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Thread: Is western civilization about to collapse?

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    Default Is western civilization about to collapse?

    - Far right parties gaining strength in Europe
    - SCOTUS seemingly poised to destroy the federal government (immigration control laws and state objections to Affordable Care Act)
    - U.S. army battling mutiny efforts by would-be assassins (the Stein controversy)

    It looks like the radical right is on the march, and it won't stop until it is defeated in the ultimate outcome of all radical world visions: war.

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    They're not gaining any significant strength and I don't know where you got that from. Your head, I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    They're not gaining any significant strength and I don't know where you got that from. Your head, I think.
    Check CNN.

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    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    It's not about to collapse. I wish it were, though.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    - Far right parties gaining strength in Europe
    there has actually been some backlash against austerity policies in recent months/weeks.

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    The CNN article focused on the rise of Marie Le Pen, who obtained a shocking 20% of the French vote.

    Interesting article about Rupert Murdoch, who is one of the key players in the drive to eliminate socialist elements in western economies.

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/25/world/...html?hpt=hp_t3

    The Brits appear to be getting their house back in order, but I fear Obama doesn't have the guts to stand up to SCOTUS. I fear he would fall to the temptation of trying to rally the people against the court, to limited effect, rather than taking the Abe Lincoln approach of ruthlessly imposing his moral vision that the situation requires.

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    Yes, I believe WW3 is imminent.

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    Creepy-male

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    Is western civilization about to collapse?
    No

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    YES!!!!!!

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    Killer of DJA's Fun fen's Avatar
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    Perhaps. I feel like a big change is about to happen out of necessity--but collapse? Not sure what that would entail, but perhaps.
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


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    After the 2007 financial collapse and all the doomsday predictions that didn't come true, I feel indifferent when I hear similar types of predictions.
    Last edited by Ozz; 04-26-2012 at 03:54 AM.

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    Creepy-pokeball

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    SES will diverge again, but certainly not any time soon.

    Tcaud, dont watch the news. It isnt good for your health, but w/e.

    Irregardingly,

    Uber Righty

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozz View Post
    After the 2007 financial collapse and all the doomsday predictions that didn't come true, I feel indifferent when I hear similar types of predictions.
    They were only delayed and made worse.

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    They're not far right by definition at all. Most are street movements. Some combine left-wing views on welfare with opposition to all forms of multiculturalism, not to mention those already banned.

    As for this "doomsday not coming true" and your comment on it, crazie rat. I bet tcaudilllg shares your views, it's really funny. The apocalyptic phase enters the party and it is all over. Guru's message turns pessimistic or doomsday, voicing something like this: " soon civilization is going to break down and face amazing disasters, except for us who are wisely withdrawing to protect our purity."

    The transition from optimistic expansionism to the paranoid doomsday mode involves heavy turnover of people. Those not really "serious" leave and others begin to question the leader's omniscience. In an attempt to counteract this, this group becomes more militaristic, demanding even greater obedience.

    I better watch out there now for I don't know who's this "far-right Europe , SCOTUS U.S Conspiracy".

    Last edited by Absurd; 04-26-2012 at 09:08 AM.

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    Hello...? somavision's Avatar
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    There has always been a reactionary ebb and flow of anti-immigration/far right sentiment/elitist sentiment, I don't think it can be said to be associated with the end of western civilisation. In fact much of western civilisation was built upon far right politicies and social dynamics. It is naive to see any deviation from an idealised state of continuing and linear social progression as apocalyptic. That is not to say that the rise in far-right politics is not of concern to those on the left, centre and moderate right of the political spectrum. Even here in the U.K. there has been an increase in support for the extreme far right National Front, however this is against the backdrop of an increase in socialist activity and support in the Labour Party. It is perhaps of interest to note, that despite the strong polling of Le Pen in the french presidential election, The Socialist candidate, Francois Hollande was the leader after the first round.
    IEE-Ne

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    Quote Originally Posted by somavision View Post
    Even here in the U.K. there has been an increase in support for the extreme far right National Front, however this is against the backdrop of an increase in socialist activity and support in the Labour Party.
    It's not the 1978 anymore, so tcaudilllg's "predictions" are a bit in the past but yes, support increased slightly, but it is not what it used to be in the past. Besides, such parties are prone to split anytime and join other platform(s) just to win a seat marginalising its influence even further.

