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Thread: Is it possible for LII to be E4?

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    Default Is it possible for LII to be E4?

    I have a friend whose type I've been unsure of for some time. My instinct was to type him as LII, and every time I think about it carefully, I still come back to that. However, he lacks the normal "dryness" of LII--like his melancholy and reserved wit has some kind of "wet" nuance to it (using the language that Naranjo employs to describe the difference between 4's and 5's.) And when I talk to him, it seems that the classic 4 envy is a big part of his psyche, although he does try to rationalize it away. For a while I considered beta NF, although it really just didn't fit. He would be the most charming LII I've ever met, although if I think about it carefully, he never actually uses Fe and is actually quite logical and reserved in conversation. He is gay and astonishingly beautiful though, so maybe throughout his life he's had ample opportunities to build up his charm since people instinctively like him based on his looks.

    I would type him as a 4w5 or 5w4 sp/sx, but am actually leaning a bit toward the 4. Has anyone else encountered an LII E4? Are they rare and beautiful birds, or mystical creatures that don't exist except in the heads of SEI 4w3? (haha) Or is it just that 5w4's feel a lot more "instinctive" and "emotional" than 5w6? Would appreciate any feedback.

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    It seems plausible.

    Jung's description of Introverted Thinking parallels some tendencies in 4's. I think most introverted types can be fours.

    "so in the latter case introverted thinking shows a dangerous tendency to coerce facts into the shape of its image, or by ignoring them altogether, to unfold its phantasy image in freedom. In such a case, it will be impossible for the presented idea to deny its origin from the dim archaic image. There will cling to it a certain mythological character that we are prone to interpret as 'originality', or in more pronounced cases' as mere whimsicality; since its archaic character is not transparent as such to specialists unfamiliar with mythological motives."
    The end is nigh

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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    just throwing it out there, because your description reminds me of someone i know - maybe he's EII or something? not to say that the existence of an LII 4 is necessarily impossible; i don't really have an opinion.
    Last edited by glam; 05-03-2012 at 06:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    just throwing it out there, because your description reminds me of someone i know - maybe he's EII or something? not to say that existence an LII 4 is necessarily impossible; i don't really have an opinion.
    Hmm. I think it's possible. I'd briefly considered that previously, but felt that he didn't resemble other EII's I've known (have gotten good at determining them over time.) But maybe he's just got a really strong Ti role. Also, in all the conversations I've had separately with him and his ILE boyfriend, it's always seemed like he loves the ILE more than the ILE loves him. But I suppose that could be the supervisee pulling away and the supervisor angsting.

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    Darn Socks DirectorAbbie's Avatar
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    Yes.

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    Creepy-pokeball

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    Ive met one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae View Post
    Ive met one.
    What was he like?

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Seems more plausible than EII 4s to me, and there seem to be some of them, so...
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    ...
    Last edited by willekeurig; 05-18-2012 at 12:59 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
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    &papu silke's Avatar
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    There is nothing really about any of the types that would contradict being a 4. Imo it is one of the more ubiquitous e-types like 3 or 9.

    I think Jack White might be an example of an LII 4, only he is probably sx/sp rather than sp-primary. From his interviews the reactive triad seemed fitting making either 4 or 6 be the most likely choices. There is something very emotionally tortured about his music and lyrics suggestive of longing and melancholy that makes type 4 seem like a better fit for him than a 6.

    edit: ahahaha! cracked even has a flowchart for his style

     




    Last edited by silke; 05-03-2012 at 10:08 PM.

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    Aw, thanks so much for the responses.

    I'm becoming increasingly more convinced that this person may be an EII-Ne. I guess I didn't think he was b/c he seems to appreciate my input more than other EII's I've interacted with in the past, but the more I think about it the more EII becomes plausible.

    Agarina, I think it's adorable that your little bro might be a social charmer LII! That makes me happy for all the LII's of the world. Just from the pics though, he seems to VI more LIE? (He just doesn't give me that Se-PoLR vibe!!) Not to be annoying about someone you know intimately who I don't know at all.

    Siuntal, I'm not at all convinced that Jack White is logical. I think he might be some sort of NF? Not to say that type 4 can't be universal.

    edit: Love the flowchart, btw.

