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Thread: INTjs and creativity

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    Default INTjs and creativity

    Are INTJs more creative than average?
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    To be stereotypicaly speaking, I think they ought to be. It would be an essential part of their survival technique, as opposed to just 'logic'.

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    Exactlymy point, it seems that logic and creativity don't necessarily go hand in hand, at least for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by soggy-flakes
    I've never felt particularly creative. I trust logic more than intuition and maybe that's why. I've even heard that types tend to see themselves as more creative than types. I think because types are more likely to get ideas that come out of nowhere and is more likely to rely on some sort of external stimulus to fuel ideas. I don't know about the other INTjs here but I'd have a hard time coming with something totally new. I'd be much more inclined to improve something already existing or take something already there and change some of the variables to see what the new result will be.
    Can you give some real examples when you were creative or others said you were creative?
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    not necessarily... how can i say it?

    "special knowledge can be a terrible disadvantage if it leads you too far along a path that you cannot explain anymore."

    this can cripple any generative capacity

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    What do you mean by generative? Imaginative?
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    in this case yes. it makes one creative in a childish/futile way that does not actually approach... art?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    in this case yes. it makes one creative in a childish/futile way that does not actually approach... art?
    Pedro, when I read your posts, I keep on thinking from where do you get all of this ? It shines through from your words.
    Semiotical process

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    I consider myself creative, I've painted and was sent to art schools my whole life. I currently work as a graphic designer, but I hate it and am thinking about going back to school.
    I approach each canvas as a problem that needs to be solved, you have to decide when and where to use the right tools and you have to make sure color is in the right places based on a formula of balance. I like to think I use a combination of creativity and logic.
    All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsb'07
    Pedro, when I read your posts, I keep on thinking from where do you get all of this ? It shines through from your words.
    has favorable characteristics i demand perfection of myself or rather wholeness or completeness or competency or what you will thus i learn . all creatures are influenced by their environment and the ones who dominate are those who adopt the strengths of their superiors and surgically remove their own deficiencies but more important than this is the ability to maneuver into any kind of person.

    you once said something to the effect of "the united states is a more emotionally complex place", i agree. i am a new form of the chameleon as a necessity. eventually someone will come along and find the chinks in my armor and take advantage of them at which point i will adapt some more until their methods are useless and they will adapt similarly to myself. this process will occur ad infinitum and eventually i will... how to say it in socionics terminology? have significant functional development so that nothing will faze me (in a positive manner )

    this process occurs all around us. as people communicate more and more ideas spread like an infection and persons who would (under normal circumstances) have taken decades to aquire a certain bit of knowledge now receive it several degrees of magnitude in time sooner and develop faster. eventually this will lead to everyone being everyone (sort of) and personalities will die. when you were a child you thought a certain way and you "outgrew" it. soon everyone will outgrow themselves and "personality" will become a defunct concept because you will be able to fulfill so many conflicting, contradictory, and mutually exclusive desires (expressions imo is a much better word as "wants" may not be either) simultaneously (because of enhanced capacity) that the you that is now will be only one voice in a grand cacophanous harmony. the abolition of man will occur. men must die for if we continue to have competing interests we will kill ourselves off. the only way to survive in the long term (billions of years) is for us to "work together" so closely that we fail to see divisions (serious ones at least) between one another's mental states so that we can have access to every adaptation possible

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    That was some rant Pedro
    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    soon everyone will outgrow themselves and "personality" will become a defunct concept because you will be able to fulfill so many conflicting, contradictory, and mutually exclusive desires (expressions imo is a much better word as "wants" may not be either) simultaneously (because of enhanced capacity) that the you that is now will be only one voice in a grand cacophanous harmony. the abolition of man will occur.
    If only I could get this work for me but it dosen't. I spent many years trying to be what I'm not in an extension of who I am, but as I got older the further I would revert back. And somethings, being openly social in large parties for instance, were beyond my ability no matter how many legal and illeagal drugs I consumed. This is one of the main reasons I quite therapy, or maybe why I entered therapy in the first place :wink:
    All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    I think INTjs should be, they don't have to be but it seems like it would make sense. Maybe soggy-flakes is right, because as far as I've seen in my life, INTjs trust logic. However, a lot of people compliment me on my imagination and creativity. I'm the idea person in groups, or at least I am until someone in charge acts stupid and then I become the group leader, coordinator, organizer and creator. I try to find jobs for other people to have that they wont mess up.
    Roboticist: Someone who conceptualizes, designs, builds, programs and experiments with robots.

