Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 89

Thread: am being contradicted

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default am being contradicted...

    and this is no BS... I don't like switching types for the fun of it or whatever. I try to focus on deeper things than the surface behaviours in descriptions but I run into issues with that too. so, I thought it would be interesting or constructive to write about contradictions that make me confused about my possible typing.

    if I'm assumed to be ILE - the idea of Si-seeking, Si valuing and Si helplessness is definitely false. and I'm not sure I'm Ne-valuing at all. (EP temperament and Ti-creative OK though.)

    if I'm assumed to be LSI - IJ temperament and Ti absoluteness as leading function is probably not right. (Fe DS may be OK though, cannot reject this idea atm. so in that case it would be IJ..)

    if I'm assumed to be SLE - Se absoluteness as leading function seems to be incorrect too. (EP temperament&Ti-creative is OK though, and Ni DS may be OK, haven't found anything against that.)

    if I'm assumed to be LIE - I'm Ti/Fe-valuer... or not?

    if I'm assumed to be some other type - what, which one? I'm even less like those other types.

    interesting riddle to me, which route of the five listed above should I take now to get closer to the solution?

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    btw here's in a nutshell how I determined what functions I value

    Ti > Te --- I need logical and spatial structure, efficiency comes second, and only comes up situationally when I'm doing tasks... though I do like to be productive, I like working towards goals, but the goals are not necessarily Te based, because the main focus for me is just achievement, not productivity.

    Fe > Fi --- I'm more interested in emotional states than in those vague relationship thingies.

    Ne ? Ni --- I'm not sure. I do like to know what direction I'm heading, so perhaps Ni valuing. (also because of Se valuing)

    Se > Si --- I absolutely cannot focus on body sensations for long, because it will "drain" me. even focusing on eating good food is impossible for me. I have to get at least mentally active.

  3. #3
    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,808
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    *chuckles* Your very restless about this.
    Easy Day

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    *chuckles* Your very restless about this.
    naah, it's on and off. I dont think of this all day =)

  5. #5
    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,808
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    naah, it's on and off. I dont think of this all day =)
    Well, would you like my honest assessment of you as opposed to us just discussing socionic ideas via PM?
    Easy Day

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    Well, would you like my honest assessment of you as opposed to us just discussing socionic ideas via PM?
    of course I'd like it =)

  7. #7
    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,808
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    of course I'd like it =)
    I think that you understand socionics surprisingly well for someone who is only recently picking it up. It's nice to see people not just immediately jump into the dogmatic asshole mentality that seems so pervasive here. That being said I think your intellectual understanding falls apart when you try to apply it to reality. This disconnect between your intellectual understanding and it's practical application is what's confusing you I think. You have a very obvious understanding of what Fe/Fi and Te/Ti are but when you try to pick out behavior that seems indicative of valuing one over the other it seems to me like you have a very narrow focus and it's causing you to make judgments about yourself that seem too hasty. In general I think you are too eager to make all of this make practical sense and this rushing is causing you to get fairly confused about what makes sense and what doesn't.

    I would describe this mentality as a bit frantic, but I doubt you feel the same as this rapid intellectual pace is something that you most likely bring to everything your involved in. It just seems quick to me, but is probably normal for you.

    With regards to your type, you know what I think and I'm more than happy to keep discussing it via PM but perhaps it will help to consider this;

    If Si values jump out at you as so readily contrary to your own nature and are the part of socionics that seems most contrary to yourself why not just consider Si PoLR as extremely viable?
    Easy Day

  8. #8
    Roro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    TIM
    6 sp
    Posts
    999
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    naah, it's on and off. I dont think of this all day =)
    Chat archives would suggest otherwise.

  9. #9
    "Cool Mafia Godfather" ~SLE Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    TIM
    ESTp 8
    Posts
    918
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    Se > Si --- I absolutely cannot focus on body sensations for long, because it will "drain" me. even focusing on eating good food is impossible for me. I have to get at least mentally active.
    Nonsense.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    I think that you understand socionics surprisingly well for someone who is only recently picking it up. It's nice to see people not just immediately jump into the dogmatic asshole mentality that seems so pervasive here. That being said I think your intellectual understanding falls apart when you try to apply it to reality. This disconnect between your intellectual understanding and it's practical application is what's confusing you I think. You have a very obvious understanding of what Fe/Fi and Te/Ti are but when you try to pick out behavior that seems indicative of valuing one over the other it seems to me like you have a very narrow focus and it's causing you to make judgments about yourself that seem too hasty. In general I think you are too eager to make all of this make practical sense and this rushing is causing you to get fairly confused about what makes sense and what doesn't.

