Results 1 to 34 of 34

Thread: IEE-SEI semi-duality relations: Fi-Fe collision (ISFp and ENFp)

  1. #1
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default IEE-SEI semi-duality relations: Fi-Fe collision (ISFp and ENFp)

    So yesterday my SEI gf and I had an Fe-Fi collision. What happened?

    I was cooking dinner and something went wrong, which stressed me out and pissed me off. So my gf starts to laugh. So I get angry: "What the fuck are you laughing about? Dinner is getting burned, I'm standing here stressed out and you start to laugh!"

    Socionics in action: Fi reproach against an Fe attempt to uplift my spirits...
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  2. #2

  3. #3
    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    emotionz
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    1,114
    Mentioned
    100 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I've had this sort of collision in the past.

    I do think the IEE wants to be concretely helped out, but the SEI's gut reaction is to provide some kind of emotional assistance, which isn't at all what the IEE needs. Conversely, when the SEI is in need of Ti, Fi can seem really "too nice" and beside the point. Semi-duality...

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    TIM
    IEI
    Posts
    135
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Could you explain the Ti - Fi thing you mentioned a bit further? Like with an example. How does Fi approach an Fe when it needs Ti.. ?

  5. #5
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kent Lorne View Post
    Could you explain the Ti - Fi thing you mentioned a bit further? Like with an example. How does Fi approach an Fe when it needs Ti.. ?
    An answer to this question would be helpful indeed!

    ETA: I mean, how is the Fi received by the Ti requestor? From an Fi-creative POV, I can say I respond to someone else's distress by letting them express their distress, let them get it out of their system by making them feel their emotions are understood and accepted by me, without any attempts to change these emotions. Or to put it differently: give them a big, comforting hug.
    Last edited by consentingadult; 02-24-2012 at 08:52 AM. Reason: typo
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  6. #6
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I'd have probably laughed too—but not to uplift anyone's spirits. I just usually laugh at fucked up situations.
    Schadenfreude. So, how do your duals respond to that when you do this? Surely such a thing would not be permissible according to their Fi approach to proper conduct.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  7. #7
    Korpsy Knievel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,234
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Schadenfreude. So, how do your duals respond to that when you do this? Surely such a thing would not be permissible according to their Fi approach to proper conduct.
    Cooking isn't exactly rocket science but I'd expect a measure of sympathy unless I threw a tantrum like you did, which deserved the laughter it received.

  8. #8
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    'Proper conduct' according to whom or what? If something's funny, I'm going to laugh.

    If something hurts the person's feelings and I care about them, I might not find it so funny (and hence wouldn't feel the impulse to laugh). But otherwise, I'm not going to restrain myself out of some sense of "proper conduct." Fuck that arbitrary shit.
    I was not asking about your motivations or calling them into question, so don't feel attacked. I just wanted to know how your duals, ESIs, respond to these Schadenfreude manifestations of yours. I ask this, because I think they'd disapprove, unless they are antisocial ESIs, of course, which does sometimes occur.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  9. #9
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I'm sure it would depend on the person or situation being laughed at. I could see them laughing at (or being annoyed by) someone throwing a tantrum like in your situation, too.
    Again, you are not answering my question: how do ESIs respond to you, when you laugh at such things. Now of course you don't have to answer and you can say what you want to say in this thread, but I think it would be interesting to learn about it, as it could be socionically relevant.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  10. #10
    Korpsy Knievel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,234
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Yeah, I was kinda thinking the same when I 1st read the OP.
    I wondered what CA was looking for by showing up with a one-sided sob-story about fucking up a basic life skill in front of the other party to the event, who just happens to be absent from this discussion.

  11. #11
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Like I said, it depends on the situation or person being laughed at. If it's something where they thought the person deserved being laughed at, they'd be laughing too.

    I can't recall any instances of being castigated by an ESI for laughing at a dysfunctional situation like the one you described, if that's what you're wondering. Usually our senses of humor run in parallel.
    Let me rephrase the question, since your answer seems to be in response to "tantrums", which is actually a way of reframing the events that happened in a way that suits your arguments. Now I can imagine someone else seeing my response to my GF as a tantrum, but she was not laughing at my tantrum, because at that stage, there was (not yet) a tantrum. I was in distress, complaining about the things going wrong. Only after my GF started lauging, I got angry at her and perhaps you could think that was a tantrum.

    Assume the following situation: you are with someone who is in distress, e.g. because dinner is burning and they say, "Dammit, everything is going wrong!". Or they slipped on a banana peel. You laugh about that, in your case because because you think it's funny (I assume you are not laughing because they deserved it). In that case, an ESI would be laughing too, or support you in your laughter?

    And what if the person in distress was ESI themselves?
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  12. #12
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Depends on the person and how I feel towards them.

    If it was an SO I'd probably just laugh reassuringly, calmly intervene, and correct whatever was going wrong.

    Umm, depends on the nature of the incident. Is this person seriously injured from it—i.e., did they fall and suffer a skull fracture from it? Or did they just take a fall and get back up on their feet fine?

    Depends on the individual and the relationship I have with them.
    Well, I'm glad that you're already expressing some more nuance now. It also seems like you don't think the response of ESIs would be determined by the dynamics of Socionics. If so, I'd disagree, but I respect your opinion.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  13. #13
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I just don't believe in warping my conceptions of other human beings to oversimplified prescriptive stereotypes like that. Life is complicated, people are complicated, and there's no way I can tell you "what ESIs would do" in such generic scenarios.
    Like I said, we disagree then. I think that ESIs typically would respond by providing some form of support (unless the distress is of a hysterical nature, or if the ESI is an antisocial person) and that they'd disapprove of Schadenfreude, although they might not always reproach (to what they'd consider) the 'offender'.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  14. #14
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 6 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,594
    Mentioned
    631 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    If I'm stressed over something thats really not a big deal like burnt dinner it can be nice if somebody laughs about it to put it in perspective. I can't say if id laugh at somebody else or not because it depends, but I thought the op was funny. most likely id quietly start helping, disposing of the burnt food or something.

  15. #15
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,625
    Mentioned
    156 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Schadenfreude. So, how do your duals respond to that when you do this? Surely such a thing would not be permissible according to their Fi approach to proper conduct.
    Dude, you just burnt a dinner, it's not even something you can truly be schadenfreudig about.

    Like I said, we disagree then. I think that ESIs typically would respond by providing some form of support (unless the distress is of a hysterical nature, or if the ESI is an antisocial person) and that they'd disapprove of Schadenfreude, although they might not always reproach (to what they'd consider) the 'offender'.
    They'd likely not be so neurotic about a burnt dinner.

    In that case, an ESI would be laughing too, or support you in your laughter?
    An ESI would initially lol@you, then feel guilty if/when he/she notices that you're hurt, call and ambulance and cook you dinner for 3 months.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  16. #16
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    We shouldn't focus too much on the particular circumstances of this example. To me, what is most important about this kind of interaction, is that someone is actively trying to change my emotions. This doesn't go down well with me, even when the intention by itself is good.

    I think this is a fundamental difference between Alphas and Betas on the one hand, and Gammas and Deltas on the other hand. Generally speaking, for Alphas and Betas, when they are experiencing 'negative' emotions, it helps if someone lifts their spirits. Gammas and Deltas benefit more from an approach that allows 'negative' emotions to be experienced. Recipes that work for Fe quadras actually worsen the problem in Fi quadras, and vice versa.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  17. #17
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Dude, you just burnt a dinner, it's not even something you can truly be schadenfreudig about.
    What do you mean, that I myself was schadenfreudig about burnt dinner?
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  18. #18
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,625
    Mentioned
    156 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Perhaps it's just you not liking people to lift your spirits..

    What do you mean, that I myself was shadenfreudig about burnt dinner?
    No...you "accused" Ashton of Schadenfreude. I personally say, a burnt dinner isn't enough of a trigger for Schadenfreude.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  19. #19
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 6 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,594
    Mentioned
    631 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think everyone wants to be heard out and have their feelings validated. nobody wants to be laughed at when they feel like their problem is worth being taken seriously.

  20. #20
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Perhaps it's just you not liking people to lift your spirits..
    What is the reason for this 'ad hominem' approach to discussion, twisting words and taking things out of context? Don't bother to answer.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  21. #21
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,625
    Mentioned
    156 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    What is the reason for this 'ad hominem' approach to discussion, twisting words and taking things out of context? Don't bother to answer.
    It's not ad hominem attack. Maybe you really don't like that approach and it doesn't have to do with quadra, Fi, Fe, etc.

    Or, maybe, it has to do with you being ENFp and having a dual with Fe PoLR, perhaps an INTp would enjoy mild cheerfulness as a way to be relieved from a depressive episode.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  22. #22
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    I think everyone wants to be heard out and have their feelings validated. nobody wants to be laughed at when they feel like their problem is worth being taken seriously.
    In a sense, this is very true: the question is, how do you go about it? I can very much imagine an ILE in my case would have responded positively to my girlfriends actions. I see it in her interactions with other Alphas that it works better than in her interactions with Gammas and Deltas.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  23. #23
    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    TIM
    IEI 4-6-9 apparently
    Posts
    2,744
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    I think everyone wants to be heard out and have their feelings validated. nobody wants to be laughed at when they feel like their problem is worth being taken seriously.
    I agree. I've been on both sides of the situation. When I'm the one upset, I've appreciated laughing to see the light side, and I've appreciated hugs and help and sympathy when it's a more serious matter. I don't think it's a Fe laughing vs. Fi sympathy dichotomy, although Fe and Fi valuers may disagree on which sorts of situations merit which approach...
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

  24. #24
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 6 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,594
    Mentioned
    631 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Smh

  25. #25
    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Behind you
    TIM
    sle sp/sx 845
    Posts
    4,956
    Mentioned
    137 Post(s)
    Tagged
    15 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    So yesterday my SEI gf and I had an Fe-Fi collision. What happened?

    I was cooking dinner and something went wrong, which stressed me out and pissed me off. So my gf starts to laugh. So I get angry: "What the fuck are you laughing about? Dinner is getting burned, I'm standing here stressed out and you start to laugh!"

    Socionics in action: Fi reproach against an Fe attempt to uplift my spirits...
    You take things way too fucking seriously.

  26. #26
    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Behind you
    TIM
    sle sp/sx 845
    Posts
    4,956
    Mentioned
    137 Post(s)
    Tagged
    15 Thread(s)

    Default

    i feel sorry for your sei gf... must be hard to put up with you.

  27. #27
    Grand Inquisitor Bardia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    1,258
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    So yesterday my SEI gf and I had an Fe-Fi collision. What happened?

    I was cooking dinner and something went wrong, which stressed me out and pissed me off. So my gf starts to laugh. So I get angry: "What the fuck are you laughing about? Dinner is getting burned, I'm standing here stressed out and you start to laugh!"

    Socionics in action: Fi reproach against an Fe attempt to uplift my spirits...
    I could see myself potentially laughing at a someone who is close to me react to a situation like that. I'd probably add something like "It's okay. Don't worry about it." I'm pretty sure I would not react positively to your reaction. Regardless of the fact that she laughed and you deem that something inappropriate to do, it's not her fault you burned dinner and you took your frustration out on her unfairly.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Bardia0
    http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Bardia0

  28. #28
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    I like to provide physical comfort and words of reassurance that everything's gonna be ok when I see someone upset at what they are doing - gone wrong.

  29. #29
    ■■■■■■ Radio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,574
    Mentioned
    153 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    consentingadult, I would advise you to stop looking for excuses in socionics to explain issues you create for yourself by way of being immature.

  30. #30
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It is amazing how people on this forum, faced with lack of context in other people's posts, create a context themselves, and then draw conclusions from their self-created contexts. Speaking of immaturity...
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  31. #31
    Creepy-pokeball

    Default

    It'd be creative Fe v. creative Fi, assuming for ISFp w/ ENFp. It sounds minor but it is not the same as dominant Fe v. dominant Fi.

  32. #32
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    guys, be nice to CA. he's a very sensitive person.

  33. #33
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by labocat View Post
    guys, be nice to CA. he's a very sensitive person.
    Sukkel.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  34. #34
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    trut.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •