chose wisely
Nazism or Communism; which one do you hate more
chose wisely
I voted "other" because you are asking us to pick between two of the same, really.
I think communist regimes have killed more people and have more apologists.
The end is nigh
Depends on what people consider Communism/Socialism. I'm pretty sure what Nazism is. I mean the Dalai Lama is still a Marxist and he was exiled from a communist country.
I think ultimately wealth equity is one of the fundamental problems of society and if it's not somewhat fair people will be oppressed. Inequity occur in both capitalistic and communist models and the only real way to deal with it is not thru ideology but thru practical systems and regulations.
If people want to talk body counts, I'm pretty sure Capitalism has killed far more people then Nazism or Communism. Probably more people then Nazi and Communist regimes combined.
If you live in a country like China, people there purged/killed by both Japanese, KMT, CCP, British, Russian, German, East Indies Trading Company, Opium peddlers, etc. And not just small amounts but tens of millions by all these groups or thru instability caused by all these groups. Ideology is meaningless, you have to be strong as a individual no matter what ideology you hold and you have to organize your very mean gang to ensure that you're not abused by others, regardless of their ideology. If you want you can even be nice and kind to those less fortunate then you are instead of being a tool.
Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.
Communism in large scale forms has only turned out one way. Many regimes may be labeled "capitalist," but the one's that practice capitalism as espoused in capitalist theory have a far lower death count than communism or nazism. Don't try and pin "capitalism" on imperialism or mercantilism, or w/e the hell you have in mind.
The end is nigh
See, therein lies the problem, because nobody has practiced communism as it is espoused by Marx, either.Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion
I'm not a communist, I think -isms are pretty retarded and, just like religions, are essentially brain-molding memes that, in the hands of people, serve only their own ends. Having an -ism is just joining a potentially disastrous cultural mind-massification wave. Stop with your fucking -isms.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Capitalist apologist, you sound remarkably similar to communist apologist.... lol... Oh yea, there are more capitalist apologists then communist apologist too.
The truth is nobody really knows what capitalism is either. Capitalism and communism are both fantasies. The only real truth is evolution, survival of the fittest. But nothing lasts forever.
Oh yea, name one modern capitalist country...
Oh Hkkmr, how you love to twist things.
I guess no ideologies actually exist at all, so let's pack up everything and leave the thread.
I hate Nazism because it is more phonetically deceptive.
The end is nigh
Both of them seem to inevitably fuck up and lead to senseless mass-slaughter over time, so whoever makes more whoopy has my blessing.
Oh, and whoever has the best recipe for purple drank.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
The end is nigh
I never said ideologies don't exist. I said they're fantasies. There is a difference difference. Way to twist my words around.
You still haven't named me a capitalist country. You can't actually apply communism or capitalism without encountering contradictions or areas where these ideologies simply don't work and have to be ignored.
Capitalism exists despite countries.
The end is nigh
I could say the same about Communism and Nazism.
props to hkkmr for not outright censoring despite the wrist-slapping...
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
What the fuck is this shit?
"We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.".
And infections exist despite doctors. Your point?
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Lol good point.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
yeah, I chose communism, solely because of the lofty bloat and hypocritical premise of collective equality; at least nazism admits a godhead, and inspires a certain randian nostalgia.
4w3-5w6-8w7
I think it's wrong to censor my post. Nazism a legitimate ideology, and at least hasn't killed as many people as capitalism. We should censor capitalist remarks instead, seeing as it is actually a more harmful ideology.
The racism inherent in Nazism is about survival of the fittest. Therefore it makes sense as a practical solution to a problem. One gang fighting against the rest. In the end, it is more logical. My race wins, yours loses. Practical solutions.
The end is nigh
Yeah I suppose successful aggressive expansion would at least be a bit like ripping the bandaid, evolutionarily speaking...
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Well Nazism obviously isn't very fit. Just because you pretend to be about it doesn't make it so.
What survive is fittest, not what pretends to be fittest.
Certain parts of capitalism and communism I find very fit, others, not so much. I find the basic premise of Nazism is actually a bit suicidal.
I'm glad we live in Nazi-communist society now, or otherwise we couldn't be sitting here sarcastically remarking about it!
The end is nigh
Didn't the NAZI party start out as the national socialist party?
yar. apparently ****** began the indoctrinations in jail.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Then what? It is a "system" that narrows over space and time.
Fixed for you. Most of the nice places in the world are mixed economies with libertarian social mores. Free love, market economy and wealth redistribution baby..
Both ideologies are exclusive. There is no curve within them. Capitalism is a total bitch, but its playable.
There are ideological wars in capitalism too, so it really depends on the form of capitalism you want to promote. Smith? Keynes? Hayek? Rand?
Most of these places are nice despite the forays into wealth redistribution. There is no love or morality in forced wealth redistribution. It has moral value neither for forcers or the forced. There cannot be love where there is coercion.
The end is nigh
None of the above. My only point was simplistic, which is that it is not entirely exclusive. It can be, and has been, however.
What do you mean forced wealth redistribution?
Most of these are democratic systems which means these changes were enacted in a representative fashion, and to live in such a system means to abide by the laws of the system. If not, arrange yourself to move. Most of these countries do not forbid immigration or emigration.
Economics isn't about love or morality, that's just retarded.