    I would describe this mentality as a bit frantic, but I doubt you feel the same as this rapid intellectual pace is something that you most likely bring to everything your involved in. It just seems quick to me, but is probably normal for you.

    With regards to your type, you know what I think and I'm more than happy to keep discussing it via PM but perhaps it will help to consider this;

    If Si values jump out at you as so readily contrary to your own nature and are the part of socionics that seems most contrary to yourself why not just consider Si PoLR as extremely viable?
    well, yeah, I get some of the theory, but I haven't tried to practice it much, that's true. my interest is always theoretical first... I'm quick in most things, yes. (I'm not necessarily talking about bed behaviour! )

    yes Si could be PoLR. I have thought of this myself. I have two issues with this however;

    PoLR would mean I'm also very weak at it and it's a sore spot, but in practice it doesn't seem to be such a sore spot beyond my dislike to focus on these things. ...well, as for weakness, I can be clumsy at new physical tasks until practiced, and I need a lot of resolve to get myself to pay attention to daily tasks involving Si, so I minimize the time spent on them. all this could indicate PoLR weakness... not necessarily though. all it says to me is that it's devalued Si. perhaps you or someone else knows more on this matter.

    but aside that, I would also have to value Te/Fi and not Ti/Fe.. that's a bigger issue.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aerorobyn View Post
    Chat archives would suggest otherwise.


    btw, chat archives would show I hardly had time for this today. this is actually why I'm taking it to a forum thread, it takes less time this way. hopefully interesting exercise for the socionics experts, and perhaps other newcomes can learn too.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nonsense.

    what's nonsense about it? I'm really this way.

    the first time my ILE-ness was questioned by someone was when I mentioned I'm not interested in hedonism. (well it was also questioned because of how I prefer to be focused instead of being overly scattered..)

  13. #13
    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,808
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    but aside that, I would also have to value Te/Fi and not Ti/Fe.. that's a bigger issue.
    I tend to view the theory as a cohesive whole. I reject some parts like most of Gulenko's contributions but in general I think if one part makes sense and another doesn't because of that then I don't correctly understand the theory.
    Easy Day

  14. #14
    "Cool Mafia Godfather" ~SLE Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    TIM
    ESTp 8
    Posts
    918
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    what's nonsense about it? I'm really this way.

    the first time my ILE-ness was questioned by someone was when I mentioned I'm not interested in hedonism. (well it was also questioned because of how I prefer to be focused instead of being overly scattered..)
    You don't understand Se. If anything, Se is hedonism. Its the most stimulation seeking function. Both functions, Si and Se have to hedonism, the difference is that Si has to do more with relaxation and reveling in ones own comfort. Se has to do with intensity and actually being in the moment of the experience itself.

  15. #15
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,613
    Mentioned
    632 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    your entire time here has been spent shooting out random and contradicting snippets and ideas left and right and second-guessing every little thing. you have dominated the chatbox for more than a couple days with nothing but you saying one thing about yourself and then changing your mind and saying something different about yourself while people try to make sense of it and help you. and yet this entire time you feel comfortable with all these contradictions, resolving them philosophically by blending them together in some way or adopting a "its all true, contradictions are life mann" kind of attitude. you are entirely comfortable expecting other people to do things for you, like when i told you about links in the chatbox archive that you wouldnt even bother looking up yourself and you've said yourself that you expect other people to do caretaking things for you unless they can give you a "logical reason why they can't." i can't see you as anything other than ILE and it baffles me how anyone could see anything else.

  16. #16
    stray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    864
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    You don't understand Se. If anything, Se is hedonism. Its the most stimulation seeking function. Both functions, Si and Se have to hedonism, the difference is that Si has to do more with relaxation and reveling in ones own comfort. Se has to do with intensity and actually being in the moment of the experience itself.
    That sounds like mbti Se, but I haven't ran across that definition in socionics (model A at least). A lot of socionics Se seems to be a mix of MBTI Te and Se, with a focus on power, heirarchies, and acquisition. And Si can be intense. What's comfortable to Si types is subjective.