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    Hello...? somavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    It's not the 1978 anymore, so tcaudilllg's "predictions" are a bit in the past but yes, support increased slightly, but it is not what it used to be in the past. Besides, such parties are prone to split anytime and join other platform(s) just to win a seat marginalising its influence even further.
    True and even back then we only ended up with Margaret Thatcher, who despite some peoples perceptions is hardly hitler.
    IEE-Ne

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    is tcaudillag about to collapse ?

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    Our inside eyes lie to all of us, even though they know
    Keep a finger on the pulse and let it all roll overhead
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    OK #1, the right does not have the right to stop progress. If we achieve it in the legislature, that's the end of the road. The court cannot just strike down something its members disagree with. It must represent overreach by one branch of government against the other. In both cases now before the supreme court, the administration is correct: ACA does not exceed the power of the congress. It's a tax. No one's being forced to buy anything, you're just faced with paying a tax if you choose not to. It's just creating a new class of tax payers, one which is contingent on the individual's will.

    Regarding immigration, I looked over Article IV very carefully, and compared it with Article II. Only Congress can raise militia (police) and armies. States are given the ability to administrate the police. They may raise not troops -- meaning no police and no armies -- of their own. The structure of the police forces is dictated, that's why it is uniform. The police may behave only as the congress dictates: there is a U.S. code entry governing everything they do. The rights of the states are actually strikingly limited, which is to be expected because the constitution was a reconsideration of the articles of confederation, which gave enormous independence to the states.

    What is ICE? I'm not sure. It's either an army contingent, which are under direct control of the president, or police operating through Virginia/Maryland. (both Maryland and Virginia must share control of their police forces with the congress, because the capital is on their lands). Either way, the federal government has exclusive control over it, and has not given the police the powers to check immigration status. So it doesn't matter what those justices say: Arizona can do nothing but instruct its police to follow the federal law.

    Quote Originally Posted by somavision

    It is naive to see any deviation from an idealised state of continuing and linear social progression as apocalyptic.
    Actually THAT is naive. There is real danger of a general uprising when people feel 1) that the people in power are not listening, and 2) that there is a power above them which seems out of reach.

    The SCOTUS majority is one such power.

    The endurance of the conservative majority on the court, coupled with the idiotic voting patterns of Americans (things are going good with the Democrat... let's choose a Republican to keep it going! And oh look: TAX CUTS!! DDD) suggests that the chances of obtaining a new liberal majority on the court are slim.

    Liberals are sensitive to the use of pressure to shape emotions -- they're the smart guys after all -- and will not long abide it.

    The right tends to respect authority. The left respects it only when it serves its ends.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 04-27-2012 at 12:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratremix View Post
    They were only delayed and made worse.
    It's pretty clear to me that they have the ability to delay this issue for at least 7 years, likely like 10 years. That is until demographic hits the western world hard. So no collapse imminent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post


    Actually THAT is naive. There is real danger of a general uprising when people feel 1) that the people in power are not listening, and 2) that there is a power above them which seems out of reach.

    The SCOTUS majority is one such power.

    The endurance of the conservative majority on the court, coupled with the idiotic voting patterns of Americans (things are going good with the Democrat... let's choose a Republican to keep it going! And oh look: TAX CUTS!! DDD) suggests that the chances of obtaining a new liberal majority on the court are slim.

    Liberals are sensitive to the use of pressure to shape emotions -- they're the smart guys after all -- and will not long abide it.

