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Thread: Male ESFjs/ESE men

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    Default Male ESFjs/ESE men

    This subject has been mentioned before, but not in detail.

    If you look at people being typed as ESFj, both online and IRL, most of them are women - the vast majority. This may be partly due to a real imbalance - in fact, I think the percentage of ESFjs among women is higher than among men - but also because ESFj women are much more easily recognizable.

    ESFj women use their dominant to adopt a socially-accepted, even stereotypical, "feminine" role of using very clearly expressed emotions to relate to others and create moods - and also using stereotypically feminine ways to achieve that, as in aesthetic sense for dress, taste for cooking and choosing food, etc.

    The basic point is that the use of and in ESFj women is very obvious and clear.

    For the same reason, ESFj men will feel inclined to use their to adopt a more "masculine" role of being more restrained in their emotional expressions and aesthetic taste - which makes them more difficult to spot (at least for me).

    There is an ESFj female and an ESFj male at work. I had little problem identifying the woman, but the man took much longer. From his daily subdued behavior on the side, I very briefly considered ESTj. But the ESFj in him becomes clear when he's relaxing with friends over a meal - then the ESFj traits of telling events sequentially while displaying lots of emerge. He also shows the same evidence of PoLR that I have observed in ESFj females. But he is ESFj, that is confirmed by his spending most of his time with a very obvious ISFp guy.

    He is not typically "extroverted" in the socially outgoing, pop-MBTI sense, not like most ESFj women - - in fact, according to that kind of criteria he might well be typed as an MBTI ISFJ.

    Anyone has other observations on ESFj males?
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    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    i just realized recently that a friend of a friend is ESFj, over thai food.

    He and another friend and myself were finishing eating, and my friend was silent for a beat (she is INTp, i think..... or else an INTj with the opposite subtype as me) and he said, "do you want a takeout menu?" and she said, "sometimes i feel like you are reading my mind, its kind of scary". Then a bit later I moved like, an inch left, thinking i would like a menu too, and he said, "[my name] do you want a menu too?" And i said, "you really know people". He said "I have known you two for a long time". But i don't think thats the answer. Anyway, after that, i remembered all the times that he is so hospitable and how he gets annoyed at rudeness in social settings and how he always goes out and seems to be in the know.. and how he and my friend who i think is INTp have clashes and disagreements on rudeness all the time...

    so yeah. I think i know one male ESFj who is into being masculine but is Fe Si with his friends, stereotypically, over a meal.

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    I think the percentage of ESFjs among women is higher than among men - but also because ESFj women are much more easily recognizable.
    Both statements are definitely true.

    There is an ESFj female and an ESFj male at work. I had little problem identifying the woman, but the man took much longer. From his daily subdued behavior on the side, I very briefly considered ESTj.
    I have had a very similar experience at a place where I no longer work. It was completely obvious that the woman was (and still is) an ESFj, but the male could perhaps be an ESTj. I think he had got ESXj on an MBTI test (the real one, not those on the Internet). After having studied him for a couple of weeks I was almost convinced that he most likely also was an ESFj rather than an ESTj. But I am still not 100 % sure because of the reasons you mention. One argument for ESFj (though perhaps rather weak) was that he showed V.I similarities with my own mother, who is clearly an ESFj.