And if you want to talk about a moral side to economics, you can't ignore Adam Smith, who is first and foremost a moral philosopher.
He advocated progressive taxation, and this is the sort of morality I can stand behind, but does it really make economic sense. I couldn't begin to justify it economically. Morally however, it seems reasonable.
i don't think you quite understand how Nazism works. ****** was systematically purging your kind from the gene pool long before he turned to any of the groups you mention:
http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/focus/disabilities/On July 14, 1933, the German government instituted the “Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” This law called for the sterilization of all persons who suffered from diseases considered hereditary, including mental illness, learning disabilities, physical deformity, epilepsy, blindness, deafness, and severe alcoholism.
I actually like Marxism from the standpoint of how Marx broke down and commented on society -- when it comes to developing a solution to that problem his writings were very idealistic and when put into practice resulted in a lot of problems.
Nazism is different, it's not really a formulated solution to society problems based on a philosophical backing. It was a political party in Post WWI Germany when they were suffering a bad economy and political turmoil and became the vehicle for ****** to come into power. A lot of people immediately associate Nazism to what happened with ******, because well that's what ultimately became of the political party and there were no other Nazi parties before or at the time to weigh against this. The negative attributes commonly associated to ****** are militant imperialism, genocide/racism, and influence through propaganda.
I'm definitely not for those things however what annoys me is how people pretend as though Nazism was the first and only time this occurred in the world. Militant imperialism was a way of life for Europians up until WWII and mainly because WWII was so awful and bloody and violent, it has its backbone medevial warfare and Roman's contracting barbarians for wars. Early on in the dark ages Romans would trade barbarians land in exchange for military services and this set the stage for a kind of total war mentality between feudal lords in the early middle ages, that developed as a political system determining who was ruler of what.
Genocide is endemic to tribalism and is still witnessed today in other countries.
Propaganda as well, in America this is very common in two area business and marketing and media and political influence. In some ways I don't hate ****** for his propaganda as he actually believed in his ideology although with say a person marketing kids a cheap toy, the marketers don't really give a shit, they know its a shitty toy but they are just looking to cash in. Many people cite this about dictators, that they really don't care, but they just want to cash in on power -- although I think they do it's just they have delusional believes and a strong ability to intuitively and naturally seize power. I think what actually creates dictators isn't some grand manipulator, but a lack of criticism of one's leaders in a society that allows their delusional believes to remain unchecked. This is definitely true in ******'s case as his delusions about "unfit" members of society where echoed by many and the few voices that spoke against him were easily silenced through the efforts of secret police and propaganda. I think the lesson people should take away isn't "****** IS A BAD MAN", it's to have the courage to criticize and speak out against something you don't agree with even if it grinds against the current of what is popular and accepted.
Troll harder
How precisely does one rationalize two highly distinct socio-economic systems in being similar unless by broad generalizations and stupidly obvious characterizations such as "they were both systems"?
Can I get some sauce with that bullshit sandwich? I would advise you cease while you have not yet fully limped, for if you utter such banalities in an attempt to express your "special" opinion in the hopes of looking very clever and to advance them as solid reasoning, you will no doubtingly find yourself drowning in the pools of urine ushered in by your ad-hoc pissing contest.
Firstly, the Dalai Lama is not a Marxist, nor is China socialist or even close to communism (in fact, it's impossible for communism cannot be achieved by a single country.) Yet, because you are completely and utterly fucking ignorant of the topic of which you surround with a fantastic array of logically erroneous scarecrows, you confuse yourself. If we consider that you open your post with the notion that the laws of history were but the mere construct of the human definition and that their objective existences rested firmly on the shoulders of subjective interpretation and then, quite ironiclly, spend the rest of your post paying a lip-service to the objective laws beyond our control; oblivious to fact that what we call communism is the logical consequence of a species that is antagonistic to it's own continued existence, that as capital centralizes, as more and more industries are brought under one roof, or taken control by the state out of ever increasing frequency/necessity, it is society making impulses towards socialization. There is more and more connectivity, travel, industrial parks and parking lot malls, society is socializing beyond our active control and that by simply reflecting about the concept is nothing more than the conscious reflection of it's objective unfolding- weather such reflection is in favor or against is of no importance. The relationship between your ignorance and confusion is reciprocal.
You're all knuckle-fucks.
"We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.".
Eh, it's all too ironic anyways. I wish you all the best of luck.
The end is nigh
A wise decision, comrade.
"We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.".
They are both pretty cool. But I want to root for the underdog so I usually like better the one which gets dissed more.
I have usually defended my socialist views on this forum, like drug regulation and taxation, but with Europeans I like to point out the about the good things ****** did.
I ever hardly consider things horrible as I lack the required empathy and I'm very capable of seeing good sides to slaughter, fascism and propaganda.
In Europe, the favourite political curse word is "nazi" and in the US it's "commie".
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
you are my brother nazzi in german and my brother commie in the us
Marx wasn't a Marxist (he said it himself) and the typical "communist" countries like China, the USSR, North Korea, ect. are (or were) all "red fascist" regimes. It's silly to look at the death toll and choose the one "ideology" which killed more. As CPig said, both options are the same, if you read Marx you'd know that the "communism" as it was practiced has nothing to do with actual communism. It was only a cover and a tool for the bolsheviks to rise to power.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
or ObamanationOh, politix!
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