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Thread: I feel ambivalent

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    Default I feel ambivalent.

    I'm usually pretty sure of my type but sometimes I notice anomalities so I would like to know your opinion. Below a few things will follow that I think are rather characteristic of me. I also tried to describe things that could be relevant from a socionics viewpoint, in no particular order though. Also, please don't try to guess type from my writing style here as that can change.


    - in general:
    I too easily sink into physical passivity but not into mental passivity. Yet I get stressed/restless when I'm physically passive for too long and then I might get energized/active but I feel this needs to be more often. Or I just get suddenly energized and set about something. Other than that I can be happy-ish for a long time to just sit and do things on the computer to keep at least my mind active. I also kind of feel addicted to company, that is, talking to people etc and can spend a lot of time on this even when I shouldn't waste time. :/

    I'm pretty focused when I'm set on getting to a goal, I can get very project-oriented and I like the goals big, long term, needing work. Buuut, if not busy with achieving something, I will just wander wherever my impulses take and the larger part of a day goes like this. A smaller part of the day is me being very focused on working on the longer term goals but it must be a daily activity, not much of "rest days". I don't usually know when I'm going to get down to work, I can't keep a strictly time based schedule, only a more general schedule. Btw, I've only done freelance work so far, no other style would fit me well.

    When getting to a concrete goal for my personal good over a longer time, the only way I will be able to do it well is if I set up a pretty demanding schedule for myself and try to execute it as much as possible because then I enjoy achieving work in progress in the moment here and now. Of course if the plan needs changes as I go ahead, I will readily change it no problem...the idea is just keep going, organization is more a side effect. Oh and I'm not too practical by default unless I'm set on a goal, then I'm very practical in a logical way if need be and it comes to me easily. I value other people's competency very much, but I ignore rules that I don't see as necessary and just go by my own head.

    If the goal is about creating something out of an idea that really grabbed me then I don't need a schedule to stay focused, the goal itself will keep me motivated very well until I get there. It simply inspires me so much that I don't think of much else while working on it. Those goals are not for my personal good either, more for other people's use and the more special/new/whatever they are, the better they inspire me.
    Also, if it's a concrete but longer term goal and if I meet temporary failures while trying to reach it, I'll take them for a while, but after several such failures I'll get really frustrated and it takes a few seconds of convincing myself to not give up...but I will not give up anyway, I go on after realizing that there must be another possibility, in a very optimistic way... Overall, I'm happiest in life when I can try a go at creating something that could really take people or a group of people forward.

    I love a deep understanding of things and I like and need structures to help with this but structure is soon changed when I figure out a new way of understanding instead. It's a lot better though if I can actually do something with it, make a nice project, make it become part of reality. I spend quite some time on figuring out things on a theoretical level, though when in the middle of action, I may not think as much, but I might start up analysing even then. So, I very much like discussion of understanding (my own and other people's) of things that I'm currently interested in. Those are often about implicit, not concrete but rather abstract things, and that enchants me like almost nothing else. I like it even more if the understanding improves. I can go pretty far from reality but then I must pull back into it if I think I got too far from it. Basically that means that I don't value ideas for themselves, only if I can have the hope that they will sooner or later actually lead somewhere, that is, make a theory better or lead me to make something in reality.

    In an existing community with people already having fun between each other, it's difficult for me to join until someone draws me in. By default I'm serious/detached and unsure and often stay that way unless people truly draw me in, then I'll have a chance to somehow "click" with them and I might lighten up then. It can take more than one try though to make sure I'm really "inside". At other times it will be me trying to draw people into a conversation but the topics I bring up may or may not interest everyone and I'll get very aware/get uncomfortable about whether I'm boring someone after I've tried nudging them. I'm not good at keeping fun going beyond some crappy jokes, so I'll just enjoy other people's stuff, also by showing my own genuine enthusiasm about something and that either works for someone to get interested or not but people often note that I look really enthusiastic about the things that I'm involved with. Oh and I don't like myself or anyone making conscious moral judgements of people, I'd like to believe most people are more complex than that but that's perhaps also an excuse for me trying to ignore this area.

    - in a relationship:
    I don't care to consciously evaluate relationship properties, but I'm acutely aware who I'd like to be close to and who I wouldn't like to be close with, the problem is I'm not great at bringing such interest further, I initiate communication readily but get easily discouraged if meeting disinterest. When in the mood, I initiate more superficial communication very easily and thus have a lot of acquaintances but not many friends. I think a deep relationship would be great but I'm not capable of creating it on my own and I have a very hard time truly opening up, so never really managed it in my whole life yet. If someone did manage to do it with me, it would have to be in an indirect way or something, I dunno exactly.

    I need emotional expression to know where we are emotionally, but not a load of negative drama please; of course if there is an issue, it should be directly expressed, emotions are of course needed to make the issue explicit, but then we have to get constructive in problem solving too. Beyond that I just want um.. nice emotions shown for me so I can be sure about that the person's feeling are positive toward me and thus the relationship status is good, because I'm terribly suspicious of it by default, and so I need a lot of reinforcement pretty often, though I won't talk about this to anyone.

    Also, very important, in a romantic relationship, I need the other person to be devoted to me because I will give the same devotion!, they also need to be tolerant as I'm also tolerant of many things. They must not be judging me in a static moralist way, not trying to make me feel guilty or anything. Oh and in non-romantic friendships, devotion is not applicable, but tolerance is still very much needed.