    But the ESFj in him becomes clear when he's relaxing with friends over a meal - then the ESFj traits of telling events sequentially while displaying lots of emerge.
    If that is a clear difference between male ESTjs and male ESFjs, I think the case for ESFj is even stronger in my case. The male ESXj definitely showed that kind of behaviour more than once, if I understand what you are referring to, Expat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    If that is a clear difference between male ESTjs and male ESFjs, I think the case for ESFj is even stronger in my case. The male ESXj definitely showed that kind of behaviour more than once, if I understand what you are referring to, Expat.
    What I have observed is that ESTjs remain essentially the same - that is, in terms of behavior - whether they are having chats at work or relaxing with friends during a meal. They are not likely to change from being friendly - but quiet and restrained - at work to being very talkative and telling stories spontaneously when more relaxed, which ESFjs tend to do. I'm talking about just feeling more relaxed, not intoxicated.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    My boss is an ESFj... he is not much like the ESTjs I know! If anything, he seems more like an ESFp than an ESTj. His interests are traditionally masculine, such as projects around the house or working on his truck, and he spent time in the military, but the way he talks and carries himself and whatnot is very ESFj. He always wants to feed everyone, whether it's by grilling in his back yard or taking them out to eat or if the season does not permit grilling, cooking. His hidden agenda is pretty obvious, too. He's a poor manager of time, but he does whatever he can to avoid being late because he hates being late so much. If someone wants to plan something with him, such as a charity dinner or a bbq, he'll say, "Call my office and tell Nicole to put it on my schedule." Nicole faxes him his updated schedule for the week everyday. She also calls to remind him if he has anything going on that night. Another thing about him that sets him apart from most people is his absolute love for music. His favorite thing to do is go out to see live bands and dance. If he could, he would do this 5 nights a week. In the summer, he often does. He always wants to take care of others, particularly their physical needs, such as reminding them to wear warm socks or long underwear or bring a raincoat. He also tries to be very helpful with things they need like work done on their house or car. If he can't do it, he'll ask around and find someone who can. In relationships, he seems to have a hard time leaving women when he should. He's ended up with a few needy women. He was married to the same woman for 20 years, even though the marriage was never particularly good, and was actually pretty bad for at least the last ten years. Even now he pays her a very generous amount of child support (far beyond what is required by the courts) and borrows her cash whenever she asks. As far as clothing, he's rather fussy about what he wears. He's mentioned that people should never buy him clothes because he has to pick out his own clothes. He dresses well most of the time, but sometimes he wears shirts that you just know are more than a decade old. He buys Dickies for work pants because they are a very high quality brand that does not stain or wear out for many years. His home is not pretty, but he's not often there. In his conversations with others, his voice and voice is very expressive. He's jovial and charismatic and likes to laugh a lot. He's also a very good teacher, as he is very good at explaining things so that people will understand them. He also has a great memory for specific scientific facts that relate to home inspection, generally things he's learned at seminars and conventions. He's perfecctionistic about most aspects of his business. He wanted to make sure that I was trained perfectly well, better than 95% of the seasoned home inspectors in the city, before letting me do home inspections on my own. That's why I decided to work for him, turning down 2 other job offers.

    When I had him read the description of ESFjs (from socion.info and the16types.info), he said that it was a very complimentary description of him. When I told him about duality and described INTjs... his face sorta fell and he was like, "Why does my ideal partner have to be an introvert? I'm not that outgoing..." He wants to be with someone who will go out to eat and out dancing with him all the time. lol
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    I might add that he has a difficult time distinguishing society's morals and expectations from his own. He was upset because his daughter was dating this guy who, in his eyes, was a bum... I asked if he treated her well, and he was like "yeah." I asked "So what's the problem?" and he was like, "The guy's just a bum. He has no money or decent job skills. He's not in school blah blah blah..." He has a hard time understanding what I see in Peter because I'm better at working with tools and whatnot, and Peter isn't (and won't be) working. I told him that of all of the things I could possibly want in a partner, money and someone to do shit around the house for me are very unimportant. I can make my own money, thank you very much. His response is "but why would you want to when you could just marry a guy who makes a decent amount of money?"

    There are few things that irritate me more than gender roles. He knows this about me, but does not begin to understand it.
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    Your boss does sound ESFj. What you described in your second post is his preference.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    explain the Ti preference in there, expat.

