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Thread: Using quadra values to determine type

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    Default Using quadra values to determine type

    Hi everyone,

    From out of nowhere, I decided to return to Socionics after a two year hiatus. Very soon after getting back into all this material, it suddenly dawned upon me that I have been potentially wrong all along about the type that I am, and want to see if I might be more on the right track.

    Last time I was here, my big debate was EII vs. EIE. I now think that I am actually neither of those types. More likely, I actually think that SEI is actually right.

    The main basis that I used to determine SEI is the fact that far and away, I can relate the most to the alpha quadra (above delta, beta, or even gamma). There is something about the innocent way of relating to others in a friendly, passionate, warm, and positive way in the manner that alpha is described that makes me think that it fits me better than the alternative quadra options.

    Looking at the quadra values, the type of receptive warmth (in sort of a buddy-like style) that represents happens to be right on for me. I can rule out ESE since I don't have nearly as much proactive, giver/caretaker energy, but rather my comes out in a friendly, open, not wanting to offend type of manner that appears to be classic for an SEI.

    Additionally, I am a Ph.D. level scientist who is in a career transition to become a science teacher (since I want to make a positive impact on others through my scientific knowledge/background). I can live in the world of the without necessarily being the greatest at generating theories and testing their validity. Yet, I love thinking like a scientist (by theorizing about interesting ideas). So I feel that I can complement the world of scientific ideas, and I love to delve in that information.

    More than anything else, I am very sensitive to being criticized or rejected by others. So I try to generally be the friendly, nice guy (in a positive sense) so that I am not generally rubbing anyone the wrong way. More than being dominantly , this type of receptive friendliness to me smacks of the dynamic. For a while, I would have never given any room to the possibility that I might be an S type. However, now, I think that it can totally work. I love an ease and flow of everyday interactions, and I love to live in a pleasurable world where everything is truly kick-back and relaxed. I am way more favoring an / dynamic than a / dynamic. I think that for this reason, beta and gamma simply don't fit in my case.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    OK...so I have just mentioned my rationale for SEI. Here is my question:

    Did I use a plausible typing method to determine my type? Obviously, I started off with seeing myself fitting well in the alpha quadra (more than delta [assuming EII] or beta [assuming EIE]), and I looked amongst the four alpha types to determine which one (with its set of functions, including PoLR, HA, etc.) fits me the best. From those four, SEI solidly wins. (By the way, I can totally relate to the -PoLR of having considerable trouble with being organized, efficient, pragmatic...Can also relate to the -HA of seeking to understand and to logically build concepts from the ground-up).

    So, to restate my question, is determining my type through the path of 'quadra values' a legit way to determine/confirm my own type as well as others' type? Or should I look again for suitable NF types in the manner that I previously thought fit me?

    I am becoming more and more able to see myself as an alpha-SF, and I'm glad that I have been able to 'free my mind' just enough to allow this possibility to emerge.

    Thanks for listening, and any feedback you have about this question (or my type determination), I would definitely appreciate it!

    Glad to be back!
    Mike
    Enneagram: 6w7 so/sx (Tritype: 6w7/9w1/2w3 or 6w7/9w1/3w2)

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    I don't believe quadras have any gestaltic qualities above and beyond what occurs when the types that compose it interact. Therefore a quadra would simply be the sum of its parts, and it is not worthwhile to dwell on the idea that one could type reliably based on them. That being said, if you really love RUSH as much as your avatar implies, then you are probably Alpha, seeing as the band is composed of 3/4 that quadra's types. I would not suggest typing by quadra as a general rule.
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    I disagree, I think looking at quadra values is a good way to start assessing one's type.

    I think what you described here (the two phrases taken together) is definitely consistent with an Fe-ego:
    More than anything else, I am very sensitive to being criticized or rejected by others. So I try to generally be the friendly, nice guy (in a positive sense) so that I am not generally rubbing anyone the wrong way.
    It isn't that Fi types arent' decent at this too, it's just that Fi types dont think of it this way. Instead of caring about rubbing anyone the wrong way, an Fi type might care more about being thought of as a kind, good person and to be thought of as a good friend. At least, per my understanding.

