Blaming yourself

[aixelsyd]

Taking blame for everything that goes wrong or else projecting that sense of guilt onto everyone else? Who here does it? Why do it? I could say it was how I was trained to think and feel, but I can also say there is a way to end it. Do you have a hard time finding happiness and acceptance because you carry some long-term guilt in your heart?

[force my hand]

Can you provide an example?

I ask because I don't have much familiarity with this sort of thing - I think. I've never had too much trouble demarcating respective spheres of responsibility.

[aixelsyd]

Example...kind of hard. But I'm thinking in terms of the sort of people who carry some guilt around. Perhaps it's from emotional baggage from the past, or they experienced some trauma that they feel ashamed of and feel like what negative experience they had was their fault, or being belittled over time so often that a person subconsciously believes they are inferior and blame themselves for being this way and blame themselves when things around them go wrong.

I'm also thinking of how sometimes people carry this guilt and yet try to disown it and project their faults onto other people to make themselves feel absolved of negative traits they possess by assigning it to something external.

I know people, including myself, who are like this and it really can bring out the ugliness in a person. Though I guess the reason I am asking is because I think a number of people do it but not a lot seem accustomed to facing themselves as it's hard to do. I'm inclined, however, to try and face these things, even if it's painful and even if doing something about it is hard work because I believe it's somehow the right thing to do sooner or later.

I like to think it's something like coming out where you deep down know you are different and know where your preferences lie but don't want to really admit it for what it is to yourself or to others and so to start the process of dealing with it and being done with it (well, I don't think one is ever done with it, but I know it helps really dealing with it). But I'll leave it at that before rambling on.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Perhaps its a self-defense mechanism against social phobia. You might feel if you take the blame yourself, people won't talk with your or deal with you in any way. It also is subconsciously turning everything around into an authority game, which makes you feel safe in a way.

[JWC3]

Example...kind of hard. But I'm thinking in terms of the sort of people who carry some guilt around. Perhaps it's from emotional baggage from the past, or they experienced some trauma that they feel ashamed of and feel like what negative experience they had was their fault, or being belittled over time so often that a person subconsciously believes they are inferior and blame themselves for being this way and blame themselves when things around them go wrong.

I'm also thinking of how sometimes people carry this guilt and yet try to disown it and project their faults onto other people to make themselves feel absolved of negative traits they possess by assigning it to something external.

I know people, including myself, who are like this and it really can bring out the ugliness in a person. Though I guess the reason I am asking is because I think a number of people do it but not a lot seem accustomed to facing themselves as it's hard to do. I'm inclined, however, to try and face these things, even if it's painful and even if doing something about it is hard work because I believe it's somehow the right thing to do sooner or later.

I like to think it's something like coming out where you deep down know you are different and know where your preferences lie but don't want to really admit it for what it is to yourself or to others and so to start the process of dealing with it and being done with it (well, I don't think one is ever done with it, but I know it helps really dealing with it). But I'll leave it at that before rambling on.

I think there are certainly parts of what you said that could be attributed to one type or one element, but instead of saying "this sentence references this element and this one that" I'm going to indulge myself a little and just address the idea of what you're saying.


To me, what your describing is something that any type could experience. Granted I don't know anyone who actually has gone through this in real life but I am familiar with the idea from literature and media and such. In short I would say such a situation would arise not because of an individual's type but because they are overwhelmed by their circumstances. What I mean by that is that either their social environment, their work environment, their physical surroundings or some other external factor make them feel both trapped and to blame for what's happened.

Personally the time I've felt most depressed in my life was when I thought I was surrounded by people who hated me, the depressing part wasn't that they hated me but that I felt like I put myself in that position and couldn't do anything about it. I was the outcast of the outcast crowd at school. Then I realized that If I put myself in that situation to begin with then I could just put myself in another situation that was better, and I did. I made new friends, I left my old 'friends' behind and have had a better life ever since.

I think that the feeling that your describing and what I went through are universal in human behavior but what changes based on type is the cause. For me it was being surrounded by people who hated me, for another type it might be something else that I have no idea about. I really don't think I can have an idea of what it would be with regards to other types right now. I don't think I'm emotionally mature enough to figure that out with confidence but sure, there might be a connection.

That level of hurt and pain is so personal that I rarely share my experience with others and others rarely bring it up to me so I have no idea how such experiences would fit into socionics.

[Bardia]

I would second the idea that it may be a learned intra/interpersonal style. It might also be related to self-esteem. Sometimes its helpful to do a cost/benefit analysis of sorts. One can look at how even maladaptive behaviors are doing something good. For example, a lot of people who are addicted to drugs use drugs to cope with stressful situations. They never learned how to cope without drugs. Whatever is happening is trying to solve some sort of problem. Then you look at what the costs are for maintaining the same style.

So I guess maybe look at what is the guilt doing for me? Am I avoiding scary situations? or something else?

I haven't really experienced the sort of guilt you are describing so my ability to help is limited.

I hope this was helpful. Maybe if you wanted to share what you feel guilty about we could come up with some better stuff. No pressure though .

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

what has helped me in the past was to realize that all perceptions were true, and it helped ease some of the struggle/conflict.

IOW:

You are responsible for yourself.
You are also responsible for others.
You take part in what happens to the world, but so does everybody else.

YOU have eternal darkness in you that you never ever get rid of, but so does everybody else.
You are adorable, loveable, and compassionate- with many excellent qualities.

((well that last one I'm not sure I could extend it to everybody in the human race, because im so biased with my love for u.))

I love your light and I love your dark. I love u wookie.

((((wookie))))

[Creepy-pokeball]

I dont really blame myself. I get nervous at the idea of fucking up or making bad judgements, but I do not really blame myself. I am fairly hypervigilant in autocorrecting my mistakes as best as I can. My assumption is that I am already self-critical enough, which is taking the place of the void this topic represents. From what I recall, psychological introverts (not socionics) are more likely to self-blame and self-doubt.

[blackburry]

I've fallen in relationships where the guys do something wrong: ie aren't faithful though a monogomous relationship has been established, by sex talking to women while in the bed next to me through text/facebook, by constantly lying to me about what they were doing, and yet I felt guilty when I finally snooped enough to find out what was actually happening around me. Manipulative people easily make others feel guilty by accusing the other person of not trusting them and for standing up for themselves. and somehow, someway I still end up blaming myself-- for not earning enough $ for example or for not having enough close friends that are easily avaiable for dinners, or for not being interesting enough or for being a prude when I'm unhappy/don't trust someone for....the list goes on, and it's like not until I've hit rock bottom with someone do I finally have the balls to say "FUCK you, It's not me, it never was me, you are psycho and you have mommy issues."

[Absurd]

Do you have a hard time finding happiness and acceptance because you carry some long-term guilt in your heart?

Nope.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

no matter how aware we are, guilt-trips never end ;you just have to learn how to make them shorter and mmmaybe do something to smoothen out the outcome of your words or actions.like,we decide to let society in with every chaotic and negative aspect this can bring,so apparently it is going to be a never-ending series of realizations about how stupidly we act.esp YOU as persons who actively pursue self-understanding can see that we are not perfect and beside of that, our actions are only the tip of an iceberg.