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    I seem to switch back and forth between using logic and intuition for things. The choice between the two seems to be based on a whim.
    All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsb'07
    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    in this case yes. it makes one creative in a childish/futile way that does not actually approach... art?
    Pedro, when I read your posts, I keep on thinking from where do you get all of this ? It shines through from your words.
    huh? I hope you didn't mean in the post you quoted.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


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    I agree with both mastermind's and oyburger's last posts
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I don't know about the other INTjs here but I'd have a hard time coming with something totally new. I'd be much more inclined to improve something already existing or take something already there and change some of the variables to see what the new result will be.
    This is generally how I work with a project or assignment. I take a look at what has been done before and how other people have approached the problem. I then take different aspects of it and rearrange it in a fashion that logically makes sense for the required task. This is where the INTj and ENTp are considered creative. In our attempts to have the world make sense, we rearrange preexisting ideas and concepts and apply them in new ways which are logical to us and new to others.
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    I think that is what I call version B of The Logical Fodunk.

    That's how I roll.
    My first year in college, I foudn myself spending way too much time trying to create something completely new, which I'm not so good at. This year, I'll try to be more efficient by realizing and accepting that strategy. I wasted way too much time and energy that wasn't really leading, effieciently, towards the outcome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    I don't know about the other INTjs here but I'd have a hard time coming with something totally new. I'd be much more inclined to improve something already existing or take something already there and change some of the variables to see what the new result will be.
    This is generally how I work with a project or assignment. I take a look at what has been done before and how other people have approached the problem. I then take different aspects of it and rearrange it in a fashion that logically makes sense for the required task. This is where the INTj and ENTp are considered creative. In our attempts to have the world make sense, we rearrange preexisting ideas and concepts and apply them in new ways which are logical to us and new to others.
    Another person before said that INTJs are idea people. That is they creates new ideas and concepts. Would you agree with that?
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    INTjs are indeed "idea people," (as are all intuitives) but I think these ideas must be generated in response to some external need or problem that they see as being apparent in their environment. The ideas generated seem to be a result of their critical analysis of a problem. And like I said, an INTjs "new idea" may simply be the result of trying to improve a concept or solve a problem. In addition, INTjs as idea people may differ in their desire to break down concepts and ideas to core components and categorize them. By categorizing components of ideas, INTjs are able to see associations, trends, and commonalities with ideas and play around to make new ideas.
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    This is very interesting logos.

    When you say that an INTJ sees what has been done before and improves on them, or when the INTJ sees the core components of an idea, would you say that what is seen is real?

    What I am trying to get at, is the INTJ view of the relationship between their views and reality: is it a one to one correspondence? In contrast, an INTP for instance essentially invents his reality.
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    In my experience, we can take something that's there and real and take it to its furthest limits, at least abstractly. When we get done with it, it may not resemble the original thing, but for us there is a connection.
    All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyburger
    In my experience, we can take something that's there and real and take it to its furthest limits, at least abstractly. When we get done with it, it may not resemble the original thing, but for us there is a connection.
    This is extremely interesting, what do you mean by furthest limit? Do you have any examples?
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    No example comes to mind, but if I let my mind wander on a certain subject associations build upon associations until you can take it to its furthest conclusion.
    All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    This is very interesting logos.

    When you say that an INTJ sees what has been done before and improves on them, or when the INTJ sees the core components of an idea, would you say that what is seen is real?

    What I am trying to get at, is the INTJ view of the relationship between their views and reality: is it a one to one correspondence? In contrast, an INTP for instance essentially invents his reality.

    First, I agree with oyburger and logos on essentially everything thus far.


    Hmm, I don't know how an INTP opperates, really. I think I am one, sometimes, but I'm getting more and more J as time goes by. But I want to keep some play in the j/p dichotomey, so I can understand things.