    I also gladly take some help in practical comfort matters. Generally I don't care about more than the basic needs in this area and I can take care of that myself (food, sleep, my looks - sensitive to my looks) while minimizing the time I spend on them, because expending energy on this stuff is very annoying due to my disinterest. An example, my flat is usually very messy because I rarely care enough about it, but at times I notice this, and it bothers me then but even then it takes a lot of self-convincing to start cleaning up, though once I do start, I will tend to do a lot of work, I just can't schedule it in nice small pieces. So, I appreciate it very much if I can rely on my partner to sort some of these annoying tasks for me. Though not the whole job, it would be weird if all my partner did was this. :S I believe in being equal.

    - what I really hate:
    If people are judging my (or other people's) character too often, I just can't deal with it.
    People saying "no" to me without reasoning why not; if there is a reason given then fine I respect that. Also, people ignoring me in certain cases, that just annoys me like nothing.
    I also don't like the following but I won't try to force anything because that's just not applicable in such cases, I'll just lose interest instead: if someone is not open to theorizing about stuff, that is, the overly practical approach, or just being overly rational, restricting options too much or simply not caring to share their thoughts.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    haha... would you read a shorter version, questionnaire, or you posted that out of boredom? pics are not an option, I don't trust VI.


    edit: ...For those with short attention spans:


    1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?

    Can't decide what function is strong enough to be leading function.

    2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?

    Answered in my first post (achieve & create great things, relationships).

    3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.

    Achieving a few things that I felt were great, created stuff for people that was like WOW (others liked them too, not just me!!).

    4) What makes you feel inferior?

    Unability to decide how to react in certain situations, mostly involving certain kinds of interaction/relationships with people.
    Certain practical tasks.

    5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)

    What I want to achieve, what things can help in that, what resources are needed.
    If other people are involved, ask them what they need.

    6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?

    who doesn't?

    7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it?

    things going well between me and people!

    8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)

    Need to see the structure of the thing, I can't do rote memorization, I will remember structure and meaning only. Because of the need to see and absorb structure, I may be slow initially but then I will have a deep understanding that I can use easily and confidently at will.
    With practical things, I must practice them first and I will often be clumsy initially.

    Example of language learning: step 1. find structure in language (yes, this means grammar but on an abstract level), 2. practice the structure usage a bit to remember it, 3. read a lot of books, before trying to talk much. 4. talk a lot, and then be fluent and have a very good knowledge of the language.

    9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?

    Can't keep a timetable, have nearly given up on trying. What works is only a general schedule of what I want in the near or longer future and me envisioning what I want.

    10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?

    Principles. I may absorb information slowly because exploration takes a long time.

    11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?

    What does "belonging to a given group" even mean? You mean making sure that there is no exclusion of anyone from the group when things are going nice? then yes!

    12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?

    Can't decide, all of this is fine. I don't need much thinking before speaking but sometimes I like to do the thinking first, depends on how the topic appears/how it stimulates me.

    13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?

    I want to know where I jump before leaping but not always. Both action and words are needed.

    14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?

    Dunno, I don't watch shows, but I could postpone it, I guess. However I first have to be convinced that it'll be really that great before I go out.

    15) How do you act when you're stressed out?

    First, will try to solve the problem as much as I can, if it's the kind of problem that I'm not good at dealing with, I'll be frustrated after a while and might totally withdraw to take some passive rest for a bit.

    16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?

    Answered at the end of first post.

    17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?

    Almost anything, I'm not limiting myself much, though discussing theories about anything are good.

    Fav. topics currently (this is subject to change!): certain computery stuff, cognitive psychology, certain sports

    18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life?

    taking care of physical needs, just eh.
    moral judgements.

    19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? What would your friends never say about your personality?

    curious, very smart, confident, a bit selfish, impatient, arrogant, stubborn, theorize too much, overly sensitive, insensitive, helpful, practical, impractical, somewhat naive.
    they're probably right. Yeah I know overly sensitive and insensitive (also practical and impractical) together seem like a logical inconsistency but it's not.

    20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?

    Feel like doing and actually doing are not the same thing for me as I may not do everything I think of...anyway, let's assume I do everything instead of that passivity/disorganization stuff I talked about in first post.

    Get up in the morning. Do some cool and intense work on my newest cool project, then go out for a 1.5 hour run in the woods here on the hills, then change into some cool dress and go out and meet 2 friends together, discuss some really interesting stuff, then go back and do work on another project that would be a mutual project with my partner, then go out again, now together with my partner and travel around just for fun (preferably some far place, but that will take more than a day). When I get sleepy I'll go to bed asap, hate staying up when too tired.

    Note: okay, what would probably happen in reality is: do some work, do the run, go out traveling around for a bit, do some things with my partner, chat a lot online
    Last edited by ambivalent existence; 04-16-2012 at 02:32 PM.

  4. #4
    Creepy-pokeball

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    We're kinda special here. We have the combined attention span of a may fly doped up on hormones. Maybe clarification and condensation would help, or you could throw poo like the rest of us.

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    irrational. Some Ip type. Also, you don't have to "trust" VI in order for it to possibly give us some clues.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by PokemonWidowJadae View Post
    We're kinda special here. We have the combined attention span of a may fly doped up on hormones. Maybe clarification and condensation would help, or you could throw poo like the rest of us.
    hahaha.

    well, I did condensate by replying to a questionnaire in my post above you. did you see that yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    irrational. Some Ip type. Also, you don't have to "trust" VI in order for it to possibly give us some clues.
    thanks, is that guess based on the questionnaire?

    IP type would mean Ni or Si dominant, right? what makes it seem like Si/Ni in my post? not trying to argue but that's like the last option I thought of so far. but I can be convinced of course, so that's why I'm asking what made you think of this possibility.

    ok, well, here's pics, but strictly only because I'm curious if it can actually give clues! please also tell me how it gives you clues

    1. http://i44.tinypic.com/2qmgapg.jpg
    2. http://i43.tinypic.com/yjbxv.jpg

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    I did read your first post, and want to comment more thoroughly later. Quick first impression was logical, extrovert, possibly Fe valuing but I'll come back to this and sort out my thoughts better, and may change my mind.

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    Just read the second part; the parts about getting the internal structure first, making sure everyone is included in a group, placing low value on moral judgements; all this steers me hard to Fe/Ti valuing. If redbaron's call for you as IP, my inclination to put the internal structure thing as not only Ti valuing but Ti Super-Id, my smaller inclination to put your distaste for rote memorization as pointing towards weak and devalued Te, and my gut leaning for you to be Alpha more than Beta and SEI more than IEI are spot on, then I'm gonna go SEI for you...




    ...and I just saw the pics! Si-SEI it is...

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    Dunno but on first impression you seem introspective and you have nice eyes.
    Life's a bitch and she's got me pussy whipped.

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    star stuff April's Avatar
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    I thought I retired from typing people, but I enjoyed reading your post. I'll guess ILE > LII.

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    You look like a person I'd get on with. Very likeable. Welcome to the forum.

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    thanks for all the input! and for the nice comments


    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I did read your first post, and want to comment more thoroughly later. Quick first impression was logical, extrovert, possibly Fe valuing but I'll come back to this and sort out my thoughts better, and may change my mind.
    thanks, I'll be curious to hear more from you!


    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    Just read the second part; the parts about getting the internal structure first, making sure everyone is included in a group, placing low value on moral judgements; all this steers me hard to Fe/Ti valuing. If redbaron's call for you as IP, my inclination to put the internal structure thing as not only Ti valuing but Ti Super-Id, my smaller inclination to put your distaste for rote memorization as pointing towards weak and devalued Te, and my gut leaning for you to be Alpha more than Beta and SEI more than IEI are spot on, then I'm gonna go SEI for you...

    ...and I just saw the pics! Si-SEI it is...
    can I be Si leading even if I often don't give a hoot about physical pleasure? can I be SEI if I don't feel adept at creating Fe things?

    also, is Ti-superid something that one wishes they'd be better at? Ti for me just feels comfy and rather automatic to use, but could perhaps be overconfidence eh? one thing is for sure, my "T" stuff (Ti? Te?) often interferes with my interaction with people.

    you said you didn't read first post, so I'll copy the relevant part for you, here's my attitude to some of the Si things:

    Generally I don't care about more than the basic needs in this area and I can take care of that myself (food, sleep, my looks - sensitive to my looks) while minimizing the time I spend on them, because expending energy on this stuff is very annoying due to my disinterest. An example, my flat is usually very messy because I rarely care enough about it, but at times I notice this, and it bothers me then but even then it takes a lot of self-convincing to start cleaning up, though once I do start, I will tend to do a lot of work, I just can't schedule it in nice small pieces. So, I appreciate it very much if I can rely on my partner to sort some of these annoying tasks for me. Though not the whole job, it would be weird if all my partner did was this. :S I believe in being equal.

    I'll add, I don't know for sure if Si is weak or not for me in general, but I don't focus on physical feelings much because my mind or body is usually going elsewhere instead.

    as for Fe, yes I'd definitely like to make sure everyone is included, though I feel like I'm not always adept at it but I try anyway...but only if I already feel an accepted part of a group.

    and here's stuff from first post that may be related to Fe/Fi:

    In an existing community with people already having fun between each other, it's difficult for me to join until someone draws me in. By default I'm serious/detached and unsure and often stay that way unless people truly draw me in, then I'll have a chance to somehow "click" with them and I might lighten up then. It can take more than one try though to make sure I'm really "inside". At other times it will be me trying to draw people into a conversation but the topics I bring up may or may not interest everyone and I'll get very aware/get uncomfortable about whether I'm boring someone after I've tried nudging them. I'm not good at keeping fun going beyond some crappy jokes, so I'll just enjoy other people's stuff, also by showing my own genuine enthusiasm about something and that either works for someone to get interested or not but people often note that I look really enthusiastic about the things that I'm involved with. Oh and I don't like myself or anyone making conscious moral judgements of people, I'd like to believe most people are more complex than that but that's perhaps also an excuse for me trying to ignore this area.


    Quote Originally Posted by April View Post
    I thought I retired from typing people, but I enjoyed reading your post. I'll guess ILE > LII.
    thanks much. is it possible to be Ne leading, yet not caring about playing with ideas for their own sake - that is, if they are not aimed at leading to a better understanding or to a new project for me to do?
    Last edited by ambivalent existence; 04-16-2012 at 09:11 PM.

