the emperor has no clothes

[ashlesha]

ive noticed this motif lately in my life. like for example on the forum i don't really bother much arguing with people who already aren't taken seriously because its whatever and i don't feel like i have a job to do by calling them out. and what frustrates me more is when i feel like somebody SHOULD be taken issue with and other people just dont see the problem.

sometimes i'm a poor debater because i feel like what i'm seeing is just so obvious. so i fall back on silly arguments or emotional appeals because, duh, i'm already right, and the other person must KNOW this, since its TRUE, so its just a matter of getting them to admit it lol.

does anybody else relate to this? type related? ways to improve on this? please discuss.

[JWC3]

I like to have fun goading the Emperor every once and a while. I mean... He's naked and that's funny.

[Absurd]

like for example on the forum i don't really bother much arguing with people who already aren't taken seriously because its whatever and i don't feel like i have a job to do by calling them out. and what frustrates me more is when i feel like somebody SHOULD be taken issue with and other people just dont see the problem.

For me it is not the fact they aren't taken seriously by majority rule that makes me to not bother nor engage with such people. Sole fact I know their opinion clashes with mine when I know I'm right and they still seem to argue despite evidence to the contrary, just to save their sorry arses, is what actually prompts me to not take them seriously. That doesn't stop me from pointing out how and where they're wrong as long as long I had a good day.

[redbaron]

I don't like to argue.

but if I know I'm right and it matters somehow, I'll might say "I know I'm right" and walk away. No debate necessary. But usually I won't bother, and instead say nothing and walk away. But walking away is usually the next thing that happens. (or getting out of the thread, if it's here or on fb)

No, I take that back. I never say "I know I'm right". That's what I'm thinking. But I rarely say it out loud. I think I probably *communicate* that by walking away and refusing to debate the issue further. Or by putting the overall emotional atmosphere ahead of the issue at hand and just dropping it so we can move along with life.

[Ryan]

You are not right.

If you need to point something out then it's mostly likely in your imagination. Otherwise you would have accepted it and moved on.

[ashlesha]

You are not right.

If you need to point something out then it's mostly likely in your imagination. Otherwise you would have accepted it and moved on.

every time you feel the need to point out a wrong, it means that you are wrong? am i understanding you right? i'm sure there are times when i'm wrong but this rule seems so arbitrary.

[Ryan]

Does it?

What does publicizing a supposedly wrong act serve? Right. Validation. It means that you are not sure of your righteousness, and if you are not sure then you certainly don't know all the implications of said wrong. Your truth may as well been false.

What is left in your hand is nothing but a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[ashlesha]

Does it?

What does publicizing a supposedly wrong act serve? Right. Validation. It means that you are not sure of your righteousness, and if you are not sure then you certainly don't know all the implications of said wrong. Your truth may as well been false.

What is left in your hand is nothing but a self-fulfilling prophecy.

ha, gotcha. this is food for thought. i wouldnt go quite as far as you did about the implications of right/wrongness but the validation-seeking part rings true. i do think i'm right, but why do i care about convincing anyone? i'm not sure. but i do get this feeling like "nobody else gets it so am i crazy or something???" so maybe i'm not as sure as i think i am.

[redbaron]

Does it?

What does publicizing a supposedly wrong act serve? Right. Validation. It means that you are not sure of your righteousness, and if you are not sure then you certainly don't know all the implications of said wrong. Your truth may as well been false.

What is left in your hand is nothing but a self-fulfilling prophecy.

lol no. publicizing a supposedly wrong act can be to correct the other person's false information. For example, if you said "Joe was executed on Tuesday" and I knew for a fact that he was actually executed on Sunday (because I were there and witnessed it), saying so doesn't mean I'm not sure of my rightness. It means I AM sure of my rightness and I'm correcting your wrongness.

[ambivalent existence]

lol no. publicizing a supposedly wrong act can be to correct the other person's false information. For example, if you said "Joe was executed on Tuesday" and I knew for a fact that he was actually executed on Sunday (because I were there and witnessed it), saying so doesn't mean I'm not sure of my rightness. It means I AM sure of my rightness and I'm correcting your wrongness.

that one is about objective facts, not subjective judgment.

[JWC3]

lol no. publicizing a supposedly wrong act can be to correct the other person's false information. For example, if you said "Joe was executed on Tuesday" and I knew for a fact that he was actually executed on Sunday (because I were there and witnessed it), saying so doesn't mean I'm not sure of my rightness. It means I AM sure of my rightness and I'm correcting your wrongness.

I, executed?! WHY DIDN'T ANYONE TELL ME?! *vanishes in a puff of logic*

[Ryan]

lol no. publicizing a supposedly wrong act can be to correct the other person's false information. For example, if you said "Joe was executed on Tuesday" and I knew for a fact that he was actually executed on Sunday (because I were there and witnessed it), saying so doesn't mean I'm not sure of my rightness. It means I AM sure of my rightness and I'm correcting your wrongness.

That is a different situation.

What lungs is talking about is more like:

1. You saw Joe executed on Sunday.
2. Yet everyone is acting as if he was executed on Tuesday.

Capiche?

[redbaron]

That is a different situation.

What lungs is talking about is more like:

1. You saw Joe executed on Sunday.
2. Yet everyone is acting as if he was executed on Tuesday.

Capiche?

o i c

thanks for explaining. But still, in that situation, if I saw Joe executed on Sunday and everyone's acting as if he was executed on Tuesday, I'd want to find out why!

[golden]

Nah. I generally don't think I'm all that right about anything. That doesn't mean I always act like I think I'm wrong, but usually there are "what ifs" and "maybe nots" and "it's all relatives" sewn into all my thought processes. HOWEVER, I can still have a very strong reaction to something that leads me to behave in a certain way and that's hard to control or shake off. It's not unusual for me to say to my SO, for instance, "I know what I'm saying doesn't really make any logical sense, but I'm not sure how to get past this feeling all the same." Generally just being able to acknowledge that makes me start to feel better/clearer.