    The right tends to respect authority. The left respects it only when it serves its ends.
    I stand by my statement

    I have not stated that there would not be any uprisings (Britain for example had it's biggest riots in 30 years last year). I stated that you were naive in thinking that any deviation from a continuous and linear social progression is apocalyptic. This was in response to the hyperbole of your opening post. A riot is not the end of western civilisation, general discontentment is not apocalyptic, class war will not wipe out the history and culture of it's civilisation. Societies are far more robust than that, you only need to look at the last hundred years or so and the political changes that have taken place in most countries (I'm thinking Russia, Germany, Britain,Cambodia, Japan,) the ruling politics changed (sometimes sharply) but the civilisation and the culture continued. Was the American civil war the end of western civilisation? No. Were either of the world wars? No. Granted they resulted in massive changes, but in the grand scheme of things they are adjustments.
    And this is considering the most extreme outcomes, one thing that is perhaps of note (and please be aware I am no particular student of politics) is that you live in a democratic nation, with stable and progressive institutions. Despite the undeniable influence of those already in
    power and those with wealth, there will always be a tipping point of critical mass where dissatisfaction calls for a change. In those nations without proper democratic institutions, this is in the form of revolutions, which either succeed or are crushed, but unless a population is particularly polarised the democratic process within western nations are sufficient to reflect the changes of political sentiment. To get into political office, it matters how much money you raise but more importantly it matters how many votes you get. This is not to say that there won't be uprisings, you need to look no further than Greece, or even here in the UK where last summer we had the biggest riots for 30 years. But considering long term trends none of this is unusual.

    I would also like to point out that most of the information that you provide to support your arguements are from online sorces, I would suggest that the way in which you select and interpret information is a clear casse of confirmation bias. Perhaps a more accurate way of gauging sentiment is to actually listen to people in general. Despite this forum not being entirely representative of the whole of western civilisation, in terms of age, insanity etc, it is still useful as an estimated microcosm, with a large number of people from across the political spectrum, from a large number of countries.

    If you want to be objective in your predictions, perhaps this is a good place to start.

    How many people here do you think are about to embark on a general uprising?
    Who would they direct their uprising against?
    What would be there demands?
    How would they want to end the western civilisation?
    IEE-Ne

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    Probably. Bleeding heart liberal here, though american society has always been very right wing. ie; people have poor social skills and everybody turns everything into money. It is too anti-romantic , a bunch of fat angry slobby pigs that u don't wanna date. We've always been dinosaurs with social issues , because we put businesses before people.

    The only way I really know how to handle it is by developing a sense of humor. I want a t-shirt that says 'I AM AN OBESE EXTROVERTED AMERICAN ASSHOLE. I WILL CUT INTO YOUR EMPATHY' and then have a picture of a dude throat fucking a chick while holding a wad of cash in his hands. I think HaveLucidDreamz and I should wear that shirt together and go walk together in a walmart with it.

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    I honestly think trying to make america more faggy and compassionate is a losing battle that nobody can win. I think if somebody wants that they need to just move. I think I may move to Canada if I can pass the test or something idk -- though every place has its issues. It's too fucked up here, and you are basically happy if you are a rightwing dude with lots of money but you are treated like crap in all places if you are a liberal with a big heart and believes in sharing the power. I mean we have a retarded society in many ways like having to pay for higher education instead of it being free. Cops are corrupt, lazy and hopeless. Nobody cares about fighting evil unless the dude is bad in the most objective way possible, there's like no consequences for bad behavior, instead - it's rewarded and people gleefully cheer while holding their pitchforks. Not really the type of society to participate in if you have empathy, a heart or compassion- that's why I say to the left, just move, and make your land somewhere else. Or you could just kill all right-wingers. That would be pleasurable. We could finally kill that anti-emotional tension in the air of everybody secretly trying to fuck everybody else over in their heads.

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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I want a t-shirt that says 'I AM AN OBESE EXTROVERTED AMERICAN ASSHOLE. I WILL CUT INTO YOUR EMPATHY' and then have a picture of a dude throat fucking a chick while holding a wad of cash in his hands.
    shouldn't he be a married, self-hating Christian man fucking a male prostitute instead?

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    That's hot. I erotically sucked the finger of a married guy with a wedding ring once. *naughty*

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