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    star stuff April's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    thanks much. is it possible to be Ne leading, yet not caring about playing with ideas for their own sake - that is, if they are not aimed at leading to a better understanding or to a new project for me to do?
    Yes, I think it's possible, but my answer to practically any question resembling, "Can [type] be [characteristic]?" would be "Yes" since I approach Socionics as a model of best fit and correlational in nature.

    If I'm reading between the lines, I would not argue strongly against LII in favor of ILE. The main reason I listed ILE first was that I thought it sounded EP temperament-ish when you described your activity spurts and seemingly high energy levels. You actually sound much like my LII husband, though.

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    my first impression was Pi-IP

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    and here's stuff from first post that may be related to Fe/Fi:

    In an existing community with people already having fun between each other, it's difficult for me to join until someone draws me in. By default I'm serious/detached and unsure and often stay that way unless people truly draw me in, then I'll have a chance to somehow "click" with them and I might lighten up then. It can take more than one try though to make sure I'm really "inside". At other times it will be me trying to draw people into a conversation but the topics I bring up may or may not interest everyone and I'll get very aware/get uncomfortable about whether I'm boring someone after I've tried nudging them. I'm not good at keeping fun going beyond some crappy jokes, so I'll just enjoy other people's stuff, also by showing my own genuine enthusiasm about something and that either works for someone to get interested or not but people often note that I look really enthusiastic about the things that I'm involved with. Oh and I don't like myself or anyone making conscious moral judgements of people, I'd like to believe most people are more complex than that but that's perhaps also an excuse for me trying to ignore this area.
    I think this paragraph had to do more with your subtype being inert i.e. leading function (link) rather than Fe/Fi differences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by April View Post
    Yes, I think it's possible, but my answer to practically any question resembling, "Can [type] be [characteristic]?" would be "Yes" since I approach Socionics as a model of best fit and correlational in nature.

    If I'm reading between the lines, I would not argue strongly against LII in favor of ILE. The main reason I listed ILE first was that I thought it sounded EP temperament-ish when you described your activity spurts and seemingly high energy levels. You actually sound much like my LII husband, though.
    thanks! Your argument makes sense. I guess I may not be very typical of any type and that's why I have a hard time seeing what my lead function is.

    Actually, what I meant is I don't just do brainstorming in 10000 directions for the fun of it. A new idea is cool, but I'm not always thinking of a new one. I'm just open all the time and then here and there something pops up out of nowhere. It's like I'm always heading in one direction and ideas come here and there at points on the road towards whatever. The current direction itself is ready to change anytime though and does so impulsively, but in the end I will somehow get to the end of the road (my target that all the ideas are meant for) and take a whole new different road to a different target... It takes quite some time before I get off one interest (=road) and change to another but it eventually happens anyway even if I don't want it to, hah. To put it another way, I enjoy going on with my projects, if I once really start one, I will stay focused for a long time.

    Is your LII husband like that? What seems most similar between me and your husband? curious here.

    As for LII, when I checked temperaments, IJ was the one I related to the least and EP the most. I'm not really "balanced" like IJ would be, and I like my gait to be very fast - the exception from that is if I get deep in thinking, but more often fast than not. From EP what fits me the most is the abrupt and very impatient changing from "apparent inactivity" (this kind of burst is really enjoyable btw), energetic (fast) walk, optimism and the fidgeting of course.

    Btw someone said IP... supposedly IP movements are flexible BUT unhurried... mine are always hurried, I'm impatient, like this, I start doing something I want, then if I have to wait a bit for it before I can go on with it, I will stay energized and MUST start doing something else, while waiting. If I can't switch to something else to fill in the time, I will be very restless and fidgeting. All that shows in my movements I think. Only thing that fits in IP for me is I can go with the flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    my first impression was Pi-IP


    I think this paragraph had to do more with your subtype being inert i.e. leading function (link) rather than Fe/Fi differences.

    what seems like IP? beyond photo (I'm rather skeptical of VI, correlations are probably too weak for it)

    as for the Fe paragraph, do you mean I could have Fe creative but just don't tend to emphasize use of it and that's how it's become a sore spot for me? (let me know if I got that terribly wrong)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    what seems like IP? beyond photo (I'm rather skeptical of VI, correlations are probably too weak for it)
    you description overall just sounded like something Ixxp types would say of themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    as for the Fe paragraph, do you mean I could have Fe creative but just don't tend to emphasize use of it and that's how it's become a sore spot for me? (let me know if I got that terribly wrong)
    I meant this part "..it's difficult for me to join until someone draws me in" which hinted at your type's subtype being inert one i.e. leading function subtype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    you description overall just sounded like something Ixxp types would say of themselves


    I meant this part "..it's difficult for me to join until someone draws me in" which hinted at your type's subtype being inert one i.e. leading function subtype.

    Could you give me any more details beyond "just sounded like it"?

    Yeah, I know you referred to that part. However, wouldn't it be the case then that the difficulty is caused by preferring to stay passive? I do NOT prefer to stay passive, my default stance is just that I feel outside the group because nobody's trying to involve me, and I don't know what to do, don't want to fuck up things, so I just wait but at the same time will feel alone...or I'll just drop the whole thing and go do something else. Pretty sore spot for me. This is why I replied in the questionnaire that I will go out with people only if I think it would be great. I rethought that since then, in reality, I sometimes go even when I don't think it will be great, I just try anyway. Again, this is a rather difficult and complicated topic for me.

