Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Pyotr Alexeyevich Kropotkin

  1. #1
    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    Ne-LII, 5w6
    Posts
    3,648
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Pyotr Alexeyevich Kropotkin

    The main thinker behind anarcho-communism, aka "the anarchist prince". Here's the wikipedia article. Despite being born as an aristocrat of highest rank, he took a stand for serfs from an early age and tried to educate them. I see him as a very interesting person of a strong character and high ideals. But I don't know much more about his personal life than what is written in this article. I'm currently reading one of his main books and I suppose he might have overly simplistic views regarding society, but all in all, he definitely has a point.

    Does anyone have an idea about his type?


    Here are some pics & quotes:



    “Prisons are universities of crime, maintained by the state.”

    “The mutual-aid tendency in man has so remote an origin, and is so deeply interwoven with all the past evolution of the human race, that is has been maintained by mankind up to the present time, notwithstanding all vicissitudes of history.”

    “I understand regicide as a means of obtaining vengeance for the ruin of our lives, but regicide as a means of obtaining political freedom I could never understand.”

    "Lenin is not comparable to any revolutionary figure in history. Revolutionaries have had ideals. Lenin has none."

    "There are periods in the life of human society when revolution becomes an imperative necessity, when it proclaims itself as inevitable."

    "Human society is seen to be splitting more and more into two hostile camps, and at the same time to be subdividing into thousands of small groups waging merciless war against each other. Weary of these wars, weary of the miseries which they cause, society rushes to seek a new organization; it clamors loudly for a complete remodeling of the system of property ownership, of production, of exchange and all economic relations which spring from it."

    “Men passionately desire to live after death, but they often pass away without noticing the fact that the memory of a really good person always lives. It is impressed upon the next generation, and is transmitted again to the children. Is that not an immortality worth striving for? ”

    More here.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    18,006
    Mentioned
    162 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ever heard of Redbeard and "All Else is Error"?

  3. #3
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    7,966
    Mentioned
    568 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    EII?

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    18,006
    Mentioned
    162 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    EII?
    I'm not sure, but can be. Know St. Francis, Kropotkin and Tolstoy, but never bothered to actually check it socionics wise.

  5. #5
    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    Ne-LII, 5w6
    Posts
    3,648
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Ever heard of Redbeard and "All Else is Error"?
    Hmm, not as far as I remember. Even thought he could have written the latter quote in some of his publications, stating that anarcho-communism would be the only possibility to get rid of the evils of the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    EII?
    That is a good guess. I'm very sure about Si/Ne, especially this portion of the wikisocion Si description (which I definitely agree to) is something which I keep finding in his book:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikisocion
    Types that value Si prefer to spend their time doing enjoyable activities rather than straining themselves to achieve goals. They like to believe that if activities are done with enjoyment, people will give them more effort and time, and also becoming more skilled at what they are doing in the long run. They believe that goals should suit people's intrinsic needs rather than shaped by the demands and constraints of the external world, and so do not try to force others into doing things they don't want to do. They also try to be easygoing and pleasant, preferring peaceful coexistence to conflict, except when their personal well-being or comfort is directly at stake.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

  6. #6
    silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    TIM
    Ni-IEI sx/sp
    Posts
    3,781
    Mentioned
    317 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    what he describes of his apperception in this quote -

    “...do not the bewitching power of all studies lie in that they continually open up to us new, unsuspected horizons, not yet understood, which entice us to proceed further and further in the penetration of what appears at first sight only in vague outline?”

    is attribute to intuitive, left/involutionary types -

    Left intuitive types: LIE, LII, IEE, IEI - group of general results
    This group is a complete opposite of the previous group. These types are the most "coarse" in their approach to information ... Approximation is characteristic of these types - sequential approach from a vague contour to a more specific result. (link)
    his vision of 'returning to the grassroots' to agriculture and rural life and shunning industrial development, as well as call for decentralization -

    "... To a large degree Kropotkin's emphasis is on local organisation, local production obviating the need for central government. Kropotkin's vision is also on agriculture and rural life, making it a contrasting perspective to the largely industrial thinking of communists and socialists."

    point to democratic quadra and left/involutionary type once again -

    ... Involutionary development proceeds rapidly and irregularly. It is characterized by mutations, jumps, simplification and reorganization of the social system. ... Involutionary progress leads to simplification of life but an excess of vital energy, the restoration of harmony with the natural environment. In its hypertrophied form it leads to conversion of civilized society back to more primitive, traditional forms.(link)

    My guess would be INTj. From the pictures the look in his eyes is rather withdrawn so likely inert i.e. leading function sub: Ti-INTj

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    18,006
    Mentioned
    162 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Whoops.

  8. #8
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    7,966
    Mentioned
    568 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    what he describes of his apperception in this quote -

    “...do not the bewitching power of all studies lie in that they continually open up to us new, unsuspected horizons, not yet understood, which entice us to proceed further and further in the penetration of what appears at first sight only in vague outline?”

    is attribute to intuitive, left/involutionary types -

    his vision of 'returning to the grassroots' to agriculture and rural life and shunning industrial development, as well as call for decentralization -

    "... To a large degree Kropotkin's emphasis is on local organisation, local production obviating the need for central government. Kropotkin's vision is also on agriculture and rural life, making it a contrasting perspective to the largely industrial thinking of communists and socialists."

    point to democratic quadra and left/involutionary type once again -

    My guess would be INTj. From the pictures the look in his eyes is rather withdrawn so likely inert i.e. leading function sub: Ti-INTj
    I'm not sure if any of these points towards involution or democratic signs. Al-through from appearances it can appear like it.

    Decentralization can go different ways, either decentralized more or less fully autonomous cells that are loosely tied together in informal communities, or centralized bodies with division of power and balanced networks of semi-autonomous collaborative that work together via limited regulation.

    Generally delta decentralization refers to more loosely held small communities forming a voluntary confederation, while Alpha centralization generally points towards central control of semi-autonomous groups. This generally results from vs viewpoints.

    Agarian and rural life is imo not a sign of alpha quadra, as generally these social structures are more informal and based on familial and cultural lines. I would go as far as to say Alpha democracy isn't based in decentralization but tolerance/pluralism within a central administrative organization, with few ethical requirements which are often strictly enforced.

    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    “...do not the bewitching power of all studies lie in that they continually open up to us new, unsuspected horizons, not yet understood, which entice us to proceed further and further in the penetration of what appears at first sight only in vague outline?”
    I think this sounds more process then result.

  9. #9
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    LSE he describes what goes on in the state of the society in which he lives in.

  10. #10
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    He looks.... like an ISTp. At first look.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  11. #11
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    He looks.... like an ISTp. At first look.
    Yeah, I agree; makes good sense.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •