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Thread: Enneagram - Claudio Naranjo's Lectures on Instinctual Subtypes / Instinct Variants

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    Default Enneagram - Claudio Naranjo's Lectures on Instinctual Subtypes / Instinct Variants

    These sounded interesting - it's a recording of Naranjo's lecture on enneagram subtypes


    Video Lectures by Claudio Naranjo:
    intro, type 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5PstIv0MMw
    types 1, 2, 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKM2iA2ZjD4
    4, 5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9XN868fDgk
    6, 7, 8 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmWKFFCGBPc
    8, 9 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcG_mSxhyIo

    Intro to Naranjo's "Character and Neurosis" (pdf)
    27 Subtypes by Beatrice Chestnut (soundcloud)


    Naranjo's Profiles of Instinctual Variants


    This is a summary of Claudio Naranjo's presentation of enneagram types and instinctual subtypes at the International Enneagram Association Conference. Naranjo commented that he doesn't like to teach enneagram types as simply information to be memorized but that learning enneagram should be experiential, that enneagram is like a map that organizes various types and levels of spiritual work, not a spiritual practice in itself.
    Note: NN is short for "Neurotic Need".


    Enneagram Type 1:

    1s generally: SX are the reformers, minding others' business, perfecting others. SO are perfect already. SP worries too much. Problem of morality vs. moralism

    SX-1 - An animal in heat. Anger infuses desire. "I have to have it and I have a right to it." Example: diamond mines in Africa - feeling that "I did the work to get the diamonds and what would the Africans use them for anyhow? They don't know what to do with diamonds, they don't appreciate them." The conquistador. I have a right to what is wanted. No shame in wanting what's not appropriate - asks "Why Not???" in response to questions of appropriateness. Rhinoceros of a person.

    SO-1 - Unadaptable. Rigid, school teacher mentality. "I'm going to tell you how it is." Aristocratic. My way is right; others must adapt to me. Tendency to adhere to a particular way of doing things, like a scholar who is such in every sense of the word, but hangs on to a bad accent and grammar from his or her home country and refuses to adapt to new environment. The model. The one that already knows and doesn't need to learn from others. NN for superiority. Make others wrong to have power over them.

    SP-1 - Passion for worrying. Not just behavioral - there's a need to worry. Need to know how it's going to happen. Fusses over details. Must have everything taken care of.


    Enneagram Type 2:

    2s generally: "helper" is not a good word for 2. They're not really helpful but strategically helpful. Inconsistent with offers of help.

    SX-2 - Seducer. Expression of feeling and compliments to get your allegiances. Dangerous beauty - needs to have a hold of you, might eat you up. Needs to seduce, desire for other. Helen of Troy - woman for whom men went to war and lost their lives. Wants EVERYTHING - wants someone to give them everything - it might be material, might be pampering, whatever - but they want everything to come from the other. Some people of this type fill the archetype of the dumb blonde because they might not feel like they need to develop their intellect.

    SO-2 - Leader type. Wants to be important. Ambition to stand above, to have influence and advantages. Stuffy. More civilized, less voluptuous than SX, more adult than SP.

    SP-2 - More childlike than the other two subtypes. There is inherent cuteness, less adult. "Infantile" by psychoanaytic standards. "ME" is the most important, in a child like way, a child-like importance. Wants to be loved just for being. Their needs for love is quite naked. They use remaining little for gain. Pretend to be unadulterated.


    Enneagram Type 3:

    SX-3 - Wants to be good in a different sense of the word - beautiful, attractive, masculine or feminine depending on gender. They are pleasers. It doesn't have to be sexualized - it's way more subtle than that. A woman might have a passion for family and being so good, needing those close to her to see her as wonderful. Promotes and supports "key" others.

    SO-3 - Corporate greed, so concentrated on doing something right that they don't see the flaws in their methods. Compassion for brilliance, doing job as best as can be done. Worldliness. Prestige - need everone's approval, not just some people's. Isn't in DSM IV as having anything wrong with this type[this note may apply to 3s in general].

    SP-3 - Has the vanity of having no vanity. So determined to be good, to be how a person should be (good housewife, good father, good worker, good monk, etc) and that implies vanity. Difficult to recognize SP 3 as a 3. NN is to be good. Security - autonomy - taking care of one self. Do for self 1st. The kind of person that you go to for advice.


    Enneagram Type 4:

    4s generally: The subtypes among 4s are more differentiated than with other enneatypes - more striking differences between these.

    SX-4 - Shameless. Even if it's shameful, I will stil get what I want, do anything to satisfy my desires. The more I complain, the more I get (this strategy works well as child, but not as adult). Viking ENVY, cannabalistic drive, competitive hate. Oral aggression - wishing mixed with anger. Sin of Cain - I envy you therefore I kill you. If I envy wealth, I start a revolution. Hateful, outspoken with anger, envy as competition.

    SO-4 - laments too much, too weepy, too often the victim, self-sabotaging, oversensitive, suffering more than others. NN to suffer - a child suffers to attract mother's love/attention - the way to happiness is through tears. Depends too much on others to ease suffering. Feels guilty for any wish. Most shameful. NN for self-abasement, compares self to others and winds up at the bottom of the ladder. Uncompetitive, insisting something's wrong with me.

    SP-4 - Loves suffering. Person who's learned to swallow a lot. Has learned to endure pain without wincing. "see how much I don't complain, don't ask for things - can you love me now??" Passion/NN is to endure - makes a career of enduring. Trains self in pain, like Lawrence of Arabia putting out the match with his fingers, able to endure the desert even the Arabs couldn't. Masochism.


    Enneagram Type 5:

    5s generally: Are the most monochromatic - it's hard to tell the subtypes apart

    SX-5 - Not easy to see the difference at first. But if you engage them in conversation long enough, you'll find they are passionate about the one person (usually someone they can't find). Search for absolute love and it's too hard for others to pass the test. Very easily disappointed. Looking to trust in another - the one that will be with you and for you no matter what, beyond the level of marriage vows. Romantic. The non-5 among 5s, though not completely apparent until you touch the spot. Example is Chopin - he was described as like an oyster with powdered sugar inside. He was aristocratic & stiff, and open only to a few people in his life. But his feeling life was expressed through music.

    SO-5 - More out there, totem. Need for super ideals. Relates to ideas, not people. Like Midas - wants everything he touches to be gold. Looking for super value, the elixir of meaning. Image oriented. So obsessed with idea loses engagement in life. NEED for extraordinary. Polarity between extraordinary-ness and meaninglessness. Everything is meaningless unless ultimate meaning is found. Need for ultimate instead of what is there.

    SP-5 - The most 5ish 5. Passion for sanctuary/hiddenness. Needs to be walled in, hides like a wolf in its lair. Needs to keep people out thru castle walls. Problems with expressiveness - the least expressive type.


    Enneagram Type 6:

    SX-6 - The counterphobic, turning against fear. Strength. Bulldog. More barking than biting, fierce looking. NN for intimidation. Best defense is an attack. These are the mad men who go against danger. Naranjo told a fable about a guy who bought a gun to shoot birds that were invading his house (? something like that), then accidentally shoots his guardian angel.

    SO-6 - Cold, prussian character. A little like 3 in efficiency. Duty is utmost - but that doesn't mean they actually do their duty, but that they are concerned about it all the time - NN to have those points of reference. Disconnected from intuition. Can be very precise and intolerance of ambiguity.

    SP-6 - Fear of no protection. Warm, teddy bears, want to feel the warm embrace of family, where there are no enemies (family of utmost importance to this type). The alliance former - makes bargains "I won't hurt you, you won't hurt me", bringing people together in the presence of a common enemy. Allows too much ambiguity. Rabbit.


    Enneagram Type 7:

    SX-7 - Heavenly. Glutton for things of the higher world. Dreamer. Passion to imagine something better than [stark] reality, to embellish reality. Looking at all things with optimism of someone who's in love. Too enthusiastic. NN to go for the sweetness of the imagined over ordinary reality. Need to fantasize. Rose-colored spectacles. Oral optimistic character (I think this was a Freudian reference). "I'm OK, You're OK" - which is a therapeutic theme for anyone but a 7.