    Wikisocion:
    "Unlike Si which is about one's subjective sensory experience (how intense or enjoyable it is), Se is about achieving an object of desire. It gives one the ability to influence, bend, and push situations and people in order to achieve such an object, rather than to enjoy the situation one is in."

  17. #17
    Perpetual Confusion Machine PistolShrimp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Red Sox and Celtics and Bruins, oh my!
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    504
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You are ILE; I think you're just unaware of how you seek for whatever reason.

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    I tend to view the theory as a cohesive whole. I reject some parts like most of Gulenko's contributions but in general I think if one part makes sense and another doesn't because of that then I don't correctly understand the theory.
    well, the theory itself makes sense, but Si PoLR with Ti valuing doesn't. (and of course I'm not EIE)


    edit: you may have meant that I'm unclear about Ti vs Te, yeah? I'm certainly interested in how exactly you realized that you were Te/Fi valuing instead of Ti/Fe which you believed for a couple of years. that may provide some extra insight.
    Last edited by ambivalent existence; 04-30-2012 at 02:11 PM.

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    You don't understand Se. If anything, Se is hedonism. Its the most stimulation seeking function. Both functions, Si and Se have to hedonism, the difference is that Si has to do more with relaxation and reveling in ones own comfort. Se has to do with intensity and actually being in the moment of the experience itself.
    okay, by hedonism I meant the reveling in comfort stuff. I very much like being in the moment, but didn't know that was also considered hedonism. =)

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    your entire time here has been spent shooting out random and contradicting snippets and ideas left and right and second-guessing every little thing. you have dominated the chatbox for more than a couple days with nothing but you saying one thing about yourself and then changing your mind and saying something different about yourself while people try to make sense of it and help you. and yet this entire time you feel comfortable with all these contradictions, resolving them philosophically by blending them together in some way or adopting a "its all true, contradictions are life mann" kind of attitude. you are entirely comfortable expecting other people to do things for you, like when i told you about links in the chatbox archive that you wouldnt even bother looking up yourself and you've said yourself that you expect other people to do caretaking things for you unless they can give you a "logical reason why they can't." i can't see you as anything other than ILE and it baffles me how anyone could see anything else.
    it's interesting how subjective your view is with facts distorted in your memory. you have a viewpoint, so then you try to find facts supporting it, and discard what doesn't support it.

    you know, all this doesn't have to be Ne valuing, it could very easily be Ne PoLR too, trying to exclude the annoying amount of options.

    I do NOT feel comfortable with the contradictions in the theoretical analysis here. I never said "contradictions are life".

    as a human being, I can have different ways of behaviour, but that's not a contradiction. it all has a reason somewhere.

    I did bother searching, however I didn't bother searching for half an hour for something that I didn't find right away and someone else already had at hand.

    I did not say I was asking for caretaking things. just things in general.

  21. #21

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PistolShrimp View Post
    You are ILE; I think you're just unaware of how you seek for whatever reason.
    oh that would be too easy. but how about Ne devaluation? I don't value ideas for themselves in many cases. I prefer realization of things in one specific direction instead of just increasing number of ideas.

    btw I have been with people trying to take care of me and I didn't really feel the need for it. is it possible to not know what I'd like even after I experienced it?

    plus, all that nonsense about Si suggestive like how Ne people are unable to determine their physical states and willing to get advice regarding this from others. no, just no, that's not me.

  22. #22
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,613
    Mentioned
    632 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    as a human being, I can have different ways of behaviour, but that's not a contradiction. it all has a reason somewhere.
    i know. but saying something like "i hate si" and then five minutes later "i ignore si," or saying something like you did about your mother that i didnt like and then saying "oh well i didnt really mean that" and expecting me to take it at face value, or posting a video one day and then the next day saying you don't have any videos of yourself. your memory is as subjective as mine i guess. but TO ME it looks like you don't try to present any consistent threads. even your name is "ambivalent existence." what you verbalize and present to the world is endless options and not the elimination of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    I did bother searching, however I didn't bother searching for half an hour for something that I didn't find right away and someone else already had at hand.
    do you think somebody else had the links saved in their bookmarks? i doubt it. in all likelihood radio found the links by searching for them in the way i explained how to you. i would have had to search in the way i explained how to you. tbh thats when i was put off by you because of the complete ease you had in expecting me to do something for you that you could have done yourself with the same amount of effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    I did not say I was asking for caretaking things. just things in general.
    oh ok.

