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Thread: a weird question

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    ok, so basically I'd like to ask something weird

    If I think back to my childhood (I have very good autobiographical memory), I just can't see as much Ne as Se. I was an uncontrollable child, if I wanted something, I would get it, and I was pretty material; though at the same time somehow the world didn't totally make sense (that may have been Ti wondering though). Anyway, I wasn't looking at implicit possibilities like I do now. I just took things for granted and again, if I wanted something from someone I kept asking, and asking until they managed to stop me, and didn't get very upset about refusal either. Actually my mother could never stop me, she just resigned to doing everything I asked her to do. In games all I would think of was winning, just because, no reason beyond that. I was best in school too... I was very motivated to be best in everything. I even asked myself why it matters so much and I didn't know the answer beyond "because" and no, it wasn't my parents telling me to be good at school, because nobody could tell me anyway what to do. All in all, the first thing people would tell me about how I was: "forceful". (second trait they'd list was "helpful")

    Now, I was like this until age 13. Then I somehow started to realize that maybe I needed to uh, in socionics terms, develop some Fe/Fi and pay more attention to people. I wasn't very successful at that, so I just forced myself to be inactive. Well sometimes I would still create conflicts, but tried hard not to. A few years later I read some really interesting book (from the socionics viewpoint this book was something like Ni), and from then on the next couple of years I started to become very abstracted, theorizing about the world, intangible stuff, and eventually became disconnected from the tangible world. I remember myself being upset about how I could somehow not "access" or handle tangible things anymore. No I wasn't going mad. I guess over a couple more years I got some of that ability back but I just could never be like I used to be anymore. I also noticed that I could not focus on winning stuff as much anymore, I would just get stressed instead, thinking various ways I could fail and that would make me somewhat disinterested, though I still have quite some of this desire to win in things against people...just less confident than I used to be. But overall I'm still very confident in myself.

    So, when I started playing with theories after that book stuff, at the same time I got used to seeing things beyond the surface where I always wanted to look anyway. No longer "as is". I guess I can still do the "as is" stuff in a few areas in life, but most often I'm just very abstract and generalized and I enjoy this. I also got more accepting of how people are or how they could be, not categorizing/looking down on some of them (ok, maybe I sometimes still do but I then try to forget about it...I like the idea of being equal). What I don't enjoy is that I definitely got clumsier and pretty insecure about how to handle physical objects/tasks etc. etc. I actually need external help in these things now. But eh, I can live with that. Oh and another thing I don't enjoy... I still naturally ask people to do this or that, but if I see from their reaction that they didn't like this, I'll get unsure about if I really want it still, then I get uncomfortable and forget about it - could be also better Fe/Fi, maybe.

    Then there is the relationships theory in socionics, I should be "infantile", but I'm not. A lot of the things from "aggressor" and "victim" fit instead. I'm undecided which one is closer to me but probably aggressor because I require devotion and hate it if I don't get it. Yet I can get unsure like victim.

    Eh, so I'm pretty sure I'm ILE, but I just don't see myself as a typical ILE when I was younger. Maybe I'm wrong and ILE's all start out this way? But this almost sounds like to me that my leading and role functions switched over slowly. If I go by the socionics definition of Se, which should be role function for me, it definitely got weaker as I got older... shouldn't the role function go the opposite direction instead, that is, get somewhat stronger, more consistent? What's your opinion about that possibility in terms of the current socionics theory? Actually, maybe it's not the Ne stuff, but Ni suggestive? The theory says, suggestive can't be supplied to yourself on your own, though.

    ps: The only thing for sure is I was always a Ti/Fe valuer, as a child too.

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    its because socionics isnt real. you can make up a theoretical explanation if you want but it won't be any truer than anything anybody else makes up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    its because socionics isnt real. you can make up a theoretical explanation if you want but it won't be any truer than anything anybody else makes up.
    I know that, what I want to know is what the current theory says about this possibility.

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    nothing, "officially," afaik.

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    Hello, I'm ILE-Ti too with lots of apparent Se (most people here still type me SeTi) and I've been wondering the same.

    Do you have anyone close to you with strong Se?
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Hello, I'm ILE-Ti too with lots of apparent Se (most people here still type me SeTi) and I've been wondering the same.

    Do you have anyone close to you with strong Se?
    I once dated someone who may have been SEE, definitely strong Se-leading and I remember it very well. We were just fine together (until I got bored of him). why do you ask though?

    I saw your posts before btw , what's Se in your behaviour like in real life?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    nothing, "officially," afaik.
    and unofficially?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    and unofficially?
    shrug, thats where making stuff up comes in. i'm not interested in doing that. sorry for farting in your thread lol bye

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    shrug, thats where making stuff up comes in. i'm not interested in doing that. sorry for farting in your thread lol bye
    my view is, it would be nice to develop the theory further to fit it to reality more. no worries, btw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    I once dated someone who may have been SEE, definitely strong Se-leading and I remember it very well. We were just fine together (until I got bored of him). why do you ask though?
    I thought that you might have kinda "learned" it from someone. My mother is ESI-Se and my first girlfriend was ESI-Se too.

    Also, I have an extensive mental disorder history and as most models of explanation such as Socionics are based on "how it normally happens", all kinds of psychological deviations would easily provide visible imperfections in the model. How about your mentality?
    Last edited by Aquagraph; 04-18-2012 at 05:13 PM.
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    You seem alpha irrational to me. Perhaps reconsider.
    "We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    I thought that you might have kinda "learned" it from someone. My mother is ESI-Se and my first girlfriend was ESI-Se too.

    Also, I have an extensive mental disorder history and as most models of explanation such as Socionics are based on "how it normally happens", all kinds of psychological deviations would easily provide visible imperfections in the model. How about your mentality?
    no, I didn't learn it from him haha. Actually I liked the Se stuff in him, it felt very natural to just go and do things without contemplating. edit: one thing though... he displayed very typical aggressor behaviour and I just went with it fine, but probably because I wanted the same things anyway.

    ESI-Se...did they ever feel like conflictors to you? and how about now, do they feel like that to you?

    my mentality was always fine. so no, it's not explained by that.

    I read somewhere about dualization, that book I mentioned definitely inspired me...something like that. until reading that book, I was pretty much just Se by definition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobVillain View Post
    You seem alpha irrational to me. Perhaps reconsider.
    I'm only talking about younger years here, now I do have some alpha values now, yeah. I consider myself ILE in the system but atypical ILE.

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    i brought smilingeyes up in chat and i'll bring him up again here for @Aquagraph to reference. the relevant threads are in the chat archive but i don't feel like digging them up.

    he was into type change and according to him you could move from SLE to ILE and he has this whole theory built around it. it could probably apply if you want.

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    I'll try to make a reply when I have more time and less alcohol. I'm very interested although I skimmed the original post and spared explicating many parts of my stance I'd consider possibly interesting or contributing to the topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    i brought smilingeyes up in chat and i'll bring him up again here for @Aquagraph to reference. the relevant threads are in the chat archive but i don't feel like digging them up.

    he was into type change and according to him you could move from SLE to ILE and he has this whole theory built around it. it could probably apply if you want.

    hey, thanks, I would really appreciate it!

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    you were there in chat when those posts were linked?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    I'll try to make a reply when I have more time and less alcohol. I'm very interested although I skimmed the original post and spared explicating many parts of my stance I'd consider possibly interesting or contributing to the topic.

    okay, I'll be very curious to hear more from you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    you were there in chat when those posts were linked?
    nope, sorry, I didn't notice them in the chat... can you link them here?

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    you can click the "polygon of affection" at the top and it will bring you to the archives and you can skim through there. it was just this morning while you were here. you could type "smilingeyes" into the search bar.

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    For a type change to be possible, that is, a particular IE taking over another thus making the latter insignificant, you're not who you are nor claim to be in the first place. Furthermore, it is impossible to even pinpoint your type as far as socionics goes, not only socionics actually, but this a socionics forum after all so I'm going to rest at it. I mean, heh, how the heck one is going to do that when the sole notion of type change implies that "it" is changing. This is bullshit.

    It is not when you capture your type one day and decide you're IEI for instance. Next day, SLI. Third day EIE and so on. Having captured all of the types, you're going to move onto subtypes. Cycle continues. Anyhow, being all types and all subtypes, you have a lot to choose from, which still means you're not going to be able to pinpoint your type.

