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Thread: Conflict Relations Marriages

  1. #1
    Creepy-Snaps

    Default Conflict Relations Marriages

    Hi guys.

    In the past almost 2 years that I've been studying socionics, it seems to me that many people, including me at one point, are forever seeking their dual, because of 1) fear of having a horrible marriage/relationship or 2) desire to have an intimate, positive relationship. Well, this may not be your interpretation, but I get the feeling that the 'obsession' people have with their dual is because of one of these 2 reasons.

    So, as a way to ease people's minds, I started thinking: what if you can handle the worst-case scenario? What if you were married to a conflictor, in a relationship you had to/wanted to make work, what would you do? It occured to me, if we were able to sort of 'minimize the risk', by creating a guide, for how to make a conflictor marriage work, it would greatly relieve everyone's attitudes towards people in their opposing quadra, belief in making any relationship you want work, and realizing that, although socionics is a great asset in assessing compatibility, it's not decisive.

    It would greatly reduce stress people have in dating. If we are able to map out how to make a conflictor relationship work, we will certainly be able to map out a guide to make ANY relationship work.

    So, I know it seems improbable, but. If a couple were able to make a conflictor marriage work, make it a positive one, how would that be possible? All ideas/suggestions from all quadras are welcome.

  2. #2
    Creepy-Snaps

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    I'll start off with my ideas. I want to point out some strengths of the conflictor relationships:

    1) Conflictors generally have great respect for each others' strengths.
    2) Conflictors generally get along extremely well in short periods of time together.

    Maybe, conflictors would have to communicate their general goals to their partner: and then each of them can go separately, to achieve those goals, and then come back together for a short period of time, and discuss results? Basically something like that. Conflictors would have to spend lots of time with friends, to balance them out.

    Conflictor relationships could give the freedom of sort of being your own person still, as opposed to partnering with another person.

    Maybe the benefit of a conflictor marriage, would be, that you are able to be independent, in a way, able to pursue your own passions. If both partners realize they are different, and have different goals, but still respect the marriage and ultimately trust each other, then each person, if realizing they're striving for different things, could sort of root the other one on, without trying to change what they are doing.

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    They would monitor each others weaknesses and therefore strengthen each other for times of stress.

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    I've already named your dual, all you have to do is go there and grab her before someone else does.

    In any case, SLE point out obvious things about me that I don't want pronounced or to be said out loud; these are things about me that I would like to keep under social wraps; for instance, when I was trying to date, I was hanging around local coffee shop a lot; my SLE friend would say things like "she comes here to pick up on sexy men." I was like "stop, it." He was just joking around but yes it gets to my nerves because it was an innocent effort that when said makes one look like a prancer. He does things that annoy me, whether on purpose or not; he not only targeted my pet peeves but I also targeted his as well, making for conflict over time. We look at the world in diametrically opposite ways; what's a joke to him is something sad, heart troubling, and emotional to me. I make GREAT friends with my conflict relations because they give me helpful advice.

    I'm great with my dual and very very very happy. Can't emphasize this enough.

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    Who is Mountain Dew's dual?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    Who is Mountain Dew's dual?
    I don't want to embarrass her; she's a forum member.

    The interesting thing about SLE is that they feel that these things they say about my nature, or intentions, is being "truthful" and "honest" but to me they don't have to be said or "advertised" to the whole world; yes, I like understated intentions that are not advertised to the whole world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I don't want to embarrass her; she's a forum member.
    How would it embarrass anybody by mentioning what their type is? You go around flashing your confirmations anyways, I doubt this is much different.

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    Whose my dual? Tell me! tell me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerorobyn View Post
    How would it embarrass anybody by mentioning what their type is? You go around flashing your confirmations anyways, I doubt this is much different.
    Maybe she doesn't want me to promote a matchy-matchy with MD

    Anyway on SLE: I love SLE but they will say these kinds of things that embarrase me:
    I changed this from a forum member's post:
    Maritsa, even charisma can't mask his ugly appearance.
    You (probably) think he scores 10s 'cuz he's your dual .

    My response:
    "NO, I DON'T!" I like him because of characteristics other than his appearance.

    In which case, an SLE will respond with more wit and sarcasm and in which case, I will get more and more frustrated. This is because I am serious and they are merry type.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-15-2012 at 05:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Maybe she doesn't want me to promote a matchy-matchy with MD
    She wouldn't be matched with MD, she would be matched with MD's [supposed] type.

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    I don't really see why you couldn't mention what type they were, as opposed to a certain person. ._. Based on his type, I'm assuming it would be SLI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dallas View Post
    I don't really see why you couldn't mention what type they were, as opposed to a certain person. ._. Based on his type, I'm assuming it would be SLI.
    The thing is, we don't know what Maritsa types MD. We have to know that before we know who she thinks his dual is.