    Overall, I'm pretty sure that I don't "use" Fe in a skilled way at all, I will rather happily receive it from others though and then I can get really active with it. Sometimes I even think Fe could be my suggestive, but I dunno, because I don't think Ti is really leading for me... eh same old issue, no function feels like it's "leading".

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    Quote Originally Posted by April View Post
    Yes, I think it's possible, but my answer to practically any question resembling, "Can [type] be [characteristic]?" would be "Yes" since I approach Socionics as a model of best fit and correlational in nature.

    If I'm reading between the lines, I would not argue strongly against LII in favor of ILE. The main reason I listed ILE first was that I thought it sounded EP temperament-ish when you described your activity spurts and seemingly high energy levels. You actually sound much like my LII husband, though.
    Ah and another question comes to mind; how does your husband's Se PoLR look like? As far as I understand, LII's hate to ask other people for anything, well that's so very much not me. I'm pretty sure Se is *not* my PoLR, as I'm pretty confident in knowing what I want and how much I want it and I'm not afraid to ask people when needed. They will not always like it though, as I can appear too impatient/forceful, but that's another issue altogether; I learned to be less forceful over time anyway or at least I think so, because I do try to watch myself over this issue, but I still get complaints from people that I'm really impatient to get everything asap. I also learned not to keep nagging people if they said "no" but I think I need to work on that still. Even though my experience shows that many people will not give in after saying "no", I keep forgetting that it's probably not worth trying further and I don't even "notice" myself doing this. What really helps in stopping nagging is if they actually give me a reasoning for "no". So I suppose, that would be mostly role Se, as it's not as smooth as leading Se?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    Could you give me any more details beyond "just sounded like it"?
    These parts from your description sounded like the flexible-adaptive IP temperament: link.
    This is why several people so far have suggested a Pi-leading type.
    I too easily sink into physical passivity but not into mental passivity. Yet I get stressed/restless when I'm physically passive for too long and then I might get energized/active but I feel this needs to be more often. Or I just get suddenly energized and set about something.

    I don't usually know when I'm going to get down to work, I can't keep a strictly time based schedule, only a more general schedule.

    Buuut, if not busy with achieving something, I will just wander wherever my impulses take and the larger part of a day goes like this. A smaller part of the day is me being very focused on working on the longer term goals but it must be a daily activity, not much of "rest days".

    Of course if the plan needs changes as I go ahead, I will readily change it no problem...the idea is just keep going, organization is more a side effect.
    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    Yeah, I know you referred to that part. However, wouldn't it be the case then that the difficulty is caused by preferring to stay passive?
    And what causes you to prefer to stay passive?

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    I do NOT prefer to stay passive,
    That was my general impression, and this also goes along with descriptions of IP temperament which is generally described as passive with sporadic bursts of activity. IPs will look for others to activate them and this is especially true of Pi-IPs.

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    my default stance is just that I feel outside the group because nobody's trying to involve me, and I don't know what to do, don't want to fuck up things, so I just wait but at the same time will feel alone...or I'll just drop the whole thing and go do something else. Pretty sore spot for me. This is why I replied in the questionnaire that I will go out with people only if I think it would be great. I rethought that since then, in reality, I sometimes go even when I don't think it will be great, I just try anyway. Again, this is a rather difficult and complicated topic for me.
    Do you know your instinct stacking? What you're describing, the difficulties you're having with picking up on group dynamics, is something attributed to social last instinct: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tual-Stackings

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    Overall, I'm pretty sure that I don't "use" Fe in a skilled way at all, I will rather happily receive it from others though and then I can get really active with it. Sometimes I even think Fe could be my suggestive, but I dunno, because I don't think Ti is really leading for me... eh same old issue, no function feels like it's "leading".
    I don't know what exactly you're referring to when you say that you don't "use Fe in a skilled way", but functions are best viewed as perspectives rather than skillsets or tools that can be used or applied.

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    I'm not sure this is at all helpful, since two people of the same type can still be quite different. But since you ask...

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    thanks! Your argument makes sense. I guess I may not be very typical of any type and that's why I have a hard time seeing what my lead function is.

    Actually, what I meant is I don't just do brainstorming in 10000 directions for the fun of it. A new idea is cool, but I'm not always thinking of a new one. I'm just open all the time and then here and there something pops up out of nowhere. It's like I'm always heading in one direction and ideas come here and there at points on the road towards whatever. The current direction itself is ready to change anytime though and does so impulsively, but in the end I will somehow get to the end of the road (my target that all the ideas are meant for) and take a whole new different road to a different target... It takes quite some time before I get off one interest (=road) and change to another but it eventually happens anyway even if I don't want it to, hah. To put it another way, I enjoy going on with my projects, if I once really start one, I will stay focused for a long time.

    Is your LII husband like that? What seems most similar between me and your husband? curious here.
    He is definitely directed in his thinking like you describe, but he doesn't necessarily need a practical result. He gets satisfaction from any acquired understanding and from having fun with his ideas. He regularly has projects going on which he becomes intensely focused, but his plans are often too big to materialize and it can be hard for him to reevaluate because he becomes very attached to his ideas.