  23. #23

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    i know. but saying something like "i hate si" and then five minutes later "i ignore si," or saying something like you did about your mother that i didnt like and then saying "oh well i didnt really mean that" and expecting me to take it at face value, or posting a video one day and then the next day saying you don't have any videos of yourself. your memory is as subjective as mine i guess. but TO ME it looks like you don't try to present any consistent threads. even your name is "ambivalent existence." what you verbalize and present to the world is endless options and not the elimination of them.
    clearly a load of misunderstanding here. "hate" and "ignore" don't exclude each other. what I hate is too much passive comfy relaxation, and thus I ignore a few things related to that.

    as for my mother, you probably misunderstood that.

    I never said I don't have videos of myself. I didn't remember for a second that I linked the video publicly. I remembered afterwards though. nobody has a perfect memory ready to serve them without any errors in every and each moment.

    my nickname is just a fun name, not to be taken seriously at all.

    I don't like endless options, I want to select an option and fuck the rest, it's as simple as that. but it needs to be a satisfactory one, such as selecting a type without any serious contradictions.

    do you think somebody else had the links saved in their bookmarks? i doubt it. in all likelihood radio found the links by searching for them in the way i explained how to you. i would have had to search in the way i explained how to you. tbh thats when i was put off by you because of the complete ease you had in expecting me to do something for you that you could have done yourself with the same amount of effort.
    I didn't intend to offend you. the way it seemed to me, someone already got the links, and they were still accessible to them. if not, that's a different case obviously.

  24. #24
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,613
    Mentioned
    632 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    I don't like endless options, I want to select an option and fuck the rest, it's as simple as that. but it needs to be a satisfactory one, such as selecting a type without any serious contradictions.
    then show, don't just tell. you listing endless options and providing an exception to everything everyone puts forth is not showing what you're saying.

    i think maybe the reason people are actually considering absurd options like LSI for you is because they pay attention to what is told and not shown. what is shown is an ambiguity and mental restlessness that is far more compatible with ILE than any of the other types you're considering.

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    then show, don't just tell. you listing endless options and providing an exception to everything everyone puts forth is not showing what you're saying.

    i think maybe the reason people are actually considering absurd options like LSI for you is because they pay attention to what is told and not shown. what is shown is an ambiguity and mental restlessness that is far more compatible with ILE than any of the other types you're considering.
    I'm not listing options. I'm listing contradictions. how is a contradiction an option?

  26. #26
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,613
    Mentioned
    632 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    I'm not listing options. I'm listing contradictions. how is a contradiction an option?
    ILE, LIE, SLE, and LSI are options.

    reframing when you don't like what someone says about you is a form of presenting options.

  27. #27

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    ILE, LIE, SLE, and LSI are options.

    reframing when you don't like what someone says about you is a form of presenting options.
    all 16 types could be options, but I preferred to restrict it down to a few types, unlike a few other people. I would love to settle on one type without contradictions and thus never change that again.

    sure, disagreement can be interpreted as presenting another option. however, I would not tie this to Ne at all.

  28. #28
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,613
    Mentioned
    632 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    all 16 types could be options, but I preferred to restrict it down to a few types, unlike a few other people. I would love to settle on one type without contradictions and thus never change that again.
    i think everyone interested in socionics would prefer to have one type. its not really what you want but your way of going about achieving it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    sure, disagreement can be interpreted as presenting another option. however, I would not tie this to Ne at all.
    your most common strategy of disagreeing on the forum is saying that the person misunderstood and offering a different perspective with which to look at the same thing. the reframing comes across as kind of shifty and you're basically just telling people to have a different opinion about the same exact thing you're both looking at. other people disagree differently. the way you disagree is compatible with how i understand Ne.

  29. #29

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    i think everyone interested in socionics would prefer to have one type. its not really what you want but your way of going about achieving it.
    what other way is there other than finding and eliminating the contradictions and asking people who like analysing from the socionics viewpoint?