    SO-7 - pure, too pure, counter-gluttony, concerned about diet, image, etc (new age fashion culture an example). "I will define myself anti-pig". They sacrifice gluttony - it's the postponement of desires for the ideal. Have gluttony for recognition of their sacrifice. Want to be seen as very, very good. Trying to be good according to social consensus. Goodness for applause. Reach ideal of perfection, but it's not innate perfectionism, it's efforted.

    SP-7 - Keeper of the castle, makes alliances, family oriented, but not in the real sense of the word. The family game can be played anywhere - "I'll be family with you and expect same of you; we band together to create a mafia." Partisanship, corruption. Self-interest is behind the alliance, but it's denied. Opportunistic. Has to make every experience into an advantage. Gluttony is excessive concern for self-preservation so they make deals at every possible opportunity. There is no conversation that doesn't lead to business - nose is always in the air for opportunity.


    Enneagram Type 8:

    8s generally: don't seek self knowledge, gravitate towards cynicism, hardening. Love issues are not accessible. A lot of repression of tenderness & inner child

    SX-8 - Anti-social tendency. Rebellious. More provocative than SO, SP. Out front saying "my values are different from the norm". Hysterical, emotional 8. Possession of the scene in total, a little like being the center. Power comes through seductiveness and fascination. Colored feathers.

    SO-8 - Punitive in defense of mother. A social anti-social. Example: a mother is abused by husband, the 8 child violently defends mother - it's a violence of solidarity. Ichazo used the word "friendship" for this subtype. Naranjo's word is "complicity". Related to loyalty. Child in example becomes anti-father, therefore anti-school, anti-authority, anti-intellectual. Underneath is something like an oedipus complex - to get mother love. It's hard to see the need for mother beneath the loyalty. Hard to make love-needs conscious (this is true with everyone, but more with this type). Most loyal of the 3 subtypes. The only 8 intellectual is the social 8.

    SP-8 - Satisfaction. "It's mine; I have to get it." Intolerance of frustration of desires. Most armed of 8s. Doesn't need to talk too much. Lion only moves when hungry. No nonsense, no word play. Exaggerated selfishness. Know how to do business, bargain, get upper hand over anyone. Survival is the utmost. More action, not talk.


    Enneagram Type 9:

    9s generally: Very loving people but deep down don't feel loved, they are resigned.

    SX-9 - Union/fusion/symbiosis/confluence. Needs to be through another. Fuses with one other. Use relationship to feed your being because you don't stand on your own 2 feet - stands through the other. Suspicious tenderness. Nobodies, not living with passion. Too dispassionate. "Nowhere Man". Not noticable - wallflower. Erased from family picture. "She eats but no one has seen her chew." Betrays own needs.

    SO-9 - Jolly good fellow. Light hearted, merry. Passion of participation, to feel a part of. Doesn't feel a part of to begin with, feels doesn't have what it takes to fit. Very mindful of group "other"; they fuse with the group. Good leader, unselfish, sacrificial. Passion of paying for ticket to group admission. Workaholic. Believes not to show pain or weigh others down with own woes.

    SP-9 - Appetite. Sancho Panza. I eat therefore I am. I sleep, I have, I want creature comforts. No metaphysical level of thinking. Can't talk about Being. Substitution of bottle for mother's breast was so complete that they are fused with their body. "Homo economicus" - the double chinned banker. Very practical people.



    Claudio's Naranjo's 'counterphobic' or 'counter'-types


    These are the enneagram type instictual subtypes that don't seem to follow the main passion of the type.
    As such, these instinct variants of enneagram types present a special difficulty in typing.

    According to C. Naranjo these 'counter'-types are: Sexual (SX) 1, Self-Preservation (SP) 2, Self-Preservation (SP) 3, Sexual (SX) 5, Sexual (SX) 6, Social (SO) 7, Social (SO) 8, and Social (SO) 9.


    Sexual 1: "Zeal"

    Sexual 1s focus on perfecting others; they are more reformers than perfectionists. The only 1 who is explicitly angry, they act out of anger through their intense desire to improve others and get what they want. They feel entitled in the way a reformer or zealot feels entitled: they believe that they have a right to change society and get what they want because they have a higher understanding of the truth and the reasons behind “the right way to be.” The countertype of the 1s, they are more impulsive and outwardly angry; they go against the “counter-instinctive” tendency of the 1 to repress anger and impulses.