    Some of the strongest similarities I noticed in your initial post were listed under "in a relationship." Especially the bit about "I need emotional expression to know where we are emotionally..." which I think is weak but valued Fe. He also hates "people saying 'no' without reasoning" because if you can't argue something logically and succinctly, then he sees little to no value in your views. I understand this stance when it comes to beliefs, but it extends further than that. Like if you say, "I'm having trouble articulating why, but I feel [emotion]," you haven't demonstrated that you're feeling a "valid" emotion. Everything needs to be rather explicit. I'm not sure if this is at all what you meant, but it's something I've associated with his Ti leading.

    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    Ah and another question comes to mind; how does your husband's Se PoLR look like? As far as I understand, LII's hate to ask other people for anything, well that's so very much not me. I'm pretty sure Se is *not* my PoLR, as I'm pretty confident in knowing what I want and how much I want it and I'm not afraid to ask people when needed. They will not always like it though, as I can appear too impatient/forceful, but that's another issue altogether; I learned to be less forceful over time anyway or at least I think so, because I do try to watch myself over this issue, but I still get complaints from people that I'm really impatient to get everything asap. I also learned not to keep nagging people if they said "no" but I think I need to work on that still. Even though my experience shows that many people will not give in after saying "no", I keep forgetting that it's probably not worth trying further and I don't even "notice" myself doing this. What really helps in stopping nagging is if they actually give me a reasoning for "no". So I suppose, that would be mostly role Se, as it's not as smooth as leading Se?
    He doesn't like to ask people for things, but it doesn't seem to present many problems. He tells people what to do at work well, perhaps because roles are clearly defined.

    One of the biggest things I've associated with his Se PoLR is his (infrequent!) tendency to go from 1 to 10 on the angry-and-had-fucking-enough scale. Or from 1 to 10 on the stop-talking-and-fucking-listen-to-me scale. And so on. He'll seem completely cool and blow up rather abruptly. There's definitely a cooler, more suave way to handle things. From what I've seen, his ESI mother brings this out the most in him.

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    My very first thought before I saw pics, was INTP. I know a lot of people don't agree with Maritsa's typings but I would still like her opinion on the pictures. Going by VI alone, you remind me of Blaze! (who is ENTp)
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    These parts from your description sounded like the flexible-adaptive IP temperament: link.
    This is why several people so far have suggested a Pi-leading type.
    thanks for detailing.

    I checked the link, and thought more about the temperaments, I feel like I could sometimes *appear* like IP, but I enjoy EP stuff as well.

    My movements are not like IP for sure (I'll quote myself): they are always hurried, I'm impatient, like this, I start doing something I want, then if I have to wait a bit for it before I can go on with it, I will stay energized and MUST start doing something else, while waiting. If I can't switch to something else to fill in the time, I will be very restless and fidgeting. All that shows in my movements I think. Only thing that fits in IP for me is I can go with the flow. ...well at least at times when I'm just waiting for possibilities to grab.

    It also says that IP takes things as they come, no, I'm not THAT passive. If nothing happens, i'll get VERY bored, I need things changed to avoid boredom. If I can't do that in a situation, then to pass the time, I'll resort to playing with whatever theory interests me at a moment. Now that's when I appear and feel truly passive, when I'm just playing around with theories in my head... though my mind is very active at the same time.


    And what causes you to prefer to stay passive?
    If I find too much cool stuff to do on the computer.
    I'm not actually passive in terms of that, I'm always busy with shit, but it decreases the chances of me getting up and go out even though that's great too. So that's why it makes me feel like I'm being too passive.


    That was my general impression, and this also goes along with descriptions of IP temperament which is generally described as passive with sporadic bursts of activity. IPs will look for others to activate them and this is especially true of Pi-IPs.
    As for IPs looking for others to activate them.. well in my case, it depends what activity the other person has in mind, because I may or may not like the idea. I'm not very choosy, but I know what I like and what I don't like. But yeah if it's all cool I will happily go along and be active myself.


    Do you know your instinct stacking? What you're describing, the difficulties you're having with picking up on group dynamics, is something attributed to social last instinct: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tual-Stackings
    My instinct stacking is most likely sx/so/sp in this order.. eh, I can see some of the group dynamics, I just sorely feel like an outsider until someone reassures me that I'm not an outsider. This is also what I mean by not being great with Fe stuff, as I need someone else to activate me in such a situation.


    I don't know what exactly you're referring to when you say that you don't "use Fe in a skilled way", but functions are best viewed as perspectives rather than skillsets or tools that can be used or applied.
    I get what you mean, yeah, it's just bad word usage from my part. what I mean is I tend to focus on Ti(?or something else) more than Fe by default, so Fe is a kind of weaker perspective and thus I feel less "skilled" about it. Actually, when I say weaker perspective, I'm ambivalent on that, because even though by default more of my perspective seems to be about Ti (etc. etc.), when I focus on Fe it feels like a stronger effect.
    Last edited by ambivalent existence; 04-17-2012 at 09:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by April View Post
    I'm not sure this is at all helpful, since two people of the same type can still be quite different. But since you ask...
    thanks, yeah, I was just curious. I guess the biggest difference is that I try to evaluate if an idea can be materialized into practice or not - or not yet. and if I find the answer is no, then too bad for the idea, I lose interest.