    I mean, I'm willing to believe you when you say there is another way, but what is it?


    your most common strategy of disagreeing on the forum is saying that the person misunderstood and offering a different perspective with which to look at the same thing. the reframing comes across as kind of shifty and you're basically just telling people to have a different opinion about the same exact thing you're both looking at. other people disagree differently. the way you disagree is compatible with how i understand Ne.
    people do tend to misunderstand each other. I didn't think Ne was about shifting perspectives about one single thing. as far as I understand, Ne is about taking several views and accepting all of them at once. I tend to stick to my own view unless I'm convinced by logical arguments but that may take a while. people do not like this about me in general and I believe your problem is this, and not any kind of "Ne-ness".

  30. #30
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,613
    Mentioned
    632 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    what other way is there other than finding and eliminating the contradictions and asking people who like analysing from the socionics viewpoint?

    I mean, I'm willing to believe you when you say there is another way, but what is it?
    i don't know but i know that there are lots of other people on the forum and not all of them have gone about it in the same way you have.

    i think part of it is finding peace with the fact that its just a model and there ARE going to be contradictions and thats just the way it is. what people generally do is find the best fit and then deal with the fact that its not perfect lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    people do tend to misunderstand each other. I didn't think Ne was about shifting perspectives about one single thing. as far as I understand, Ne is about taking several views and accepting all of them at once. I tend to stick to my own view unless I'm convinced by logical arguments but that may take a while. people do not like this about me in general and I believe your problem is this, and not any kind of "Ne-ness".
    what is the particular view you are sticking to? that there are too many contradictions for you to have one type? i don't see this one view. i see you stubbornly leaving everything open.

  31. #31

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    i don't know but i know that there are lots of other people on the forum and not all of them have gone about it in the same way you have.
    yeah, I know not everyone does it the way I do; some just keep randomly switching types once in a while. crazy random stuff like, from LII to EIE. but ok, if that's fine with them, cool, I don't mind.

    i think part of it is finding peace with the fact that its just a model and there ARE going to be contradictions and thats just the way it is. what people generally do is find the best fit and then deal with the fact that its not perfect lol.
    yeah, I guess... I value Ti too much to accept this happily.

    what is the particular view you are sticking to? that there are too many contradictions for you to have one type? i don't see this one view. i see you stubbornly leaving everything open.
    yes that's my view. there's just way too much ambiguity in this theory. it might be just because there is no objectivity in it at all. but it irritates me.

    yet I do like a few things in the theory and that's why I'm still interested at all.

  32. #32
    Perpetual Confusion Machine PistolShrimp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Red Sox and Celtics and Bruins, oh my!
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    504
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    oh that would be too easy. but how about Ne devaluation? I don't value ideas for themselves in many cases. I prefer realization of things in one specific direction instead of just increasing number of ideas.

    btw I have been with people trying to take care of me and I didn't really feel the need for it. is it possible to not know what I'd like even after I experienced it?

    plus, all that nonsense about Si suggestive like how Ne people are unable to determine their physical states and willing to get advice regarding this from others. no, just no, that's not me.
    You're probably ILE-Ti, hence less valuing of Ne/Si and more focus on Ti/Fe. You said yourself that Ti-creative and EP temperament are OK typings for you, and there's no way you're SLE; you're way too ambiguous. So what EP Ti-creative type is left?

    isn't necessarily someone trying to take care of you directly. It could be someone knowing when you need a backrub, and just the right spots to work on. Someone cleaning up the mess left behind while you're too busy in your own head to care about such tedious things. Someone making an aesthetically-pleasing environment to help calm your restless mind. Someone making sure you don't pass out from low blood sugar when you get caught up in a random flurry of activity. Someone just being patient and gentle with you.

    Have you read about cognitive styles at all?

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...yles%28wiki%29

    You focus a lot on contradictions, and seem unable to resolve them on your own, as others have mentioned. SEI has a Dialectical-Algorithmic cognitive style, one that supposedly deals well with contradictions and paradoxes. Can you see how that type of style may be complementary to your own? Surely Socionics has its own contradictions, but you're contradicting yourself in general.

    Did you grow up with any SEI family members or friends?