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    What do I pick on with SLE?

    SLE see other people as appendages to the achievement of their own goals; they are dehumanizing and neglectful of human individuality. This is antithetical to how I see people. They mask people in monolithic groups that all think and act the same way. “The communists” they all think the same and operate the same way. I want them to see the individual human characteristics; I tell them "this is a human being."

    Clint Eastwood is an example of an SLE he monopolizes the talents of his crew; the crew become appendages of Clints visions and they don't really work on any other producer so you don't know their talents. This is why I type Christopher Reeve as SLE also, because when his fans, kids approached him for an autograph, he lumped these kids into the "children of the world," suggesting to the public that "they" should pursue real goals like being fire fighters instead of "the child who admires him and wants his autograph."

    I want to give an example of how George W. Bush Jr mask people masking people in monolithic group "Them and US" we have to fight them over there; al qeada, Islama - fascism.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-15-2012 at 07:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    It occured to me, if we were able to sort of 'minimize the risk', by creating a guide, for how to make a conflictor marriage work, it would greatly relieve everyone's attitudes towards people in their opposing quadra, belief in making any relationship you want work, and realizing that, although socionics is a great asset in assessing compatibility, it's not decisive.
    But why would one want to do that? It's like hitting the nail on its point, unless there's some other gain or want to prove yourself capable to overcome difficulties, I don't see any reason to look for that.
    Shock intuition, diamond logic.
     

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    Computer, brace yourself, I'm about to take a Maritsa post seriously.

    SLE see other people as appendages to the achievement of their own goals; they are dehumanizing and neglectful of human individuality.
    Who are you to decide what is humane or not? I understand you have a big heart but still, you being some spokesperson for humanitarian ideals seems really weird. If you were a true humanitarian wouldn't you be forgiving of other people's inhumanity rather them condemn them for it? Everybody has this inner demon that's hard to slay and I don't think it responds well to other people's judgements? I can't really do this, BG does this much better than me, which is probably why he's slightly more liked than me. I take moral offense to things. It doesn't seem moral to call other people immoral though and punish them for their wrongdoings.

    You'll also say things like 'Fi is empathy' which makes no sense.

    I still like you of course don't take my post the wrong way but you really are cra cra.

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    Ending up married to a conflictor is the bigger mistakes you can make in your life.
    You may like your relationships in insane difficulty mode (in which case you are a masochist). But your children will not appreciate the mode. There is also a lot higher chance that some children will be conflictors with their parent, and that is just tragic and unfair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    It doesn't seem moral to call other people immoral though and punish them for their wrongdoings.
    Either you use same words differently in the same sentence, or you are hilariously hypocritical.
    Morality is about criticizing thoughts and punishing behaviors that you consider immoral.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I've already named your dual, all you have to do is go there and grab her before someone else does.


    One does not simply grab people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    You may like your relationships in insane difficulty mode
    Comparing a relationship to a video game? I think you have confirmed your type right now.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    Ending up married to a conflictor is the bigger mistakes you can make in your life.
    You may like your relationships in insane difficulty mode (in which case you are a masochist). But your children will not appreciate the mode. There is also a lot higher chance that some children will be conflictors with their parent, and that is just tragic and unfair.
    I would love to hear you explain dual relationships/marriages that fail because of difficulties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerorobyn View Post
    I would love to hear you explain dual relationships/marriages that fail because of difficulties.
    Why would I need to do that? Shit happens, but it happens a lot more if you jump in to a septic tank.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    Ending up married to a conflictor is the bigger mistakes you can make in your life.
    I was going to mention this too. I think people end up married to their conflictors when they get married too soon, and/or jump into bed together too soon, as physical intimacy blurs personality incompatibilities, and if you haven't gotten to know the person well enough beforehand, the incompatibilities will all be basked in a rosy glow until reality sets in, perhaps a year or 2 (or more) into marriage.

    Re: dating, i dont think people need to be fearful of dating a conflictor, or what have you. The whole purpose of dating is to get to know someone before committing to them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    Shit happens
    Such as taking a model to evaluate whether or not a relationship will work before the relationship has even began, that sort of shit? If you didn't know about Socionics, I would assume most would think that a lot of relationships these days are those of "conflictors."


    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I think people end up married to their conflictors when they get married too soon, and/or jump into bed together too soon, as physical intimacy blurs personality incompatibilities,
    Better known as todays youth?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    Ending up married to a conflictor is the bigger mistakes you can make in your life.
    You may like your relationships in insane difficulty mode (in which case you are a masochist). But your children will not appreciate the mode. There is also a lot higher chance that some children will be conflictors with their parent, and that is just tragic and unfair.
    what the fuck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerorobyn View Post

    Better known as todays youth?
    sadly...