    Plus you're a smiley guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    you can click the "polygon of affection" at the top and it will bring you to the archives and you can skim through there. it was just this morning while you were here. you could type "smilingeyes" into the search bar.
    sorry, I didn't find it in the chat archives.

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    thats too bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    For a type change to be possible, that is, a particular IE taking over another thus making the latter insignificant, you're not who you are nor claim to be in the first place. Furthermore, it is impossible to even pinpoint your type as far as socionics goes, not only socionics actually, but this a socionics forum after all so I'm going to rest at it. I mean, heh, how the heck one is going to do that when the sole notion of type change implies that "it" is changing. This is bullshit.

    It is not when you capture your type one day and decide you're IEI for instance. Next day, SLI. Third day EIE and so on. Having captured all of the types, you're going to move onto subtypes. Cycle continues. Anyhow, being all types and all subtypes, you have a lot to choose from, which still means you're not going to be able to pinpoint your type.

    Plus you're a smiley guy.

    well I always thought I was ILE-Ti (I've been familiar with socionics since last year). but I was always confused because my Ne stuff is just... not as scattered. oh sometimes it is, but I cannot tolerate it when it wants to get too scattered so I rein it in. and my Se is just not like ILE. I don't think Se for me has been made completely insignificant, but it's not like leading Se either.

    no worries, I'm not going to suddenly think I'm SLI or whatever BS. I'm definitely sticking to Ti/Fe and Ti subtype. I don't care about DCNH.

    by "it" changing, I just mean that according to theory.

    PS: I'm not a guy! I'm female.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    well I always thought I was ILE-Ti (I've been familiar with socionics since last year). but I was always confused because my Ne stuff is just... not as scattered. oh sometimes it is, but I cannot tolerate it when it wants to get too scattered so I rein it in. and my Se is just not like ILE. I don't think Se for me has been made completely insignificant, but it's not like leading Se either.
    Well then, as long theory (socionics theory) is concerned you're Ti subtype and that's how you refer to yourself. Ti subtype, not Ne subtype ILE.

    by "it" changing, I just mean that according to theory.
    Don't think theory states that it is prone to change. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

    PS: I'm not a guy! I'm female.
    Ahh sorry, didn't read your first post - way too many words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Well then, as long theory (socionics theory) is concerned you're Ti subtype and that's how you refer to yourself. Ti subtype, not Ne subtype ILE.



    Don't think theory states that it is prone to change. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.



    Ahh sorry, didn't read your first post - way too many words.

    what are you trying to say by pointing it out I'm not Ne subtype (as that's obvious)?

    I don't think so either, that's why I've been wondering.

    hm, and why does everyone here have such a short attention span?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    what are you trying to say by pointing it out I'm not Ne subtype (as that's obvious)?
    It is self-explanatory.

    I just said what you have said, that you're Ti subtype, that you found Ti subtype to be more fitting, which means it leaves out Ne subtype. You wrote your "Ne" isn't that scattered as you hoped it to be, which still indicates Ti subtype, which further means your primary confusion stems from not being able to differentiate between Se role and Ne role.

    I don't think so either, that's why I've been wondering.
    It doesn't.

    hm, and why does everyone here have such a short attention span?
    I'm just impatient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    It is self-explanatory.

    I just said what you have said, that you're Ti subtype, that you found Ti subtype to be more fitting, which means it leaves out Ne subtype. You wrote your "Ne" isn't that scattered as you hoped it to be, which still indicates Ti subtype, which further means your primary confusion stems from not being able to differentiate between Se role and Ne role.
    I assumed this is what you meant but better make sure.

    as for differentiating between role functions; what would be the best way to do that?

    btw I don't "hope" it to be scattered, I don't tolerate it well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    as for differentiating between role functions; what would be the best way to do that?
    It's not only role functions. As a matter of fact you would be unsure of whether you're a sensor or intuitive in this scenario. Are you sensor or intuitive?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    It's not only role functions. As a matter of fact you would be unsure of whether you're a sensor or intuitive in this scenario. Are you sensor or intuitive?
    intuitive now, sensor as a child up to 18-20 years old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    intuitive now, sensor as a child up to 18-20 years old.
    I'm not going to continue this. Get in touch with that guy who invented "type change."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    I'm not going to continue this. Get in touch with that guy who invented "type change."
    heh, it's not something you invent, it either exists or not.

    btw, I'm being serious, even if it sounded like taking the piss.

    but actually that does sum up my first post pretty well. I just described the details of how I was before and after change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    heh, it's not something you invent, it either exists or not.

    btw, I'm being serious, even if it sounded like taking the piss.

    but actually that does sum up my first post pretty well. I just described the details of how I was before and after change.
    IEs do not exist in material world. Anyway, I'm going to bite, for you imply that it does exist which makes smilingeyes theory to be true and any other theory. It means it was all the time there and one had just to give it a name. It doesn't surprise me at all knowing that he went with a few type shifts himself. Once being intuitive, ethical then resting on sensor and logical. Fine.