    So I agree, SEI seems to fit you pretty well!
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    Yeah, quadra values don't seem like a bad idea. You've got to know the IEs to be able to find your type anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I think what you described here (the two phrases taken together) is definitely consistent with an Fe-ego:


    It isn't that Fi types arent' decent at this too, it's just that Fi types dont think of it this way. Instead of caring about rubbing anyone the wrong way, an Fi type might care more about being thought of as a kind, good person and to be thought of as a good friend. At least, per my understanding.
    Not necessarily; I'm a definite ego with the same habit and motivation. The more I dislike someone, the less I become concerned with playing the nice guy, but I'll probably still care about how they view me. Open enemies is just a further progression; it's already out there that we don't like each other, so there is even less reason to play nice.
    Johari/Nohari

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    holy hell, you got 3/4 of Alpha quadra in that sig of yours alone haha

    Neil Peart - Ti-LII
    Geddy Lee - Ti-ILE
    Alex Lifeson - some Alpha SF

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I disagree, I think looking at quadra values is a good way to start assessing one's type.

    I think what you described here (the two phrases taken together) is definitely consistent with an Fe-ego:


    It isn't that Fi types arent' decent at this too, it's just that Fi types dont think of it this way. Instead of caring about rubbing anyone the wrong way, an Fi type might care more about being thought of as a kind, good person and to be thought of as a good friend. At least, per my understanding.

    So I agree, SEI seems to fit you pretty well!
    Your understanding is horribly over generalized.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Your understanding is horribly over generalized.
    Oh that was a gross over-simplification, i dont deny that at all...
    Just a gestalt i got, that's all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    Yeah, quadra values don't seem like a bad idea. You've got to know the IEs to be able to find your type anyway.



    Not necessarily; I'm a definite ego with the same habit and motivation. The more I dislike someone, the less I become concerned with playing the nice guy, but I'll probably still care about how they view me. Open enemies is just a further progression; it's already out there that we don't like each other, so there is even less reason to play nice.
    I dont see how this is any different from what i was trying to say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I dont see how this is any different from what i was trying to say.
    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post

    I think what you described here (the two phrases taken together) is definitely consistent with an Fe-ego:

    More than anything else, I am very sensitive to being criticized or rejected by others. So I try to generally be the friendly, nice guy (in a positive sense) so that I am not generally rubbing anyone the wrong way.
    It isn't that Fi types arent' decent at this too, it's just that Fi types dont think of it this way.
    Not necessarily. See below.

    Instead of caring about rubbing anyone the wrong way, an Fi type might care more about being thought of as a kind, good person and to be thought of as a good friend. At least, per my understanding.
    Sure, I seek to be thought of as a good person; that said, I treasure people who accept me despite my flaws far more than people who like me for my put-on politeness. But I don't do things just to be thought of as a good person or a good friend. I also do things because I don't want to rub people the wrong way, because they might then reject me - be it through criticism or through leaving me. So saying that not wanting to rub someone the wrong way due to possible rejection is is not necessarily accurate.
    Johari/Nohari

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    Not necessarily. See below.



    Sure, I seek to be thought of as a good person; that said, I treasure people who accept me despite my flaws far more than people who like me for my put-on politeness. But I don't do things just to be thought of as a good person or a good friend. I also do things because I don't want to rub people the wrong way, because they might then reject me - be it through criticism or through leaving me. So saying that not wanting to rub someone the wrong way due to possible rejection is is not necessarily accurate.
    Well true i mean i see your point, i also relate. I guess what i was trying to get at is that's not a defining characteristic you or I might think of when presenting who we are to people, which is what I thought the OP sorta did.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Default In my opinion

    You used the best method for determining type.

    The Si/Ne Ni/Se & Ti/Fe Te/Fi dichotomies (Decisive/Judicious - Merry/Serious) are the easiest things to type with a pretty high level of accuracy. But then again this is just my opinion on the matter.

    I find the differences between the introverted and extroverted form of the same function profound(Fe/Fi for example). And odds are you're not going to end up in the wrong quadra through that method, since each quadra is a mix of certain function values, and it's consistent through the whole quadra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    holy hell, you got 3/4 of Alpha quadra in that sig of yours alone haha

    Neil Peart - Ti-LII
    Geddy Lee - Ti-ILE
    Alex Lifeson - some Alpha SF
    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    I don't believe quadras have any gestaltic qualities above and beyond what occurs when the types that compose it interact. Therefore a quadra would simply be the sum of its parts, and it is not worthwhile to dwell on the idea that one could type reliably based on them. That being said, if you really love RUSH as much as your avatar implies, then you are probably Alpha, seeing as the band is composed of 3/4 that quadra's types. I would not suggest typing by quadra as a general rule.
    I find it very cool that all three members of RUSH are alpha. I have been a fan of theirs since the late '80s, and two elements that have absolutely attracted me to this band is a certain intellectual and energetic (especially in Neil's lyrics) and combo (showing up in the Geddy/Alex goofy dynamic) that exists here. While they don't feel as alpha to me as a group like "They Might Be Giants" might be, I still can see how Rush totally fits the alpha side of classic/progressive Rock. Love their music and totally can't wait for 'Clockwork Angels' to be released!