    Though i dont think this is a new problem at all.. maybe just considered more "mainstream" and acceptable than before.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerorobyn View Post
    Such as taking a model to evaluate whether or not a relationship will work before the relationship has even began, that sort of shit? If you didn't know about Socionics, I would assume most would think that a lot of relationships these days are those of "conflictors."
    If you don't think that some types of people mesh better with certain other types of people and a lot worse with others, you are at the wrong corner of the interwebs.

    I have a lot of experience with conflictor relationships in marriage in particular. My parents are. I can say with full certainty, that conflictor intertype relationships is an opposite of any healthy concept of partnership between married people.
    Also, I am conflictor with one of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I've already named your dual, all you have to do is go there and grab her before someone else does.

    In any case, SLE point out obvious things about me that I don't want pronounced or to be said out loud; these are things about me that I would like to keep under social wraps; for instance, when I was trying to date, I was hanging around local coffee shop a lot; my SLE friend would say things like "she comes here to pick up on sexy men." I was like "stop, it." He was just joking around but yes it gets to my nerves because it was an innocent effort that when said makes one look like a prancer. He does things that annoy me, whether on purpose or not; he not only targeted my pet peeves but I also targeted his as well, making for conflict over time. We look at the world in diametrically opposite ways; what's a joke to him is something sad, heart troubling, and emotional to me. I make GREAT friends with my conflict relations because they give me helpful advice.

    I'm great with my dual and very very very happy. Can't emphasize this enough.
    This is what my Si-LSE grandma does, thats exactly how I experince things when with her.

    @OP, I think socionics can be useful to handle things better (not get stressed) when forced to hang around a conflictor but I would'nt willingly enter a relationship with one & expect it to somehow work... when over time it's obvious that it's ever not going to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post

    So, as a way to ease people's minds, I started thinking: what if you can handle the worst-case scenario? What if you were married to a conflictor, in a relationship you had to/wanted to make work, what would you do?
    There is a Russian article on the subject on how to get the 16 relationships to work, despite of the incompatibility. I'll try to find the link.

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    I was looking for this, It's taken from here

    btw, conflict is not necessarily the worst relation. According to some sources it would be super-ego relations.

    Advice on getting along (conflict relations)

    These relations give rise to ever-present inner tension. People tied by these relations over time become nervous and irritable. In collaboration with your conflict partner, strictly divide duties among yourselves and carry them out according to firm schedule/plan. Rationalizations will help you keep internal nervousness at bay and channel accumulated energy into useful things of service-homecaring nature or leisure time.

    It is recommended to use humor and jokes to uplift each other's moods. However, joke carefully and avoid sarcasm. Once you feel that the tension has reached a critical point, it is best that you leave the territory of a partner, for example, got to a different room.

    Do not allow any middlemen in your relations. Household duties perform together, but do not take up the same duty together. Avoid surprises, fancies, novelties, as your partner is likely to react negatively to them.

    Keep fidelity out of a sense of duty, consciously suppress resentment and antipathy. Make it a tradition to celebrate the most pleasant moments of your relationship. Help each other in the most difficult moments. This way you will see responsiveness and effectiveness of these relations in the pursuit of mutual interests against outside pressures and adversity.

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    Maritsa and Matt Leblanc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nowisthetime View Post
    There is a Russian article on the subject on how to get the 16 relationships to work, despite of the incompatibility. I'll try to find the link.
    Would you mind posting the link to where we can read the others?
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Would you mind posting the link to where we can read the others?