    Self Preservation 2: "Privilege"

    Self Preservation 2s “seduce” like a child in the presence of grown-ups as a way of (unconsciously) inducing others to take care of them. Everyone likes children, and the Sp 2 adopts a youthful stance as a way of getting special treatment well beyond childhood. As the countertype, it’s less easy to see pride in this 2 because they are more fearful of and ambivalent about connecting with others. The title “Privilege” reflects this 2’s desire to be loved and prioritized just for being who they are, not for what they give to others. Related to the youthful stance, these 2s are playful, irresponsible and charming.

    Self Preservation 3: "Security"

    The Self Preservation 3 has a sense of vanity for having no vanity. This 3 also wants to be admired by others, but avoids openly seeking recognition. Not just satisfied with looking good, the Sp 3 strives to BE good. They are determined to be a good person; to match the perfect model of how a person should be. Being the perfect model of quality implies virtue, and virtue implies a lack of vanity. Sp 3s seek a sense of security through being good, working hard and being effective and productive.

    Self Preservation 4: "Tenacity"

    The Self Preservation 4 is long-suffering. As the countertype of the 4s, Sp 4s are stoic in the face of their inner pain and they don’t share it with others as much as the other two 4s. This is a person who learns to tolerate pain and to do without as a way of earning love. Instead of dwelling in envy, Sp 4s act out their envy by working hard to get what others have and they lack. More masochistic and less melodramatic, these Fours demand a lot of themselves, have a strong need to endure and have a passion for effort.

    Sexual 5: "Confidence"

    Sexual 5s express avarice through a search for exemplars of absolute love. This is a 5 with a romantic streak. The name reflects their need to find a partner who fulfills an ideal of trust. The most emotionally sensitive of the 5s, they suffer more, resemble type 4 more and have more overt desires. They have a vibrant inner life that may be expressed through artistic creation but are still cut off from others in many ways.

    Sexual 6: "Strength/Beauty

    Sexual 6s express fear by going against fear; by becoming strong and intimidating. Trusting themselves more than others, these 6s have the inner programming that when you are afraid, the best defense is a good offense. They take on a powerful stance both in what they do and how they look, as a way of holding the enemy at a distance. Their anxiety is allayed through skill and readiness in the face of an attack.

    Social 7: "Sacrifice"

    As the countertype, Social 7s go against gluttony through conscientious efforts to be of service to others, Conscious of wanting to avoid exploiting others, they have a need to be good and pure and to sacrifice their own needs in supporting the needs of others. They have a passion for being seen as good for the sacrifice of their own desires. They express an ascetic ideal and make a virtue of getting by on little. They express idealism and enthusiasm as a way of making themselves feel active and valued in the world.

    Social 8: "Solidarity"

    Social 8s express lust and aggression in the service of others. A social antisocial person, this is the countertype of the 8s, a helpful 8 who appears less aggressive and more loyal than the other two 8 subtypes. The name “Solidarity” emphasizes their tendency to offer help when people need protection.

    Social 9: "Participation"

    Social 9s fuse with groups. They act out of laziness when connecting with their own inner life by working hard to be part of the different groups in their lives. Fun-loving, sociable and congenial characters, Social 9s can be workaholics, prioritizing the group’s needs above their own. This high level of activity makes them the countertype of the three 9 subtypes.
    Last edited by silke; 09-16-2017 at 04:22 AM.

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    "In Spanish I can imitate a German accent very well" haha