    I'm not sure how indicative the RUSH connection is to my own potential of being alpha. Maybe it implies that I relate very well to the style of music that they crank out. It has such a deep complexity for your typical rock band (especially with their funky time signatures, etc.) Whatever it is, I love all aspects of their music and I truly enjoy how they have changed so dramatically from album to album, while still retaining their technical excellence in all that they do (even as they are entering their 50s). While my potential alpha-ness may or may not relate to being a fan of the band, perhaps a certain connection between the two can be made.
    Mike
    Enneagram: 6w7 so/sx (Tritype: 6w7/9w1/2w3 or 6w7/9w1/3w2)

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    In a nutshell?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    It isn't that Fi types arent' decent at this too, it's just that Fi types dont think of it this way. Instead of caring about rubbing anyone the wrong way, an Fi type might care more about being thought of as a kind, good person and to be thought of as a good friend. At least, per my understanding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    Not necessarily; I'm a definite ego with the same habit and motivation. The more I dislike someone, the less I become concerned with playing the nice guy, but I'll probably still care about how they view me. Open enemies is just a further progression; it's already out there that we don't like each other, so there is even less reason to play nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    Sure, I seek to be thought of as a good person; that said, I treasure people who accept me despite my flaws far more than people who like me for my put-on politeness. But I don't do things just to be thought of as a good person or a good friend. I also do things because I don't want to rub people the wrong way, because they might then reject me - be it through criticism or through leaving me. So saying that not wanting to rub someone the wrong way due to possible rejection is is not necessarily accurate.
    This begs the question (that I have been seeing asked over and over again in the board archives) of how and would view this differently?

    How might the sensitivity, friendliness, and interpersonal receptiveness differ between, say, an EII and an SEI?

    I find this question incredibly poignant because I initially thought that I was an EII. However, now that I claim that SEI (and the alpha quadra) might fit better for me, I'm curious if I am on track or if I overlooked something.

    I find that my relationship to 'Feeling' has a lot of both and . On one hand, I am big on looking at external cues (whether one is happy, angry, sad, etc.) as a way that dictates a sense of OK-ness and a sense of feedback. This sounds very . On the flip side, I try to focus on being respectful, warm, etc.as a simple way of being/living life. This could be at play as well.

    (To add to the camp, I find myself to be very expressive and passionate in a place where I feel that it makes sense to do that. Let's say...at a rock concert or karaoke bar. In that case, I can let all my inhibitions go. In fact, my fav. songs to do karaoke are the ones that require a certain dynamic flavor (examples: Superstition [Stevie Wonder], Purple Rain [Prince], By the Way [Red Hot Chili Peppers], or Just a Gigolo [David Lee Roth]). The more dynamic the song, the more I like it. Even with all this stated, my modus operandi is probably not an dominant extroverted type. I still think that I have more of a reflective, introverted feel to me most of the time).

    So this difference (in sensitivity, receptiveness, friendliness) between a -creative introverted type vs. a dominant- type, and the corresponding nuances is definitely something that piques my interest. Any thoughts?
    Mike
    Enneagram: 6w7 so/sx (Tritype: 6w7/9w1/2w3 or 6w7/9w1/3w2)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    You used the best method for determining type.

    The Si/Ne Ni/Se & Ti/Fe Te/Fi dichotomies (Decisive/Judicious - Merry/Serious) are the easiest things to type with a pretty high level of accuracy. But then again this is just my opinion on the matter.

    I find the differences between the introverted and extroverted form of the same function profound(Fe/Fi for example). And odds are you're not going to end up in the wrong quadra through that method, since each quadra is a mix of certain function values, and it's consistent through the whole quadra.
    Thanks for your feedback here, and I find it resonating with my general feelings about this topic.