    Just check the articles on the relationships we have in this forum. They all contain the part "Advice on getting along". By Gulenko.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nowisthetime View Post
    Just check the articles on the relationships we have in this forum. They all contain the part "Advice on getting along". By Gulenko.
    Got it thanks!!
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    Socionics aside, how does one map out a path to making a relationship work that is not already a working matter naturally? I would define a 'working' relationship as a process that is born and proceeds naturally and happily; if you dislike your relationship and have to follow some complex map to make it 'work', is that really 'working'? Dunno if it's just me here, but I would jump ship for the benefit of both of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    Ending up married to a conflictor is the bigger mistakes you can make in your life.
    You may like your relationships in insane difficulty mode (in which case you are a masochist). But your children will not appreciate the mode. There is also a lot higher chance that some children will be conflictors with their parent, and that is just tragic and unfair.
    I agree with you. I know a conflictor marriage personally and it's not happy. Even keeping distance from each other, things are tense and the SLE DOES embarrass the EII quite often. She stays away from him, doesn't really want to be seen with him. He walks on egg shells with her.... trust me, it's bad. Due to religious reasons, they're still together after 21 years of marriage. But it's not happy and the kids know it and they've been a terrible model of marriage to the kids (unless you think that marriage is only about staying together no matter what) and they know it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlast View Post
    Socionics aside, how does one map out a path to making a relationship work that is not already a working matter naturally? I would define a 'working' relationship as a process that is born and proceeds naturally and happily; if you dislike your relationship and have to follow some complex map to make it 'work', is that really 'working'? Dunno if it's just me here, but I would jump ship for the benefit of both of us.
    EXACTLY. In a conflictor marriage, it's almost like the harder you work, the worse it gets. It's better to just ignore the other person. And who wants to have to ignore their spouse? It's a mess. Don't try this at home, people.

    /thread. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    EXACTLY. In a conflictor marriage, it's almost like the harder you work, the worse it gets. It's better to just ignore the other person. And who wants to have to ignore their spouse? It's a mess. Don't try this at home, people.
    I'd like to emphasize the point that the best way to deal with your conflictor is not a good way to deal with your dual, or most other relationships really, so preparing for the worst case does not really help with the average case. If you want to get along with someone regardless of what their type is or even whether you've typed them wrong, then ignoring Socionics (and going with generic interpersonal advice that can already be found from many other sources) is probably best.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    I'd like to emphasize the point that the best way to deal with your conflictor is not a good way to deal with your dual, or most other relationships really, so preparing for the worst case does not really help with the average case. If you want to get along with someone regardless of what their type is or even whether you've typed them wrong, then ignoring Socionics (and going with generic interpersonal advice that can already be found from many other sources) is probably best.
    I dont generally disagree. I see Socionics as one diode of temperament that being and thought are processed through. No matter what is processed, the difference is only degrees of the same energy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    Also, I am conflictor with one of them.
    Oh, damn son. That's some serious shit. Almost makes me want to cry you a river.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlast View Post
    Socionics aside, how does one map out a path to making a relationship work that is not already a working matter naturally? I would define a 'working' relationship as a process that is born and proceeds naturally and happily; if you dislike your relationship and have to follow some complex map to make it 'work', is that really 'working'? Dunno if it's just me here, but I would jump ship for the benefit of both of us.
    Every relationship will have its difficulties. If you get in the habit of quitting, or "jumping ship", then you'll never learn what it takes to make a relationship work. Even duality takes effort. Jumping ship is not a good habit to get into, when the going gets tough.

    Life is a roller coaster, not a merry-go-round. Worst case, you get in the habit of bailing when it's tough, and you'll drift through several marriages, constantly looking for that 'perfect person', instead of embracing that everyone has weaknesses, and sticking with something to make it work.

    There are many reasons why someone would want to make a marriage work:
    1) for the kids.
    2) dating/searching for someone else would be a hassle/too time-consuming.
    3) monetary issues, trouble splitting assets.
    4) memories together/emotionally not wanting to be a mess, for possibly the next several years of your life.
    5) religious beliefs, that marriage should last.

    Obviously my beliefs aren't yours. Obviously not all the reasons above are important to everyone. But certainly, there is a desire by some to make a relationship work, despite realizing they're married to a conflictor, so this thread is important.

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    EXACTLY. In a conflictor marriage, it's almost like the harder you work, the worse it gets. It's better to just ignore the other person. And who wants to have to ignore their spouse? It's a mess. Don't try this at home, people.

    /thread. lol
    If you look at Gulenko's tips for conflictor marriages, it's not about "working harder". It's about being smart. So you also don't see value in sticking with a relationship? You are divorced, correct, redbaron? Did your marriage fail you, or did you fail your marriage?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    There are many reasons why someone would want to make a marriage work:
    1) for the kids.
    2) dating/searching for someone else would be a hassle/too time-consuming.
    3) monetary issues, trouble splitting assets.
    4) memories together/emotionally not wanting to be a mess, for possibly the next several years of your life.
    5) religious beliefs, that marriage should last.
    Only one of those reasons is any good of a reason, and even that not always applies. Sometimes it is better for the kids that parents separate than have a terrible relationship in front of the kids. And terrible is a very likely scenario for conflict relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    If you look at Gulenko's tips for conflictor marriages, it's not about "working harder". It's about being smart. So you also don't see value in sticking with a relationship? You are divorced, correct, redbaron? Did your marriage fail you, or did you fail your marriage?
    Those instruction are about making the best of shitty situation and they do imply a lot of work.

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