    My only qualms are the same as those I mentioned earlier. The notion of changing type renders socionics useless as any other theory that dabbles in typology, which means, you're not going to get an answer and your efforts and presence on this board and any other board dealing with typology, is just a waste of your time and those responding to you.

    If that's how you are now, then you have your answer and it is not ILE. Problem is, what you're going to be, say, in 10 days or a year - ethical, intuitive, sensor or logical?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    IEs do not exist in material world. Anyway, I'm going to bite, for you imply that it does exist which makes smilingeyes theory to be true and any other theory. It means it was all the time there and one had just to give it a name. It doesn't surprise me at all knowing that he went with a few type shifts himself. Once being intuitive, ethical then resting on sensor and logical. Fine.

    My only qualms are the same as those I mentioned earlier. The notion of changing type renders socionics useless as any other theory that dabbles in typology, which means, you're not going to get an answer and your efforts and presence on this board and any other board dealing with typology, is just a waste of your time and those responding to you.

    If that's how you are now, then you have your answer and it is not ILE. Problem is, what you're going to be, say, in 10 days or a year - ethical, intuitive, sensor or logical?
    I don't even know what smilingeyes theory is like, I didn't have THAT long of an attention span to read those threads in the end

    I don't know what's wrong with the idea of type change, this is how I see the thing: we (our brains) all have certain ways of working and the typology theories try to describe that, but it's not as clear-cut in nature as distinct "functions". Plus the brain is very malleable especially in the first 25 years of life or so but even after that too. So it could be possible that the emphasis on stuff changes and the brain can change a few things (not ALL of course), manifesting in things such as getting more clumsy about dealing with physical things in my case.

    anyway, OK, then can you tell me if you could imagine me as SLE-Ti instead of ILE-Ti? based on what I've posted so far, etc. etc. or is Se-leading totally out of the question in your opinion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Problem is, what you're going to be, say, in 10 days or a year - ethical, intuitive, sensor or logical?
    why is this a problem?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    I don't know what's wrong with the idea of type change, this is how I see the thing: we (our brains) all have certain ways of working and the typology theories try to describe that, but it's not as clear-cut in nature as distinct "functions". Plus the brain is very malleable especially in the first 25 years of life or so but even after that too.So it could be possible that the emphasis on stuff changes and the brain can change a few things (not ALL of course), manifesting in things such as getting more clumsy about dealing with physical things in my case.
    That looks like you're talking about brain damage resulting from some accident or mental disorder where patient (you) is treated with direct current to stimulate the motor cortex resulting in and thus "bettering" the execution of voluntary movements.

    anyway, OK, then can you tell me if you could imagine me as SLE-Ti instead of ILE-Ti? based on what I've posted so far, etc. etc. or is Se-leading totally out of the question in your opinion?
    I can only tell something based on what you have said in this thread. I don't know you. So far all I've got is you wanting to be sensor but failing at it, so it goes back to ILE. That is, you're presenting me with a side of yourself, your true side just to negate it in other post.

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    why is this a problem?
    Taking into account the possibility of type change, voluntarily type change that is, it leaves you with a full set of options to choose from, which means that any attempt a typing oneself is bound to fail, for there is no anchor to ground you, no personality to be found, no "I".

    That further means, you're not any of those 16 types proposed by this theory.

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    lump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Taking into account the possibility of type change, voluntarily type change that is, it leaves you with a full set of options to choose from, which means that any attempt a typing oneself is bound to fail, for there is no anchor to ground you, no personality to be found, no "I".
    nah, wrong, you can have an "I" completely independent of anything having to do with type.

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    You write a lot, why did you write so much...

    I want pix, also what is your question...

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