    I still don't get why he and everybody else says all sx 6s are counterphobic. Countergluttony is an interesting concept for 7s though, I've been humoring the idea of possible counter-types for all types and not just 6s.
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    I really havent found the counter idea useful, to be honest. Stress reactions seem moderately more useful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    I still don't get why he and everybody else says all sx 6s are counterphobic. Countergluttony is an interesting concept for 7s though, I've been humoring the idea of possible counter-types for all types and not just 6s.
    I had that very same idea after listening through his lecture, that all types seem to have counterphobic representatives. My general impression from his words was that it's the sx variants that are the ones acting counterphobically (and usually in direct opposition to what he described of socials). The sx 4 resists own suffering and instead projects it onto others. The sx 2 may play a sort of Helen of Troy character and instead of striving to become universally liked seeks to become the focal point of strife and conflict. The sx 1 resists abiding rules of propriety and challenges conventions in favor of exerting its own will (like that little boy who asked "why not?" when he was being reprimanded). The sx 5 instead of looking to associate with something great and extraordinary is looking for someone who could accept them warts and all, with all their inner demons (and the more demons the other can accept - the better, so they may even start cultivating these and move in the opposite direction of greatness). The sx 8 is anti-social and challenges power instead of seeking out power as is usually prescribed to 8s. The social variants in comparison sounded more like the conventional representations of types.

    My impression of the sx instinct has been that, if primary, it leads the person to want to exert his or her life force over the environment and their circumstances. However, enneagram main types, being closely related to neuroses, would then serve as an impediment - something that is limiting to or diminishing of one's life force, of one's being. This, in a way, possibly leads sx variants to defy their main type, to confront their own fears and fixations, to challenge themselves and go outside the limitations that were imposed on them. Life for the sake of affirmation of life, a force that is exerted against itself for its own expansion. One can say that sx's may exhibit something like reaction formation where in order to compensate they may start exaggerating opposing tendencies, which would then manifest as "counterphobic" attitudes and behaviors. In his descriptions of 6s Naranjo at some point says that "sexual fear is the turning against fear". This "turning against itself" from his coverage of other sx variants I'd say can be applied to them all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    I had that very same idea after listening through his lecture, that all types seem to have counterphobic representatives. My general impression from his words was that it's the sx variants that are the ones acting counterphobically (and usually in direct opposition to what he described of socials). The sx 4 resists own suffering and instead projects it onto others. The sx 2 may play a sort of Helen of Troy character and instead of striving to become universally liked seeks to become the focal point of strife and conflict. The sx 1 resists abiding rules of propriety and challenges conventions in favor of exerting its own will (like that little boy who asked "why not?" when he was being reprimanded). The sx 5 instead of looking to associate with something great and extraordinary is looking for someone who could accept them warts and all, with all their inner demons (and the more demons the other can accept - the better, so they may even start cultivating these and move in the opposite direction of greatness). The sx 8 is anti-social and challenges power instead of seeking out power as is usually prescribed to 8s. The social variants in comparison sounded more like the conventional representations of types.

    My impression of the sx instinct has been that, if primary, it leads the person to want to exert his or her life force over the environment and their circumstances. However, enneagram main types, being closely related to neuroses, would then serve as an impediment - something that is limiting to or diminishing of one's life force, of one's being. This, in a way, possibly leads sx variants to defy their main type, to confront their own fears and fixations, to challenge themselves and go outside the limitations that were imposed on them. Life for the sake of affirmation of life, a force that is exerted against itself for its own expansion. One can say that sx's may exhibit something like reaction formation where in order to compensate they may start exaggerating opposing tendencies, which would then manifest as "counterphobic" attitudes and behaviors. In his descriptions of 6s Naranjo at some point says that "sexual fear is the turning against fear". This "turning against itself" from his coverage of other sx variants I'd say can be applied to them all.
    I love everything about this.

    I had the chance to have an in-depth conversation with my best friend, an sx 9w8, about something very similar to this. From what he told me he actively seeks to escape his own sense of emotional numbness, instead of welcoming it like the other variants of 9 seem to do.


    I've never felt myself to be strictly "counterphobic" as a lot of the type descriptions portray. Whatever counterphobia I may have isn't so much a knee-jerk reaction as it is me consciously acknowledging the anxiety I have, understanding what's causing it, what can be done to alleviate it, and taking action to ensure that the fear is eventally eliminated. I do, however, tend to react very strongly towards people who I perceive as a threat, both in the immediate physical sense but perhaps more intellectually as well (spreading "false" information, undeserved self-righteousness, etc); maybe the 5 wing also plays a part in this. I rarely ever get so pissed off by people so as to lash out towards them though.