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    &papu silke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    Siuntal, I'm not at all convinced that Jack White is logical. I think he might be some sort of NF? Not to say that type 4 can't be universal.
    If you read his interviews he has this inability to evaluate his own inner states from personalized pov that many of the Ti-egos have (this is one of the reasons why they need Fe-egos to check in with them ) so I personally don't doubt that he is a Ti-ego type.

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    Last edited by willekeurig; 05-18-2012 at 01:00 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

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    ■■■■■■ Radio's Avatar
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    Nah, Jack White is some Se-ego. Look at dem intense eyes:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    He used to fall off from docks to the sea when he was little because he didn't notice they ended.
    That's really endearing, Agarina.

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    &papu silke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    Nah, Jack White is some Se-ego. Look at dem intense eyes:


    That's sx-primary if anything in combination with Hologprahic-Panoramic cognition (Jack White checks out as H-P by his speech semantics). H-P types tend to stare right at something as if they can see into its core. This in combination with being sx-primary can yield a very intense look.

    Check out Gotye's gaze, also H-P (Fi-ENFp), also sx-primary:




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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae View Post
    Ive met one.
    A total douche, like the majority of the rare granola types in Idaho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    That's sx-primary if anything in combination with Hologprahic-Panoramic cognition (Jack White checks out as H-P by his speech semantics). H-P types tend to stare right at something as if they can see into its core. This in combination with being sx-primary can yield a very intense look.

    Check out Gotye's gaze, also H-P (Fi-ENFp), also sx-primary:

    [images]
    Hm, funny, I don't see the same thing in Gotye, which makes me think maybe we're seeing two different things.

    (I might come back to this when I have more time + energy.)

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    &papu silke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    Hm, funny, I don't see the same thing in Gotye, which makes me think maybe we're seeing two different things.

    (I might come back to this when I have more time + energy.)
    Possibly. Afaik intensity in eyes has nothing to do with being Se-valuing. That piercing, direct, center-lock stare is common for the H-P types, which includes IEEs and LIIs. Gotye is doing a bit of squinting as a Fi-creative, irrational type, but here's a picture of Tom Waits in comparison, who is usually typed as LII, or Ne-ego at least. Like Jack White he is looking straight-on with a sharp focus, as if he has grasped you as a whole and is trying to penetrate to the very center (to your weakest link):


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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    That's sx-primary if anything in combination with Hologprahic-Panoramic cognition (Jack White checks out as H-P by his speech semantics). H-P types tend to stare right at something as if they can see into its core. This in combination with being sx-primary can yield a very intense look.

    Check out Gotye's gaze, also H-P (Fi-ENFp), also sx-primary:



    Gotye's eye's are unfocused on the object, Jack White's are totally focused on the object.

    Jack White seems ESI

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    Possibly. Afaik intensity in eyes has nothing to do with being Se-valuing. That piercing, direct, center-lock stare is common for the H-P types, which includes IEEs and LIIs. Gotye is doing a bit of squinting as a Fi-creative, irrational type, but here's a picture of Tom Waits in comparison, who is usually typed as LII, or Ne-ego at least. Like Jack White he is looking straight-on with a sharp focus, as if he has grasped you as a whole and is trying to penetrate to the very center (to your weakest link):

    Is it? Where did you read this or how did you arrive at this conclusion?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  22. #22
    &papu silke's Avatar
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    @Pookie - Gotye's type is irrational so yes his look would appear to be more defocused, lighter iris color also makes the eyes look less intense and Gotye's eyes are quite murky

    @Gilly - Just observing people and taking note of some of the eye movements. There was some commentary about it on russian forums, too, and if several people independently make the same observation then there might be something to it. There was also a mention in one of the articles I've read that when H-P types attack they go right for the center, trying as if to steamroll their opposition.

    Btw his was one of the cues that gave Aqua away when he was experimenting with his typing trying to pose as a SLE. If you look carefully at the first video he posted you can see that his eyes are moving around in this sly, playful manner, not quite focusing on anything specific; this kind of look is described in profiles of ILE - The Seeker.

     


    Here is a video of a SLE guy for comparison, talking about various body language tactics one can implement in business negotiations. Notice how almost entire video he is looking directly ahead.

     


    He is overdoing somewhat for the effect, but this is something I've noticed with SLEs and other H-P types - sometimes they will stop and give you this piercing look like they are trying to see right to your center.

    and another demonstration of H-P 'stare', this one is from Filatova's ESI portraits


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    Killer of DJA's Fun fen's Avatar
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    Hitta is LII E4.
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


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