    As for the saying "no" part, I can understand that there might be value in many views, I don't think people's views have to be logical though definitely preferred. What I have a harder time accepting is when someone doesn't want to do some thing for me, that's where reasoning will help a lot.

    Btw, I don't think emotions need to be validated by logic like that... it's good to find the origin of an emotion, but it doesn't validate or invalidate it, just makes it clearer and easier to deal with it.

    Eh, overall, those are just some of the things why I don't think I'm Ti dominant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    My very first thought before I saw pics, was INTP. I know a lot of people don't agree with Maritsa's typings but I would still like her opinion on the pictures. Going by VI alone, you remind me of Blaze! (who is ENTp)
    wow, INTP as in "ILI"? if so, what made you guess this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    First impression is that you're an obvious NT type—the narrational perspective in your writing is a very detached one, as opposed to being direct and experiential (which by contrast is most overt in SF types). You also make frequent use of abstract descriptors in conveying yourself; for instance, the average ISFp isn't likely to verbalize phraseology such as "I don't care to consciously evaluate relationship properties" when speaking of how they might size-up interpersonal relationships.

    You describe yourself as having high activity levels and noted impulsivity, qualities which sound demonstrably suggestive of extroversion.

    Winnowing the possibilities down to ENTx, I'd say ENTp > ENTj, though I can't readily articulate in full yet why I opt for the former. You did mention being receptive towards "Fe" and needing frequent emotional expression as positive reinforcement on where a relationship stands—stereotypically speaking, this could suggest Fe-seeking. But realistically, I'd have to know more about what you mean by this before I'd allow my brain to pounce on it as a conclusive factor, given that most humans regardless of type would say they like emotional expression from others and infer reassurances in it, etc.

    FWIW, I'd conjecture as well that you're probably an E7 of some sort, though that doesn't help differentiate between ENTj/ENTp.
    yeah, I love an abstracted level of looking at things.

    As for the emotional stuff, you are right, I view it as one of the basic human needs. I just suck at handling it on my own.

    So what I mean by it exactly, clearly express emotions via words, directly related actions, facial expressions, and often enough, otherwise I just don't "know" what they're feeling about me even if logically I could argue for it because of X or Y action that isn't direct expression of emotions but is supposed to be related subtly or something. Sometimes I can notice the subtle things but it doesn't tend to get conscious enough, so I stay unsure. Or even if it gets conscious enough, it's still somehow not enough for me. Best way I would put it is it isn't direct enough for me.

    If you need more clarification, could you ask more specific questions?

    Hm, ENTj/LIE... what seems like a Te perspective in my posts? Yes I realize that Ne is not such an "obvious" leading function for me, but I don't exclude this possibility. Te I also was undecided about, but then I realized that when I like to be efficient is usually because I'm just impatient to get where I want to. I also like to do things very fast, the faster I can complete the task the cooler. But I don't know if that on its own can be Te valuing. I just find it a funny challenge that I enjoy achieving. Another thing, when I talk about facts, I tend to like to have some background in my mind about how it all fits together. A fact may or may not be meaningless on its own, it depends on my current stance. If I can use it for a situation then I'll just use it without thinking, but when I get into analysing then I will see one fact as meaningless without knowing how it connects to other things in a greater picture. Now, I assumed that would be Ti, but I've seen some argument somewhere that it could be Ni.

    Oh, and on a tangent from that, what would look like Se HA in my posts?

    As for enneagram, yeah, I've been typed as E7 and E8 before. I think closer to E7. I feel like I have some E5 qualities too, but I believe E7 "core" because I need stimulation like E7's do, just not necessarily as physically/sensorily as in the typical E7 descriptions, though that can be cool too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    hahaha.

    well, I did condensate by replying to a questionnaire in my post above you. did you see that yet?
    (quadruple winky face)

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    If you're E7 then you're probably ENTp.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by PokemonWidowJadae View Post
    (quadruple winky face)
    ah.. mmm, quadruple is a lot! am I supposed to read your typing out of that face? =P

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    If you're E7 then you're probably ENTp.
    maybe. or maybe not. everything's a possibility to be considered!

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    I don't know about your type, but your username is really cool!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    I don't know about your type, but your username is really cool!
    thank you! your avatar is also remarkable =P

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    maybe. or maybe not. everything's a possibility to be considered!
    haha I think you just proved my point!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    thanks, I'll be curious to hear more from you!
    Okay first, one of the reasons I suggested logical extrovert is because you talked about your energy and ease at initiating conversation, making acquaintances, etc, but that you didn't know how to close the distance and create the kind of relationships you'd like to have. Your thought process comes across as well-organized and emotional language is completely absent. The paragraph that began "in an existing community" I thought pointed towards Fe valuing/seeking. I very much identify with what you said there, which is usually a crappy way of typing, lol, so I'm not putting much weight on it.