  33. #33
    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,808
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    well, the theory itself makes sense, but Si PoLR with Ti valuing doesn't. (and of course I'm not EIE)


    edit: you may have meant that I'm unclear about Ti vs Te, yeah? I'm certainly interested in how exactly you realized that you were Te/Fi valuing instead of Ti/Fe which you believed for a couple of years. that may provide some extra insight.
    Yeah? Ok, well for me it wasn't so much that I realized that I value Fi so much more than I value Fe that everything sort of just made more sense when I typed myself as an Fi valuer. Granted it did make more sense but that was more from a relationship perspective not an IM valuing one. In fact a lot of the theory didn't make sense to me practically when I thought I was SLE, I mean I understood it and since I decidedly avoided typing people based on my reactions or feelings toward them I still had the few of my friends typed correctly but overwhelmingly I would just sort of sit in limbo on trying to figure out people's type and could never figure a lot of people out. I could connect the theory to reality in the cases of people who sort of made the connections between the theory and reality very obvious. So I have a lot of 'benchmark' types because those were the only people that I thought were obviously enough one type to put a label on them.

    Then of course it was Niff who really ended up convincing me that SEE made a lot of sense, and that was a fairly emotional turning point for me. My Ex and I at the time were getting on really well and I knew she was IEI and the thought of not being her dual really scared me. I cried for a while after that, Niff kinda talked me down because the theory really doesn't matter that much and for the most part I get in these moods where I take the whole thing too seriously and in moments like these he sort of brings me back. Which is nice. Anyway I didn't really accept that I was SEE after that but I was considering it an option again. So I just sort of went around trying to make sense of other people's type in relation to the idea "What if my self typing was SEE?" and i started to realize that everything was making way more sense than it did before and people I previously had a lot of difficulty typing became very easy to identify. Partially because as it turns out I'm friends with a fair amount of SLEs and SEEs who I couldn't type because I had it backwards with regards to myself *chuckles*

    In any case values didn't make more sense to me initially. I still really like loud noisy environments and well typically Fe atmospheres as well as Typically Fi ones, but typing myself as SEE sort of opened my mind up to the idea that now it seems like everyone was aware of but me that the functions in your Id Block are ones you still actually kind of value. I mean you value them to some extent as an individual if that makes sense, I mean from a socionics perspective gammas don't value Fe, but from an individual perspective your Id Block is something you understand quiet clearly and understand why people would value it and to some extent value it yourself, though of course it still takes a sort of back seat to your Ego Block but your Id Block is still something that you actively 'do', behavior that would exist in the Ego Block of someone who has your Id in their Ego would be slightly reminiscent of your own behavior. Granted no one is going to think I'm SEI anytime soon, but that idea really explains my kinks with the theory like still liking Fe to some extent despite being gamma.
    Easy Day

  34. #34

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PistolShrimp View Post
    You're probably ILE-Ti, hence less valuing of Ne/Si and more focus on Ti/Fe. You said yourself that Ti-creative and EP temperament are OK typings for you, and there's no way you're SLE; you're way too ambiguous. So what EP Ti-creative type is left?

    isn't necessarily someone trying to take care of you directly. It could be someone knowing when you need a backrub, and just the right spots to work on. Someone cleaning up the mess left behind while you're too busy in your own head to care about such tedious things. Someone making an aesthetically-pleasing environment to help calm your restless mind. Someone making sure you don't pass out from low blood sugar when you get caught up in a random flurry of activity. Someone just being patient and gentle with you.

    Have you read about cognitive styles at all?

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...yles%28wiki%29

    You focus a lot on contradictions, and seem unable to resolve them on your own, as others have mentioned. SEI has a Dialectical-Algorithmic cognitive style, one that supposedly deals well with contradictions and paradoxes. Can you see how that type of style may be complementary to your own? Surely Socionics has its own contradictions, but you're contradicting yourself in general.

    Did you grow up with any SEI family members or friends?


    It's not guaranteed that I applied the theory correctly to my own observations. There is no real objective guarantee for that as far as I can see. See, how some people think that I'm a Te lead type (thus not even EP but EJ).

    I didn't first seek out contradictions, that's not how I start looking at a theory by default; but when I considered duality, that did not make sense to me and then I noticed a few other things and then I got here.