    From what I understand of Socionics, the relationship between types (and especially the quadras) are the linchpin of the typology. In other words, the focus on how specific people/types mesh or don't mesh appears to be core here. While I have wondered why there can't be an alpha type or an alpha type (and why by definition heads in a delta-ish direction, and how goes beta), I also think that the answer probably represent something inherent in how and team up, how and team up, and how and team up (which I may or may not understand perfectly right now).

    There is something about the open, receptive, passionate, goofy, fun-loving aspect of alpha that is bringing me to SEI. I am simply not as earthy (by default) as the main delta types (although I can be earthy as a backup style to my more lighthearted alpha preference).

    In order of preference, I lean
    alpha > delta > beta > gamma

    I hope that my logic here is on track in terms of how the Socionics theory (in terms of all IM elements and the 8 functions in their proper order) should be interpreted. Otherwise...it would be back to the drawing board....I hope not.
    Mike
    Enneagram: 6w7 so/sx (Tritype: 6w7/9w1/2w3 or 6w7/9w1/3w2)

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    its pretty normal for any adult who interacts in the "real world" to put on some politeness with strangers and acquaintances in order to avoid trouble. i wouldn't associate this with either element. i'd say with friendly Fe creatives i get more of a sense that they're trying to put themselves in my world and meet me on my terms and with friendly Fi bases i get more of a sense that they're still in their own world while they politiely feel me out and gauge how much mine aligns, so it might seem less blatantly nice. i think part of this is temperament, with IPs giving me a more receptive and flexible vibe and IJs being more reserved. i know this is vague, its just my general subjective impressions.

    sounds like you like and identify with alpha and sei and nothing contradicting that pops out at me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs
    i'd say with friendly Fe creatives i get more of a sense that they're trying to put themselves in my world and meet me on my terms and with friendly Fi bases i get more of a sense that they're still in their own world while they politiely feel me out and gauge how much mine aligns, so it might seem less blatantly nice.
    All of a sudden the word 'adaptability' comes to mind. So let me phrase the question a different way:

    Would you expect a -valuing type (and in my case, a -creative type) to be more adaptable to others' concerns/needs/wishes than a -valuing type?

    Or another way to ask it is whether is (or is not) more prone to people-pleasing than is?

    What do you think?
    Mike
    Enneagram: 6w7 so/sx (Tritype: 6w7/9w1/2w3 or 6w7/9w1/3w2)

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    I believe it is. Fe creates implicit contracts with people, whereby one person plays a role, and the other person reciprocates in kind. There is a fairness to Fe and a desire to maintain social harmony. Extraverted Feeling has a practical concern, unlike Fi, which is more abstract and inexpressible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesilb View Post
    All of a sudden the word 'adaptability' comes to mind. So let me phrase the question a different way:

    Would you expect a -valuing type (and in my case, a -creative type) to be more adaptable to others' concerns/needs/wishes than a -valuing type?
    In all of my experience (me being an Fe creative, and being raised in a household with many Fi base types) Yes. And i feel the e in Fe has alot to do with it.

    But that's not to say that Fi doesn't have its upsides as well.

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    As a quick update, I now realize that ESE/alpha is most likely my type/quadra. Feel free to browse this particular thread in light of this new information.
    Mike
    Enneagram: 6w7 so/sx (Tritype: 6w7/9w1/2w3 or 6w7/9w1/3w2)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesilb View Post
    As a quick update, I now realize that ESE/alpha is most likely my type/quadra. Feel free to browse this particular thread in light of this new information.
    Could you please make a list of 5 - 7 songs from u-tube which you like the most and always liked which you can listen to at any time nearly. You can comment if you wish on every piece of music you like ( what and why do you like it). And also the art - 3-5 pictures which you would enjoy to look at and put into your room, maybe something you always liked. Here.
    Last edited by Olga; 12-05-2012 at 07:43 AM.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    Mike
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    Mike
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    mikesilb - thannk you! will not be able to look into your usic until Friday - going away.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    Hi mikesilb,
    I listened to your music and I think that leading is TPE Ego. As regards to TPE profile I think that rationality is quite strongly evident that is why I would suggest Superego as a subtype TPE. I will need to listen again to have a second thought. Please, post your favourite pictures/artists here. I usually ask for pictures because in music and in pictures may be different subtype evident - it is similar but different criteria.
    And if you can make the temperament test which shows not just one leading temperament but a profile like choleric - sunguinic then please do it and post the results here. Temperament is also an important criteria.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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