    Anyway, to fruther my original intent --- "essentially invents his reality". Hmm, I don't know. What I have done is create an image or vision, roughly in my head, and I try to orientate things towards that vision. It is, I imagine, like magnitizing a peice of metal, so that everything lines up in the same direction. Or also, sort of like tetris, and I am tryin to orient all the peices, as they come by, into a position that I want them to be in.

    I really like Rick's site, there is an article I linked before, where it talks about psychological lopsidedness. And yeah, the more I go, the more I do see myself compelled to arrange things via my leading function --- :ti:. This is, of course, supported by , and as such, I am an idea/possibility/improvement person.


    That is why I really like my signature -- -it is so fitting. I realize I have always been a revolutionary -- this has always been me. So now I revel in it, because I have found something I've been looking for for a long time -- a bit of 'my destiney', so to say. But that is laced with some INTj mysticism and fantasy, for sure.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyburger
    No example comes to mind, but if I let my mind wander on a certain subject associations build upon associations until you can take it to its furthest conclusion.
    Furthest conclusion as in its' truth value? I can see how designing something can work that way, is it the same with ideas? What is the goal of the associations?
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    No goal, just thought games, if you will.
    All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyburger
    No goal, just thought games, if you will.
    and what si the conclusion that you arrive at? And how do you know that it is indeed the furthest possible conclusion, how do you know that its' not just a temporary arrival?
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    You don't, I just see how far I can take it at that time.
    All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyburger
    You don't, I just see how far I can take it at that time.
    What is the difference bwetween the innitial state and latter one? Are there simply more and better conections or is there something more?

    And what is the subject matter usually? Just one's daily affairs or more abstract issues?
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    It just depends. They're thought games that keep me occupied while I drive or keep me up at night. Sometimes something worthy comes out of them like an idea for a painting or a new understanding of something.

    The initial state is just a starting point.
    All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    Is a thought game a kind of hypothetical take on the issue? Like "lets imagine we have 3 main colorrs, what combinations can we make. now lets add one more..." etc.

    An example would be great, when you get a chance just write down a short description of a thought game that went in your head.
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    Sure, I can do that
    All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    Is a thought game a kind of hypothetical take on the issue? Like "lets imagine we have 3 main colorrs, what combinations can we make. now lets add one more..." etc.
    Yes. Most definately. It is about creating a hypothetical situation or concept and playing with the full implications or possibilities which that concept would entail. Color games are a bit simple, so instead of using colors as an example, let's use one of my favorites: political systems. Just about every rule, law, and amendment that is a part of a government's structure has implications as to the perceived purpose of government as well as how the law may be played out, both the benefits and the abuses. The hypothetical game would be to try to identify a problem or goal of government, and then to create a new policy or a change in the structure of government and play out the theory in practice, both the benefits and possible abuses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Is a thought game a kind of hypothetical take on the issue? Like "lets imagine we have 3 main colorrs, what combinations can we make. now lets add one more..." etc.
    Yes. Most definately. It is about creating a hypothetical situation or concept and playing with the full implications or possibilities which that concept would entail. Color games are a bit simple, so instead of using colors as an example, let's use one of my favorites: political systems. Just about every rule, law, and amendment that is a part of a government's structure has implications as to the perceived purpose of government as well as how the law may be played out, both the benefits and the abuses. The hypothetical game would be to try to identify a problem or goal of government, and then to create a new policy or a change in the structure of government and play out the theory in practice, both the benefits and possible abuses.
    I used to do that and I am INTP though.

    Are you sure of your type logos?
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    Quite sure, I do not identify especially well with as a primary function and is something that I know that I consciously do all the time. But this sort of thinking is part of the INTj's strategy and contingency thinking, mixing and matching components and concepts in the attempt to try and create a new one.
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    (Logos comes across as INTj to me.)
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I am too sleepy to write because it's 11:30 p.m around here. I think that INTj can become creative and also from IN(T)j to I(N)Tj by finding some humanitarian activity: poetry, writing fiction. They can also strengthen their secondary by learning to brainstrom. When they learn to use their Role function, they can become emotional, laughy and theatrical. So to become into Secondary function subtype, they should learn to be impulsive, originally thinking and entertaining.

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    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I know two sisters, one xNFp and the other INTj, and they are both excellent artist
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
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