Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Is it possible for LII to be E4?

  1. #1
    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    emotionz
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    1,114
    Mentioned
    100 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Is it possible for LII to be E4?

    I have a friend whose type I've been unsure of for some time. My instinct was to type him as LII, and every time I think about it carefully, I still come back to that. However, he lacks the normal "dryness" of LII--like his melancholy and reserved wit has some kind of "wet" nuance to it (using the language that Naranjo employs to describe the difference between 4's and 5's.) And when I talk to him, it seems that the classic 4 envy is a big part of his psyche, although he does try to rationalize it away. For a while I considered beta NF, although it really just didn't fit. He would be the most charming LII I've ever met, although if I think about it carefully, he never actually uses Fe and is actually quite logical and reserved in conversation. He is gay and astonishingly beautiful though, so maybe throughout his life he's had ample opportunities to build up his charm since people instinctively like him based on his looks.

    I would type him as a 4w5 or 5w4 sp/sx, but am actually leaning a bit toward the 4. Has anyone else encountered an LII E4? Are they rare and beautiful birds, or mystical creatures that don't exist except in the heads of SEI 4w3? (haha) Or is it just that 5w4's feel a lot more "instinctive" and "emotional" than 5w6? Would appreciate any feedback.

  2. #2
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    POOPLAIR
    TIM
    Alpha NT 5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    4,399
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It seems plausible.

    Jung's description of Introverted Thinking parallels some tendencies in 4's. I think most introverted types can be fours.

    "so in the latter case introverted thinking shows a dangerous tendency to coerce facts into the shape of its image, or by ignoring them altogether, to unfold its phantasy image in freedom. In such a case, it will be impossible for the presented idea to deny its origin from the dim archaic image. There will cling to it a certain mythological character that we are prone to interpret as 'originality', or in more pronounced cases' as mere whimsicality; since its archaic character is not transparent as such to specialists unfamiliar with mythological motives."
    OPERATION POOPLAIR

    Now conscripting, for more information come here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...48#post1003048

  3. #3
    High Priestess glam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,388
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    just throwing it out there, because your description reminds me of someone i know - maybe he's EII or something? not to say that the existence of an LII 4 is necessarily impossible; i don't really have an opinion.
    Last edited by glam; 05-03-2012 at 07:34 AM.

  4. #4
    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    emotionz
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    1,114
    Mentioned
    100 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    just throwing it out there, because your description reminds me of someone i know - maybe he's EII or something? not to say that existence an LII 4 is necessarily impossible; i don't really have an opinion.
    Hmm. I think it's possible. I'd briefly considered that previously, but felt that he didn't resemble other EII's I've known (have gotten good at determining them over time.) But maybe he's just got a really strong Ti role. Also, in all the conversations I've had separately with him and his ILE boyfriend, it's always seemed like he loves the ILE more than the ILE loves him. But I suppose that could be the supervisee pulling away and the supervisor angsting.

  5. #5
    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Southwest USA
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    6,724
    Mentioned
    237 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yes.

    ESTj
    1w2 sp/so 1-2-6
    Brilliand's Younger Sister
    Squishy's Older Sister

    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  6. #6
    Creepy-pokeball

    Default

    Ive met one.

  7. #7
    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    emotionz
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    1,114
    Mentioned
    100 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae View Post
    Ive met one.
    What was he like?

  8. #8
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Seems more plausible than EII 4s to me, and there seem to be some of them, so...
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  9. #9
    . willekeurig's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,512
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ...
    Last edited by willekeurig; 05-18-2012 at 01:59 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

  10. #10
    silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    TIM
    Ni-IEI sx/sp
    Posts
    3,785
    Mentioned
    317 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    There is nothing really about any of the types that would contradict being a 4. Imo it is one of the more ubiquitous e-types like 3 or 9.

    I think Jack White might be an example of an LII 4, only he is probably sx/sp rather than sp-primary. From his interviews the reactive triad seemed fitting making either 4 or 6 be the most likely choices. There is something very emotionally tortured about his music and lyrics suggestive of longing and melancholy that makes type 4 seem like a better fit for him than a 6.

    edit: ahahaha! cracked even has a flowchart for his style

     




    Last edited by silke; 05-03-2012 at 11:08 PM.

  11. #11
    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    emotionz
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    1,114
    Mentioned
    100 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Aw, thanks so much for the responses.

    I'm becoming increasingly more convinced that this person may be an EII-Ne. I guess I didn't think he was b/c he seems to appreciate my input more than other EII's I've interacted with in the past, but the more I think about it the more EII becomes plausible.

    Agarina, I think it's adorable that your little bro might be a social charmer LII! That makes me happy for all the LII's of the world. Just from the pics though, he seems to VI more LIE? (He just doesn't give me that Se-PoLR vibe!!) Not to be annoying about someone you know intimately who I don't know at all.

    Siuntal, I'm not at all convinced that Jack White is logical. I think he might be some sort of NF? Not to say that type 4 can't be universal.

    edit: Love the flowchart, btw.