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    He has very precise ideas of what a woman should look for a in man for a relationship. He has a clear idea of what makes sense or not in that area, and has difficulty accepting points of view and/or evidence that do not fit into that clear idea. His first instinct is to reject them as obviously wrong.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Default Re: ESFj males


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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    What you described in your second post is his preference.
    I think it has a lot to do with too. He abides by society's norms for things like gender roles and whatnot.
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    Default Re: ESFj males

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    I think what I did being his room mate was help him understand that he doesn't have to do things just because others are : for instance, he likes going out tobars and such for the social scene - meeting people, talking, friends, but he did not like drinking the way... well, most collegers do. So I think I helped him in that way, because I most certainly did my own thing all the time, and it never involved spending time with people I don't want to spend time with. (not that I'm totally anti social, but you know what I mean)

    (... really, I'm not totally anti social)


    Anyways, it took us a while to warm up to each other, but I enjoyed having him as a room mate a lot. I never partook in it, but he often cooked for himself and another friend, and offered rides frequently to many.
    He does seem to be more ESFj than ISFj.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    If you look at people being typed as ESFj, both online and IRL, most of them are women - the vast majority. This may be partly due to a real imbalance - in fact, I think the percentage of ESFjs among women is higher than among men - but also because ESFj women are much more easily recognizable.
    I think this is incidental and is just a result of chance and one's individual typing experience. I personally am better at picking up male ESEs than female, at least among celebrities (among my celebrity ESEs I don't have any women yet). In real life I recognize men and women about equally well. I think it depends who you come across first, and who you get closer to and have more time to observe.

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    ethical men are mistyped as logical. that's the issue. and it's not just with ESFjs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    ethical men are mistyped as logical. that's the issue. and it's not just with ESFjs.
    a lot of ppl were suprised I tested as F.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    If you look at people being typed as ESFj, both online and IRL, most of them are women - the vast majority. This may be partly due to a real imbalance - in fact, I think the percentage of ESFjs among women is higher than among men - but also because ESFj women are much more easily recognizable.
    I think this is incidental and is just a result of chance and one's individual typing experience. I personally am better at picking up male ESEs than female, at least among celebrities (among my celebrity ESEs I don't have any women yet). In real life I recognize men and women about equally well. I think it depends who you come across first, and who you get closer to and have more time to observe.
    Good point. Now i don't know the real percentage men/women among ESFjs, but i find ESFjs females just as few as (supposedely are) ESFj men.

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    i like UDP's description here. i think that sounds pretty much like your average ESFj guy.
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    Default Male ESFjs/ESE men

    Why do they always seem so perfect in all occassions?

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    Because that's what they want you to think, and they're good at making you think it.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    What kind of a question is this?




    You mentioned swooning over an ESXj before....


    However, such people's HA is related to just what your post says - perfection in all situations.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Among all types, they seem to be the one who always appear to be doing the right things at the right time and they know how to present themselves favorably. I'm usually impressed by them until an ISFj friend pointed it out to me that another way of seeing them is that they are too perfect to be true, to the extent that they appear rather fake and seem to lack their own personality because they are always saying or doing the right things. They are too concerned about building a professional facade of themselves and I find it hard to know who they are as a person until I'm in their special circle. I find them rather hard to type as a result.

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    That doesn't ring true for the male ESFjs I know honestly. They are more...spontaneous than perfect.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    That doesn't ring true for the male ESFjs I know honestly. They are more...spontaneous than perfect.
    Only the hot ones are perfect. Average ESFjs are just sort of sporadic and badly pimped out by their POLR - but that happens for any type.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    That doesn't ring true for the male ESFjs I know honestly. They are more...spontaneous than perfect.
    Only the hot ones are perfect. Average ESFjs are just sort of sporadic and badly pimped out by their POLR - but that happens for any type.
    It's nothing to do with their physical attractiveness. What's imperfect about spontaneity anyway? :wink:

