longer than the plays). This, I was told, is merely the author's opinion, & shouldn't be "privileged" over the critic's. No, it was his expressed intention! By that logic, they could claim that Mein Kampf was a warm-hearted children's story in the line of Hans Christian Andersen. (Must...not...rant.)

    Now off to plan world domination! Or, failing that, teaching degree --> move to UK --> course in TV production.
    I was going to ask, have you considered ILE? why or why not?

  33. #33

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    Oh, hell! I thought it had been confirmed that I was LIE.
    Reasons for being ILE: possible Ne (?).
    Reasons for not being: not an inventor; not good at visual/spatial intelligence, mechanics
    Reasons why LIE is more likely: see above

    My objection to post-modernism is this: I'm allergic to dogma, across the political & religious spectrum. People who substitute ideology for thought "twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts". Quite frankly, it's intellectually dishonest.

    Postmodernists claim that there is no such thing as objectivity, truth or knowledge, and it is "naive" to insist on evidence or facts. Instead, they approach everything from a resolutely political angle: texts must be deconstructed to reveal the underlying power structures imposed by the gynophobic androcentric bourgeois heterocracy. Everything is culturally relative - or, rather, we can't possibly comment on any other culture, except Western civilisation, which is supremely guilty. So let's hang our ancestors, and undo the damage wrought by the Enlightenment! The Enlightenment was a tyranny of reason that led directly to the Holocaust, while science is the tool of European cultural imperialism. (For examples, see: http://richarddawkins.net/articles/8...rnism-disrobed.) Having dismissed science as a tool of the evil Western capitalist running dogs, academics can get down to the serious business of "positing the airport as an exemplary in-between space in which the nowhere/anywhere modes of cosmopolitanism are performed", or lecturing on Heidegger's Dasein, The-they, James Joyce, the gendering of time, Sigmund Freud, & the female penis, with the words "f--k" and "c--t" thrown in at random intervals, apparently to keep the audience on their toes. Academics are writing about frivolous topics, puffed up with neologisms and false Latinisms to disguise the paucity of their reasoning; they are not interested in communicating, or in adding to the sum of human knowledge, only in making themselves look clever. It is intellectual masturbation pure and simple.

    Given that a university is traditionally an institution for the dissemination of knowledge, what, then, is its point? Largely, it seems, to be a place where academics can be paid money for turning students into socially conscious activists who feel terribly guilty about all the dreadful things white males have done throughout history. Social conscience: ten out of ten. Intelligence: minus a billion. Oh, brilliant, we've argued ourselves out of a job. "Don't be heavy. Money is, like, the root of all evil, man. Stick it to the system! Now pass me a reefer."

    And I find myself in the position of stating the bleeding obvious. Certain things are objectively true, others are not. The real world exists, independent of my consciousness. The individual exists. Reason is the best way of understanding the universe. Theories should be judged against evidence, NOT the other way round. Bah!

  34. #34
    fka lungs ashlesha's Avatar
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    lol, yeah, you're probably lie.

    are you considering ile for any other reason besides a couple people suggesting it?

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    If you might be an LIE, but a strange one. The way you communicate and write is quite different to mine.
    ILE is quite probable too.

    Why you don't go to wikisocion, read a bit, and decide if you are valuing (Ni/Se or Ne/Si) and your quadra.. This will help you deciding your type.

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    Hola and welcome to the forum.

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    Videos say "private" for me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by boitsfortian View Post
    Hello! I'm here because I want to confirm my personality type. I've done several tests, and score ENTJ / LIE. The Socionics descriptions describe me better than the MBTI version, which seems to assume that all ENTJs are square-jawed captains of industry, gung-ho military commanders, or megalomaniacal dictators. (Of course, I have written a five page manifesto for how the world should be run.)

    PersonalityMax report:
    E: 63%
    N: 68%
    T: 68%
    J: 53%
    like the test says:
    E: 63%
    N: 68%
    T: 68%
    J: 53%

    not E:100%
    N: 100%
    T: 100%
    J: 100%

    16 types to generalize a population of 7 billion in the world (stats from Phalathate) is a good start but cannot be exact for each individual person traits for ENTJ's are only a generalization, part of you that is your F in addition to a history of growing up in a writing comedy and funny things, or simply hanging out with funny people MAY contribute to your "natural talents"

    Also, personality types are more like nature.. your environment you were brought up in and experience you've gained impact your personality. --> you say that you can be nervous & shy... I'm nervous and shy all the time, especially as a child, I'm an Extrovert type. Over the years.. i've learned how to talk to people better and after giving more and more presentations and speeches in front of an audience, I became more competent. Had I not done that... I would still be nervous. Weird how you said as a kid you were confident though..

    Maybe you are going through an anxious stage in your life Who knows.. you will know prob more than any of us. and whoever said obsessed was right lmao, you seem pretty serious in this and knowing what type you are.. yes you are ENTJ. You fit that type more than any.. so even if you're not 100% ENTJ.. the closest % out of the 16 types you're gonna get is ENTJ.. so you ARE an ENTJ. You are DEFINATELY close to 100% J btw.. from the way you are talking.

    I can see a little F in your but still you are mostly T. Thats all.. try doing Ennaegram tests.. thats your best bet if you want to know more about yourself.

    Sorry if you cant follow along what I said.. I'm a P lmao.. Goodluck figuring yourself out!

    Cheers
    -Jason

    P.S. welcome to the forum!

    P.S.S. dont bother with pictures.. VI is shit at determining your type. I made a thread few weeks back and posted like 10 of my pictures.. and had like 10 different typings.(then again, I was told my facial expression was the same in every pic) . all different.. if you want more justification for your ENTJness post a 15 minute video of yourself talking like you would normally talk to a person preferably..or as close as that as possible.

    -Jason

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