    I never have these Si issues that you listed, I easily notice in time that I need to eat or sleep and so on. Basically my body sends a signal and then I notice. I don't focus on it by default but I pick up these signals - kind of like an interrupt . I may ignore it though, if I'm busy but I never run into serious issues where I would need someone else to help. Beyond that I don't deal with Si much, I don't seek comfort beyond the basic things (food, sleep). Well I did create some aesthetically pleasing environment when I moved to this place because I actually own the place (I lived in rented apartments before and in those places I didn't deal with aesthetics), but I didn't overdo it, I wasn't interested enough for that. Another thing is, I don't readily clean up the mess my partner tends to leave after himself. When it gets too much I just force him to clean up a bit, and I will do a bit of it myself too (because I'm just that nice lol). I don't create much mess myself, but if there is mess, I'll just ignore it and go on with my stuff, so it takes a while for me to direct my focus on household work, because it just doesn't interest me, just an annoyance to me, no more. An issue I do have is I can be clumsy with new tasks (after practice I'm fine) and if I don't have time figuring it out, I will request help (my partner readily helps with such issues, he has an adept hand at fixing things).

    I read about the cognitive styles, yes. That doesn't really help, because I didn't identify with ILE's cognitive style at all. That kind of thinking is something I had to force myself to learn for university research jobs.

    I don't know if I have any SEI family member or friends; a forum member thinks my mother may be SEI, based on VI and other stuff. She's nice and we are on good terms but she doesn't feel like my dual. My dad was most likely an ILI, this typing we agreed about with that forum member.

  35. #35
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,613
    Mentioned
    632 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    yeah, I know not everyone does it the way I do; some just keep randomly switching types once in a while. crazy random stuff like, from LII to EIE. but ok, if that's fine with them, cool, I don't mind.
    some people do this and you also know some people arent nearly as restless about going over every detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    yeah, I guess... I value Ti too much to accept this happily.
    its just the way it is. if you don't accept it you're in danger of taking the theory so seriously that you don't see people as people anymore. it is important to have a sense of reality about this stuff. for reals. you're new and there might still be hope for you lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    yes that's my view. there's just way too much ambiguity in this theory. it might be just because there is no objectivity in it at all. but it irritates me.

    yet I do like a few things in the theory and that's why I'm still interested at all.
    i relate. and thats why i can tell you you're fighting a losing battle here. i believe it is impossible solve the contradictions without losing a hold on reality.

  36. #36
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,613
    Mentioned
    632 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    I didn't first seek out contradictions, that's not how I start looking at a theory by default; but when I considered duality, that did not make sense to me and then I noticed a few other things and then I got here.
    the fact is you have been focusing on contradictions.
    the fact is you have been focusing on contradictions.
    the fact is you have been focusing on contradictions.

    show not tell.
    show not tell.
    show not tell.

    /dies

  37. #37

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    Yeah? Ok, well for me it wasn't so much that I realized that I value Fi so much more than I value Fe that everything sort of just made more sense when I typed myself as an Fi valuer. Granted it did make more sense but that was more from a relationship perspective not an IM valuing one. (...)

    interesting. food for thought.

  38. #38

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    the fact is you have been focusing on contradictions.
    the fact is you have been focusing on contradictions.
    the fact is you have been focusing on contradictions.

    show not tell.
    show not tell.
    show not tell.

    /dies

    you did not see how I started out with socionics, so what you're saying here is quite irrelevant.

  39. #39
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,613
    Mentioned
    632 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    you did not see how I started out with socionics, so what you're saying here is quite irrelevant.
    you saying one thing about yourself and showing something completely different about yourself is a CONTRADICTION.

    i am RESOLVING it by trusting what i can see.
    Last edited by lump; 04-30-2012 at 04:51 PM.

  40. #40

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    around the world
    TIM
    Se+Ti+Ti
    Posts
    334
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    some people do this and you also know some people arent nearly as restless about going over every detail.



    its just the way it is. if you don't accept it you're in danger of taking the theory so seriously that you don't see people as people anymore. it is important to have a sense of reality about this stuff. for reals. you're new and there might still be hope for you lol.



    i relate. and thats why i can tell you you're fighting a losing battle here. i believe it is impossible solve the contradictions without losing a hold on reality.

    I prefer reality to theory. or I wouldn't have noticed these things in the first place. only the theory can be molded to reality, not the other way around. I don't even try to type people anymore, because it's all too ambiguous.

    the way I can accept it is the first post in "usefulness of socionics" thread, where I dissect the theory into something else.

    tbh, I got too much time on my hands now.

    ps.: I'm only new on this forum.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •