Protect other people
Serve the Community
Keep things in harmony
Enforce the law
Punish bad people
Observe and report things that look unusual
Enforce the will of some higher authority
"Police" only exist as an idea about what a person actually is
Fuck the Police
To be your best friend (would you like to know more?)
Don't do drugs
Other (written below)
Exercise their authority
Teach other people to be respectful
They are predators which prey on other people
They are pawns on the chessboard of some more powerful authority
What are Police
Seriously I was thinking about this the other day, what are police, why have police?
Please feel free to give your opinion, I've made a poll as well with preset options -- it would be appreciated if you could select which item is closest to your ideas on the subject.
In order to advance and defend its prerogatives, the state arrogates rightful use of force to itself. To this end, police are a self-interested means by which the state harnesses and directs the energy of society's members who'd otherwise be gangsters and robbers engaged in undermining, rather than enforcing and embodying, the state's pretense of authority.
Originally Posted by Ekpyrosos
The government pays police for protection services. The government is elected by the people, and the people pay the government taxes. Therefore, the people are paying for protection services. Therefore, we the people are all hoes, and the police are our pimplords. Flawless logic.
Ehh. Didn't vote. There was no 'kill people' option.
Oh crap, did you just write that?
Take note of the writing style.
I don't share the "all cops are bastards" mentality of some people and I also don't think that the police recruits it's members mostly from would-be criminals and thugs. The requirements are relatively high in Germany, you can't be policeman if you have any kind of criminal record (before you join the police, that is). Of course, there will always be those who "enjoy" their job too much. It's also self-evident that there is a group of policemen here, who are always the ones to show up in full body armor at political protests. Because they are willing (and sometimes eager) to fight. People can't be divided into "good" and "bad" guys, that's a very dangerous simplification. That's why the work of the police will never be purely beneficial to the people.
However, I definitely see any roles of forced authority as unjustified (there might be exceptions, like the parent-child relation up to a certain age imho). In the Stanford Prison Experiment we saw how people may react once they receive a badge, a baton and some orders. And in the Milgram Experiment we witnessed how conditioned and manipulated the people of today are, to follow the authority figure without even thinking about the consequences.
In this poll, the last option well reflected what I think. People with good intentions can quickly become eager supporters and enforcers of injustice, because they just do what they think is right. It's not easy to make your mind free from all the societal standards we've learned our whole life. All authority cripples the people in their development, because it decides for them what is right, what goal should be achieved, ect. Imagine your parents would still treat you like you were a child. It's the same situation today. The state denies the people's ability to handle their disputes on their own. And that's why they will never learn how to resolve conflict without bloodshed or any other violence.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
Police are people that allowed themselves to be hired to be a Policeperson and have yet to be retired, fired, killed, policenapped, demoted or graduated.
ps. They could be cats in some places.
Try "enough cops are bastards to tarnish the rest".
Yet criminal motivation and intention may be present, and even criminal opportunity, but no crime exists until inhibition gives way to criminal action (and we can even argue that no laws are broken until a person is actually caught and convicted). So criminal latency may well exist in many a recruit, and we can say in plain fact, that the police do recruit from would-be criminals.
And so these are the thugs whose latent criminality has been awakened, and who just happen to have already assimilated themselves to the civil apparatus wherewith the self-interested state exercises its self-appointed monopoly on violence. Motivation, intention, opportunity, execution — boom: legal gangsters, especially if they 1) develop a taste for this chickenshit predation and 2) aid and abet one another's crimes. How do you suppose these individuals would sate their appetite for physical coercion if not for the "lawful" outlet afforded by membership in a state-sanctioned enforcer cadre? A bowling league or a skinhead gang? Racketeering or community gardens?
That might work, especially because "enough" can be virtually every amount.
I think everyone has the potential to commit crimes, just in different ways. How can you be so sure that policemen are often criminals, who are just on the "other" side? One of my teachers once said he wanted to join the police. (He couldn't because he is colour-blind.) He taught the ethics class and I think he's everything but a criminal. That's what I meant by "good intentions and unwittingly serving the wrong". If you identify something as wrong, you'd oppose it. And that's what everyone does in a different manner and intensity. Some may think the police just uses a "justified" amount of violence, and so they get sucked in the group pressure of protecting the crimes of others.
It's wrong in any way. People shouldn't commit crimes, whether it's sanctioned by the state or not. Of course, this is a idealist perspective and the reality looks different (as there is no balck & white, as I said). I'm not entirely sure what are you want to say. Do you think the police should exist as a "counterweight" to the regular criminals, meaning that one force balances the other?
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
.The governmental department charged with the regulation and control of the affairs of a community, now chiefly the department established to maintain order, enforce the law, and prevent and detect crime.
Smash the state?
Police violate my attempt to live my life as I want to live it. They may not be evil but they're my enemies even if "they're just doing their jobs". They chose their way of limiting my freedom and I chose my way to stand against it as long as I don't harm others. They're still mere pawns, usually thinking that they are doing the right thing.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
Okay, that makes sense. It's similar to the military attracting nazis and letting them do what they want as long as they don't lose control.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
Badaboom, badabing.
they're criminals without style.
crime is implicitly sanctioned by the state's existence -- that's the entire basis of the game lol.
Last edited by strrrng; 03-04-2012 at 03:30 PM.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Same as with government, you get the police your nations population as whole deserves. Scumbags are naturally attracted to position of power, but it takes apathy and ignorance of majority to actually allow the abuse.
Police have a perfectly good role in society and there are plenty of countries where they fulfill that role very well.
Police & public safety
List of mottos
- Carabineros de Chile: Orden y Patria (Latin: Order and Fatherland)
- Chicago Police Department: We Serve and Protect
- Detroit Police Department: Making Detroit a Safer Place to Live, Work, and Visit
- El Paso Police Department: Dedicated to Serve
- Los Angeles Airport Police: Serving the Aviation Community
- Los Angeles Police Department: To Protect and to Serve
- Maine State Police: Semper Aequus (Latin: Always Just)
- Metropolitan Police: Working together for a Safer London
- Minneapolis Police Department: To Protect with Courage, To Serve with Compassion
- New South Wales Police: Culpam Poena Premit Comes (Latin: Punishment Follows Close on Guilt)
- New York Police Department: Fidelis ad Mortem (Latin: Faithful until Death)
- Philadelphia Police Department: Honor, Integrity, Service
- Prince Georges county Fire & EMS: Keepin it Safe
- Queensland Police: With Honour We Serve
- Royal Canadian Mounted Police: Maintiens le droit (French: We maintain the Right / Uphold the law)
- San Francisco Police Department: Oro en Paz/Hierro en Guerra (Spanish: ''Gold in Peace, Iron in War)
- Staffordshire Police: Keeping our communities safe and reassured
- Thames Valley Police: Sit pax in valle tamesis (Latin: Let there be peace in the Thames Valley)
- Trinity House: Trinitas in unitate (Latin: United in the Trinity)
- West Midlands Police: Forward in Unity, Serving our communities, protecting them from harm
- Veterans Affairs Police: Protecting Those Who Served
@http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mottos
Hey assholes, it's policepeople or policepersons!
"•Queensland Police: With Honour We Serve"
with sprinkles?
Haha, this thread is nearly full with victimised people.
It's easy to be idealistic and sentimental about freedom, but the reason freedom is taken away is because people abuse it. If we had a country of people tending to their duties, government would not even need to exist. Without criminals, how could there be police? Without corporations dumping waste into marshes, there would be no environmental protection laws. Government only expands out of people neglecting their responsibilities. Every person has a role in creating the government by a force of hand. To complain about the government is to ignore the real problem, which is peoples behavior.
Yeah, but what if it's a vicious cycle? Maybe there are so many criminals because our current society "creates" them and keeps itself necessary because it has to fight them.
As I said: The government has a major influence on people's behavior, more than most people would think in my opinion.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
Only is only influenced by something or somebody as long one wants it.
No, definitely not. Sometimes you may choose who you listen to and who you ignore, but you are influenced by almost everything and everyone you encounter. And that happens whether you want it or not.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
Most middle and high school bullies I used to know are now either in the police or military, and I've personally been 1) harassed on multiple occasions; 2) not protected at least twice. So, I just try to stay away from policemen.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Now you hurt my feelings but I'll survive. Thing is, you're taking a submissive stance totally devoid of any active resistance and will, no wonder you get walked over. In other words you go with the flow.
Influence is the power of persons or things which produce effects and actions, as in exerting influence over someone. Bear in mind that a priest is reverend only so far as you reverence him. If you cease to reverence him, he is no longer reverend for you. Same with policemen. You and only you, have power to make and unmake policemen.
Not quite Simon but Absurd says clap your hands and jump. Nah, Absurd says most men are deprived of their reason under the influence of their ideals and this describes perfectly above posters.
I know what you're talking about although the bullies I knew, two of them are still in prison, one got out after he did time for rape. Elite Police Force.
Last edited by Absurd; 03-04-2012 at 06:28 PM.
In theory, police are supposed to defend and stick up for the weak and be noble and heroic and brave and all that.
In practice, they are dumb dim-witted brutes who pick on the weak and are nasty to them.
I think the police in big, liberal cities are much, much, much, much, much, much better than the police in small towns though. I remember in chicago once or somewhere, two nice police officers waved to me in a friendly way. I don't think all of them are assholes, but of course most of them are or they wouldn't have that reputation. And most of them just aren't very bright at all.
Lol. Well, perhaps those were "mild" bullies - they just liked to beat up people, smash wooden sticks on their back, etc. what I meant to say is - I don't look forward to when they'll stop me and try to teach me how to live in a "civil" society, so to speak.
Once, I've been pulled over because I was walking in town with a black girl (I was dating her at the time). They wanted me to give 'em my documents so as to prove I am an italian citizen, but I was just walking randomly 5mins from my house, so I didn't have anything with me. They actually pulled me over to the police station and phoned my parents.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
You say you're in a hurry, works for me. I can talk out myself out quite few things.
When I was younger though and checking some new place out with a friend and his brother. Two cops appeared out of nowhere, grabbed my friend by the arm and told to walk to an isolated spot. Asked for our IDs. His brother was still underage back then. I said I have none on me and asked why are they checking us out and they replied I look suspicious. Until this day I don't know what is to be "suspicious looking."
There was another time. It was Saturday. 1 PM. There were three of us again. Me, my pal, and some guy I don't know. They've stopped us in front of a store in number of two gruesome cops, asked questions pertaining our disposition towards being at this particular place at this particular hour so I started laughing. Even though we were standing face to face one of them still managed to ask my friend "is he always laughing" instead of me.
They've kept us for 30 mins in one spot allegedly checking our identity and incidentally a footie match finished its duration so again one of them says "oh, I see your friends are coming back" and I am like what the fuck. Best part is, this guy I don't know starts to ask questions in return as to why the hassle and one of them coppers replied that there is a suspicion we want rob the store (Saturday. Lost of people. 1 PM)
Anyway, enough. There's more but I'm not sharing anything besides that.
Some kind of behavior enforcement is obviously required.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."-Edmund Burke
The more people act with solidarity and virtue, the less there is need for tax funded fascists.
This is not idealism. That's just how it is.
The following is idealism,
People, please enforce virtue with example and team up against all kind of oppression, including the oppression from the authorities. I see anarchist moves desirable for a cause freedom civil disobedience.
I am Jack's smirking revenge.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
the police are the boring people being annoying
No kind sir it is not. People are moved by the ideal of "religion", "patriotism", "morality" or "smash the state", and this is what you fight for. You become irrational and irresponsible under the influence of your ideals.
I'm BnD's cock.I am Jack's smirking revenge.
That is what the selfless martyr achieves - man overcomes this mechanism through self sacrifice. That is what Christ put into the heart & soul of the entire collective mind. It is each persons plight whether they allow themselves to be determined by the world, its injustices and its pains; or whether they overcome the world in the same way Christ overcame it. Following Christ will quite literally save you from this determination. As for the spiritual ramifications of that psychic transformation, decide for yourself.
Government cannot have any power except by people giving it to them. Every little thing we do in our daily lives that causes harm gives the mass an incentive to cry out to the government. The government meets the demands of the crying masses. We harm the earth, one another, and we grow the government.
Even attacking another person over the internet contributes to the processes which build the government. Unless you are like Ghandi, then do not complain about the government.
Even then, complaining isn't the right method; the best revolutions are always fought with demonstrations of peace. Complaining is still asking the government to fix the problems. All complaining will lead to is the government flip flopping between leadership styles, all the while expanding itself, until it has become overwhelmingly massive and it engulfs the entire world. Which is exactly what has happened with the united states. The USA, by patriotism and glorifying free speech somehow believed that complaining actually accomplishes something.
Free speech is good, but unless it's spoken in the spirit of peace and humility, it makes problems worse and strengthens the government. We are all well aware humanity is not capable of controlling itself, in any regard much less their speech.
There isn't a solution to this problem of growing government, because humanity will not change. That is why the world is on a collision course with a massive, horrendous disaster. The battle for the world is already lost - the world died. Life on earth is really a religious plight at this point. THe world is done. So do yourself a favor and worry more about that, and less about the government.
I'm not saying not to care about the government or the world; care about it in the same way you care for a dying person. That's all it really is, a dying human race.
Last edited by rat1; 03-05-2012 at 05:43 AM.
Having police, or the concept thereof, is necessary for us to live in a society where people feel protected from crazy and/or aggressive people. I can think of tons of situations where having police is justified, such as a little old gramma having her house broken into and having a reliable protector on speedial. However, yeah, there are definitely corrupt police officers, but there's bound to be corruption in any given human institution. For those of you who might not agree with having police officers, you should spend some time in a third-world country where crime is high.
Police are pretty much people who have LSI EMs. That's the core of the department, anyway. Their aim is to preserve the state.
There are also from SLE EMs (soldiers) and ESE EMs (detectives, marshals, and prosecutors) in the mix as well.
But it's basically that triad -- LSI, SLE, and ESE -- which shapes law enforcement.
I know and hang out with lots of police - including FBI and DEA. (I was in the US Marines, lots of cops are former Marines) and I notice quite a few ENFps, and ESFps. Overall, a lot of them are E-P temperments. Lots of creative Fi - it is clearly useful in police work. I would also say there are lots of ESFjs.
EDIT: The typical rookie cop is what ever the hell Mountain Dew is !!!
Last edited by Saberstorm; 03-05-2012 at 06:22 AM.
I agree to some point, but I also believe that about 90% of the crimes are preventable by better living conditions. I also believe in loose gun control and dutiful training for self-defence.
I assumed your stance was something along these lines. I wonder if you could explicate how it would be done in practice or is it just that simple that you break the position of government? Why wouldn't that possible lead to arms race where there are private armies competing territorially and then, in time, reforming the governments role as the violence machinery monopoly?
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
You don't need to tell me exactly how ignorance and apathy work. I know. It is ignorance not to see government, law and it's enforcement as part of one life, because it has a huge effect on it. It is also ignorance to think that you will not get screwed over if you don't get informed and take a stand. It is apathy not to care until the boot will stamp YOUR face.
I realistically expect people to remember the importance of the civic involvement the hard way.
I am petty sure that majority of people would have zero problems on agreeing that policemen shouldn't abuse their power. So why do they in US? The quality of civic participation...
So you have problem with corruption in law enforcement therefore you want to legalize the corruption? You are out of your mind.
Arguably, payment of taxes is wholly voluntary, though punitive consequences exist to dissuade noncompliance. Regarding the reach and viability of quasi-governmental business institutions and their private armies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company And this industrial family would also approve of your contention that arms races are expensive, though their ledgerbooks deny that pitting the pride of one nation's army against another is unprofitable: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krupp
To me all law rests ultimately upon the power of superior arms, be they ecclesiastic, corporeal, financial, etc. If government(s) were shrunken into inconsequentiality or wiped away, I only see market forces replacing their legalistic, social-ordering functions, including (and especially by means of) interference in market affairs and the raising of military powers. So whether hegemonic entities are termed governments or not, if they adumbrate law and enforce its application, the difference is only nominal. And minorities will continue to exert power over the masses exactly for the reason you stated, that the latter are too caught up in the necessities of their daily routines to perform their own administrative, legal, and protective services, or to adequately resist the imposition of the same. It's only in sparsely populated rural regions beyond the control of administrative centers where non-governmental self-determination becomes possible, and to an extent, only because it's so infrequently necessary.
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