    I guess I find that the more anxious about something I am, the more I become simultaneously psychically paralyzed and stimulated: "I'm afraid to do this, so I won't. But I know that if I do it, it'll be better for me in the long run. But it could fuck me over in the long run! But if I don't do it I'll stay this tense about it forever!" This self-contradiction builds up a lot of internal friction, which comes off externally as disinterest and aloofness but inside there's a 15 pound stone just sitting on my chest, begging to be pushed off. Eventually though, the desire to persevere despite the presence of fear wins out.
    Last edited by Galen; 04-20-2012 at 09:26 PM.
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    Naranjo makes me happy. <3 He seems like a big goofball.

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    wait, so (i know this is a really old post but...) where is this from?
    EDIT: p.s. holy shit haha! "sin of cain"! mm...
    "If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann

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    I couldnt listen to him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pluie View Post
    wait, so (i know this is a really old post but...) where is this from?
    EDIT: p.s. holy shit haha! "sin of cain"! mm...
    he did a presentation at one of the IEA conferences, I think it was '04 one, the links were audio recordings from that meet, and the stuff in spoiler is a summary of his talk that i found posted elsewhere

    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae2point0 View Post
    I couldnt listen to him.
    the recordings were available only for a short time, they are down now

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    No, I mean that I couldnt listen (it was painful for me to follow) when they were available. I would like to understand his insights, but the way in which he spoke drove me up the wall to the point that I couldnt pay attention.

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    This is pretty interesting siuntal, I should read one of Naranjo's books... probably character and neurosis... been browsing on amazon.

    And I already got a few good ideas from him already.

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    Yeah, I think reading would be easier for me. His speech is too much for me to organize in any useful way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    7 self-pres - Keeper of the castle, makes alliances, family oriented, but not in the real sense of the word. The family game can be played anywhere - "I'll be family with you and expect same of you; we band together to create a mafia." Partisanship, corruption. Self-interest is behind the alliance, but it's denied. Opportunistic. Has to make every experience into an advantage. Gluttony is excessive concern for self-preservation so they make deals at every possible opportunity. There is no conversation that doesn't lead to business - nose is always in the air for opportunity.
    That description above is definitely more tailored to suit sp/so rather than sp/sx.. I'm a 7 sp/sx and this does a very good job of describing me:

    Self-pres/Sexual

    This subtype is similar to the self-pres/social, but their plans and pursuits are more passionate in nature. There is often more of an artistic flair. They can be moodier then the other subtype. Their focus is more on relationships, although commitment can also be a problem for this subtype. This subtype can even be known to use introspection as an escape. They can go inward with a seeming depth, but they will usually avoid the most troublesome areas, the areas and characteristics most painful to them.

    This subtype of Seven is overall more focused than the self-pres/social. Their focus is on their intimates although certainly not solely on them as they usually have many other fires burning also. They generally have a great sense of humor, sharp quick minds and many interests. These qualities might be common to all subtypes of the Seven, but in the self-pres/sexual subtype, the infusion of enthusiasm comes through when they are engaged in their plans and fulfilling them.



    I'm not the nesting type or family oriented like sp/ so usually is, I don't really care to form alliances for my self-interests either - I'm too socially un aware. My sp instinct is basically guarding my time, privacy, and energy, worrying about health & self-care...but, craving intense experiences & people outside of myself. My sp usually wins out although I have a tendency to compensate by indulging in a wide range of multimedia, fantasy and in the past foods, drinks.

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    Its not really off base, but I am kind of curious as to how see 7+INFp works.

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    This makes me think im more 5sx than 6so

    How accurate is this?
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Creepy-pokeball

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    idk =p but keep out of my castle unless youre my kin, thx

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    This is pretty interesting siuntal, I should read one of Naranjo's books... probably character and neurosis... been browsing on amazon.

    And I already got a few good ideas from him already.
    @Jadae Character and Neurosis is pretty damn good.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae2point0 View Post
    Its not really off base, but I am kind of curious as to how see 7+INFp works.
    are you asking me something here? i don't understand...