    You say your temperament fits EP best, but from what you've described, it could also fit EJ. You speak more about mental energy, and describe your constant focus on working through the ideas you have in your mind, creating something from them, and your natural ability to spend a great deal of time in only mental activity, losing yourself in them, focusing on abstract theory, albeit not neglecting the practical all says NT to me. N for the self-perpetuating mental churning in the manner you described. As a contrast, I'll use myself for an example, which while not ideal for comparison, should illustrate well enough. I also can get deeply involved in something I'm working on, figuring things out, etc. but the further abstracted it gets the heavier/slower my mind feels, like I'm disconnected and I don't trust it. I like to condense things down into a simpler form, sweep away the excess theory and work with things on a more basic level. When you talk about being annoyed by the overly rational approach, you're probably describing something like the approach I prefer to take. Doesn't mean I can't or won't theorize, because I certainly will, and also very much enjoy exploring new ideas, but when it comes down to the viewpoint that I'll hold onto, it's simplified and far more concrete and rational.

    Overall, I think you're ENTx, and so far don't see a huge reason to choose one over the other. E7s are usually EPs, but not always.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    haha I think you just proved my point!
    meh. you think I did that accidentally? =P

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Okay first, one of the reasons I suggested logical extrovert is because you talked about your energy and ease at initiating conversation, making acquaintances, etc, but that you didn't know how to close the distance and create the kind of relationships you'd like to have. Your thought process comes across as well-organized and emotional language is completely absent. The paragraph that began "in an existing community" I thought pointed towards Fe valuing/seeking. I very much identify with what you said there, which is usually a crappy way of typing, lol, so I'm not putting much weight on it.

    You say your temperament fits EP best, but from what you've described, it could also fit EJ. You speak more about mental energy, and describe your constant focus on working through the ideas you have in your mind, creating something from them, and your natural ability to spend a great deal of time in only mental activity, losing yourself in them, focusing on abstract theory, albeit not neglecting the practical all says NT to me. N for the self-perpetuating mental churning in the manner you described. As a contrast, I'll use myself for an example, which while not ideal for comparison, should illustrate well enough. I also can get deeply involved in something I'm working on, figuring things out, etc. but the further abstracted it gets the heavier/slower my mind feels, like I'm disconnected and I don't trust it. I like to condense things down into a simpler form, sweep away the excess theory and work with things on a more basic level. When you talk about being annoyed by the overly rational approach, you're probably describing something like the approach I prefer to take. Doesn't mean I can't or won't theorize, because I certainly will, and also very much enjoy exploring new ideas, but when it comes down to the viewpoint that I'll hold onto, it's simplified and far more concrete and rational.

    Overall, I think you're ENTx, and so far don't see a huge reason to choose one over the other. E7s are usually EPs, but not always.

    thanks for your well-thought out analysis

    I think you're right about the Fe-valuing. that together with ENTx is ILE, right?... yes I know a few things about me look like an enthusiastic LIE, but I value Fe very clearly.

    well unless I'm wrong and I actually value Se as HA function. what do you think points to possible Se (Se-HA very specifically) valuing based on my posts?

    btw, on another tangent... I really find this interesting about your description how you get "tired" when getting more abstract. do you have an example of a typical concrete viewpoint you tend to get down to? is that related to Ne-PoLR that LSI's tend to have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    thanks for your well-thought out analysis

    I think you're right about the Fe-valuing. that together with ENTx is ILE, right?... yes I know a few things about me look like an enthusiastic LIE, but I value Fe very clearly.

    well unless I'm wrong and I actually value Se as HA function. what do you think points to possible Se (Se-HA very specifically) valuing based on my posts?

    btw, on another tangent... I really find this interesting about your description how you get "tired" when getting more abstract. do you have an example of a typical concrete viewpoint you tend to get down to? is that related to Ne-PoLR that LSI's tend to have?
    I didn't see anything specifically pointing to Se-valuing, but did see some things that were possibly Fe-valuing, and if you think you're clearly Fe-valuing, then ILE it is .

    An example of ending the theory and just adopting something realistic and concrete would be discussing something like time travel. People can get into endless discussions about paradoxes and loops, relativity etc, but in the end, I always come back to neither the past nor the future exist as real places, so there's nothing to travel to. It kills the fun lol, and I don't know if that's Ne-polr or not. Something that I think is related to Ne-polr is when people start suggesting scenarios or options or hypotheticals, and it just annoys me. I don't want to think about imaginary scenarios, especially if they have little chance of taking place.

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    Going by that wall of text, whoever is going to type you me quadra is completely bonkers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I didn't see anything specifically pointing to Se-valuing, but did see some things that were possibly Fe-valuing, and if you think you're clearly Fe-valuing, then ILE it is .

    An example of ending the theory and just adopting something realistic and concrete would be discussing something like time travel. People can get into endless discussions about paradoxes and loops, relativity etc, but in the end, I always come back to neither the past nor the future exist as real places, so there's nothing to travel to. It kills the fun lol, and I don't know if that's Ne-polr or not. Something that I think is related to Ne-polr is when people start suggesting scenarios or options or hypotheticals, and it just annoys me. I don't want to think about imaginary scenarios, especially if they have little chance of taking place.
    yeah, ok, I'll reveal myself, as everyone made their guesses by now... yeah, I'm ILE. (not a question about me being ILE whatsoever, as far as types actually "exist", personally I think it is not as clear-cut, but it's still interesting.)

    let me also add that I'm also annoyed by hypotheticals if they don't have a chance to be implemented in the near enough future, but I'm not Ne-PoLR, I just like to focus on how big a possibility the idea is in terms of actually implementing it in the real world. it has nothing to do with gaining material assets, as I'm not interested in those much (a little bit, sometimes, but usually I don't care).

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