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    That doesn't ring true for the male ESFjs I know honestly. They are more...spontaneous than perfect.
    Only the hot ones are perfect. Average ESFjs are just sort of sporadic and badly pimped out by their POLR - but that happens for any type.
    It's nothing to do with their physical attractiveness. What's imperfect about spontaneity anyway? :wink:
    I think they're not compatible. Spontaneous people cannot be perfect because to be perfect you have to watch out for your actions to be compatible with "perfection".
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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    That doesn't ring true for the male ESFjs I know honestly. They are more...spontaneous than perfect.
    Only the hot ones are perfect. Average ESFjs are just sort of sporadic and badly pimped out by their POLR - but that happens for any type.
    It's nothing to do with their physical attractiveness. What's imperfect about spontaneity anyway? :wink:
    I was commenting about my personal attraction to girls with a slight perfectionist streak - and those kinds of ESFjs are always more appealing to me. But I suppose I should have made it more apparent that it was not a totally serious comment.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    That doesn't ring true for the male ESFjs I know honestly. They are more...spontaneous than perfect.
    Only the hot ones are perfect. Average ESFjs are just sort of sporadic and badly pimped out by their POLR - but that happens for any type.
    It's nothing to do with their physical attractiveness. What's imperfect about spontaneity anyway? :wink:
    I was commenting about my personal attraction to girls with a slight perfectionist streak - and those kinds of ESFjs are always more appealing to me. But I suppose I should have made it more apparent that it was not a totally serious comment.
    Yeah you're an anal hardass we all know it.
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    I really do not think I am anal, but, in comparison with everyone else, it does seem a legitimate comparison
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Default Re: Male ESFj

    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Why do they always seem so perfect in all occassions?
    It is because they want to act and dress: CORRECT


    I used to call a colleageu of mine "Mr. Correct"

    And that was before my knowledge of socionics.

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    Default Re: Male ESFj

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    It is because they want to act and dress: CORRECT

    I used to call a colleageu of mine "Mr. Correct"
    I think there could actually be some truth to that. A friend of mine who I think is ESFj has the habit of pointing out stuff like that. For example, if he sees someone who is dressed inappropriately, he would say something like "How can he be dressed like that for this (/ or that) occasion?" And I would be like "what do you care, let him dress the way he wants to".... He can also get a bit frustrated if people he works with don't take care of their "appearance".
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    The male esfj that I know is absolutely obsessed with what other people think. I hate that about him.

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    where are all these male esfjs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    where are all these male esfjs?
    He posted before you.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    where are all these male esfjs?
    He posted before you.
    Hopefully people won't use me as a benchmark for all other ESFJ males.

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    Why not? You're a pretty typical one.

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    What does the gender have to do with anything? All ESFjs pretty much act like that.

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    Default Male ESE-ESFjs

    So what are you relationships with them like?

    Also what are they like in general?

    And of course, does anyone have any experience with them in a beta atmosphere?

    Also does anyone have any comments regarding their uses of Se and Fe? I think I might know one, and it's easy for me to mistake his natural energy and passion for doing, well anything at all, as Se instead of Fe. Though he is more energetic than I would ever expect from a Se ego.
    Easy Day

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    So often they seem like either your average joe typical football-watching semi-jock who likes to cook out and drink beer and do other browski things, or total and complete homosexuals.

  39. #39
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    ESE are mellower then SEE; ESE more focuses on using the external things to make fun or cynical sarcastic jokes of and have fun with; like my boss, ESE, was eating cup o noodles and joking about how long it's been around and that he thinks it survived the last nuclear holocaust and yet here he is eating it.

  40. #40
    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    I don't have any recollection of any in a Beta setting to my memory, might have happened but I didn't realize it. But I typically really like male FeSi, they smile very easily and never miss a beat in a conversation. They tend to be very aware of what's going on at all times and tend to move to interact with whatever while being perfectly fine with you sitting there stationary. I don't really understand where the "jock" and "homosexual" stereotypes come from with them, I don't really get that as being a part of their IE set-up. They tend to be extremely easy going until the moment something goes awry that they deem within the realm of their influence, and start to constantly engage whatever it is until equilibrium is stabilized. I notice that with the men that they lean on their more, which can make conversation with them (on my part) a little strained, because I feel like I have to go in a round-about manner as they try to extract information from me. The FeSi male I'm thinking the most about tends to surround himself with TiSe, TiNe, and SeTi, with the rest of alpha coming in after that, and with an occasional SiTe. He really enjoys NeXi conversation, but doesn't seem to really absorb it, it just seems fun for now.

    Will have to post more in the future the next time I see him

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