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    I am asking you how it makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae2point0 View Post
    Its not really off base, but I am kind of curious as to how see 7+INFp works.
    Well, I know that a lot of type 7 descriptions imply that all 7's must be EXXp. Truth is they aren't good descriptions.. 7's can be introverts/ ambiverts.. especially 7's of certain tritypes and instinct stackings. I always knew 7 was my head center in my tritype but dismissed it as my main type because I thought being an INFp 7 was impossible.. because most descriptions implyed that you had to be extroverted.

    After much pondering I'm pretty certain I'm a core type 7. I'm simply more of an "in my head" pleasure seeker... but a 7 none the less. When I'm unhealthy I definitely disintegrate into 1 and it aint pretty! When I was depressed I thought my main type was a 1.. I always had a perfectionistic streak but depression really brings it out along with rigidity. Now I don't even relate to one at all. Type 4 is a close second in my tritype but I'm definitely more idea oriented and mercurial and less comfortable with negative feelings. I prefer to ignore them completely or use positive self-talk... I prefer to always be happy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diam0nd View Post
    Well, I know that a lot of type 7 descriptions imply that all 7's must be EXXp. Truth is they aren't good descriptions.. 7's can be introverts/ ambiverts.. especially 7's of certain tritypes and instinct stackings. I always knew 7 was my head center in my tritype but dismissed it as my main type because I thought being an INFp 7 was impossible.. because most descriptions implyed that you had to be extroverted.
    Truth is you're actually going against a set system that do not allows you to change your E-type for it doesn't change checking with Enneagram scriptures and masters of it. It's the same thing with Jung and MBTI, the latter treats it as a fact, the existence of it, the existence of types - it takes Jung's metaphysical babble and applies it, not to mention Jung wrote heavily on matters of good and evil and was more fond of the gnostic approach than the Christian one if one is to discriminate.

    After much pondering I'm pretty certain I'm a core type 7. I'm simply more of an "in my head" pleasure seeker... but a 7 none the less. When I'm unhealthy I definitely disintegrate into 1 and it aint pretty! When I was depressed I thought my main type was a 1.. I always had a perfectionistic streak but depression really brings it out along with rigidity. Now I don't even relate to one at all. Type 4 is a close second in my tritype but I'm definitely more idea oriented and mercurial and less comfortable with negative feelings. I prefer to ignore them completely or use positive self-talk... I prefer to always be happy.
    You've got a problem now.

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    You have 1 notification

    ..Absurd quoted your post

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    In addition to sx/1 (excerpt from Naranjo's workshop)

    sx- zeal. in spanish, "zeal" means "the animal in heat". the most free of the One subtypes. A passion fo being a righteous person (vs. getting it right or to be right).Translates into the attempt to be perfect "so I will be loved". A passion to think right in order to give brilliance to your being. More Eight -like.

    more abt other types and subtypes:
    http://www.breakoutofthebox.com/NaranjoSubtypes.pdf

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    Everytime I read stuff about enneagram, I get lost in all the inconsistencies.

    From the OP I would think the following might describe me (though there were parts of the description that didn't fit):
    7sx dreamer, passion to imagine something better than (stark) reality
    1sp passion for worrying, need to know what's going to happen, must have everything taken care of
    5sx looking to trust in another, very easily disappointed.
    6sp fear of no protection, alliance former "I won't hurt you, you won't hurt me", allows too much ambiguity ((which directly conflicts with 1sp!!!))
    6sx counterphobic, turns against fears ((brought up from 1sp and 6sp)), more bark than bite.
    (7sx, 1sp, and 6sx are the ones people around me would notice very quickly.)

    From the pdf that miss BabyDoll posted, most of it didn't seem to make any sense to me (in terms of finding something that might fit). The closest I got was:
    1sp Worry
    6sp Harmlessness
    6sx "It's not courage, it's panic!" ((i loved that response, and immediately thought "Exactly!"))

    Despite thinking the above fit me best of the rest, I would be pretty ticked if someone insisted on interpreting the rest of the descriptions for those as fitting.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    When Naranjo describes 6sp & 7sp he uses the word family; they both have a need to build family, or alliances. The sp6 description was a bit warmer and the sp7 description was a bit more opportunistic, but other other than that they seemed pretty similar in this sense.

    Can anyone elaborate more on the differences between these two types regarding this aspect?

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