  12. #12
    silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    TIM
    Ni-IEI sx/sp
    Posts
    3,785
    Mentioned
    317 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    Siuntal, I'm not at all convinced that Jack White is logical. I think he might be some sort of NF? Not to say that type 4 can't be universal.
    If you read his interviews he has this inability to evaluate his own inner states from personalized pov that many of the Ti-egos have (this is one of the reasons why they need Fe-egos to check in with them ) so I personally don't doubt that he is a Ti-ego type.

  13. #13
    . willekeurig's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,512
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ...
    Last edited by willekeurig; 05-18-2012 at 02:00 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

  14. #14
    ■■■■■■ Radio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,574
    Mentioned
    153 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Nah, Jack White is some Se-ego. Look at dem intense eyes:


  15. #15
    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    emotionz
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    1,114
    Mentioned
    100 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    He used to fall off from docks to the sea when he was little because he didn't notice they ended.
    That's really endearing, Agarina.

  16. #16
    silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    TIM
    Ni-IEI sx/sp
    Posts
    3,785
    Mentioned
    317 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    Nah, Jack White is some Se-ego. Look at dem intense eyes:


    That's sx-primary if anything in combination with Hologprahic-Panoramic cognition (Jack White checks out as H-P by his speech semantics). H-P types tend to stare right at something as if they can see into its core. This in combination with being sx-primary can yield a very intense look.

    Check out Gotye's gaze, also H-P (Fi-ENFp), also sx-primary:




  17. #17
    Creepy-pokeball

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae View Post
    Ive met one.
    A total douche, like the majority of the rare granola types in Idaho.

  18. #18
    ■■■■■■ Radio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,574
    Mentioned
    153 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    That's sx-primary if anything in combination with Hologprahic-Panoramic cognition (Jack White checks out as H-P by his speech semantics). H-P types tend to stare right at something as if they can see into its core. This in combination with being sx-primary can yield a very intense look.

    Check out Gotye's gaze, also H-P (Fi-ENFp), also sx-primary:

    [images]
    Hm, funny, I don't see the same thing in Gotye, which makes me think maybe we're seeing two different things.

    (I might come back to this when I have more time + energy.)

  19. #19
    silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    TIM
    Ni-IEI sx/sp
    Posts
    3,785
    Mentioned
    317 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    Hm, funny, I don't see the same thing in Gotye, which makes me think maybe we're seeing two different things.

    (I might come back to this when I have more time + energy.)
    Possibly. Afaik intensity in eyes has nothing to do with being Se-valuing. That piercing, direct, center-lock stare is common for the H-P types, which includes IEEs and LIIs. Gotye is doing a bit of squinting as a Fi-creative, irrational type, but here's a picture of Tom Waits in comparison, who is usually typed as LII, or Ne-ego at least. Like Jack White he is looking straight-on with a sharp focus, as if he has grasped you as a whole and is trying to penetrate to the very center (to your weakest link):


  20. #20
    Pookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 6w5-9-2 So/Sx
    Posts
    2,127
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    That's sx-primary if anything in combination with Hologprahic-Panoramic cognition (Jack White checks out as H-P by his speech semantics). H-P types tend to stare right at something as if they can see into its core. This in combination with being sx-primary can yield a very intense look.

    Check out Gotye's gaze, also H-P (Fi-ENFp), also sx-primary:



    Gotye's eye's are unfocused on the object, Jack White's are totally focused on the object.

    Jack White seems ESI

  21. #21
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    Possibly. Afaik intensity in eyes has nothing to do with being Se-valuing. That piercing, direct, center-lock stare is common for the H-P types, which includes IEEs and LIIs. Gotye is doing a bit of squinting as a Fi-creative, irrational type, but here's a picture of Tom Waits in comparison, who is usually typed as LII, or Ne-ego at least. Like Jack White he is looking straight-on with a sharp focus, as if he has grasped you as a whole and is trying to penetrate to the very center (to your weakest link):

    Is it? Where did you read this or how did you arrive at this conclusion?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  22. #22
    silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    TIM
    Ni-IEI sx/sp
    Posts
    3,785
    Mentioned
    317 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Pookie - Gotye's type is irrational so yes his look would appear to be more defocused, lighter iris color also makes the eyes look less intense and Gotye's eyes are quite murky

    @Gilly - Just observing people and taking note of some of the eye movements. There was some commentary about it on russian forums, too, and if several people independently make the same observation then there might be something to it. There was also a mention in one of the articles I've read that when H-P types attack they go right for the center, trying as if to steamroll their opposition.

    Btw his was one of the cues that gave Aqua away when he was experimenting with his typing trying to pose as a SLE. If you look carefully at the first video he posted you can see that his eyes are moving around in this sly, playful manner, not quite focusing on anything specific; this kind of look is described in profiles of ILE - The Seeker.

     


    Here is a video of a SLE guy for comparison, talking about various body language tactics one can implement in business negotiations. Notice how almost entire video he is looking directly ahead.

     


    He is overdoing somewhat for the effect, but this is something I've noticed with SLEs and other H-P types - sometimes they will stop and give you this piercing look like they are trying to see right to your center.

    and another demonstration of H-P 'stare', this one is from Filatova's ESI portraits


  23. #23
    Killer of DJA's Fun fen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    TIM
    SEE-Fi 9w1 so/sx
    Posts
    1,148
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hitta is LII E4.
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •