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Thread: I feel sorry for

  1. #1
    Creepy-pokeball

    Default I feel sorry for...

    Sensory types in abstract-preferred conversations. I only have one friend that understand personality theories. He is the one that types as INTj and INTJ. I was the driver last night and he was the last person I was dropping off. We were talking as per usual. We were taking about minimum wage and then I began making questions about another friend. I had made about 10 leaps between wages and then concern for her in conversation. They were VERY remotely tied. He could follow along (luckily). Then I laughed and stated that I felt sorry for sensories and he immediately understood (because he does it, too). I mean... how exactly do they follow along in conversation? Dont they ever want to slap people like us? It must be pretty annoying-- especially during a long conversation with several leaps in thought.

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    heath's Avatar
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    i feel sorry for intuitive types because they'll never know how great riding a bike is, how great music sounds, how good food tastes, etc etc

    seriously, less assuming.
    asd

  3. #3
    Creepy-pokeball

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    It is not an assumption.

    A. We can do those sensory things. The opposisition to what I am talking about inst those things. The opposisiton would be: topicA then B then C then D then E then... Each step has an obvious and close relation.

    B. Ive noted the irritation as common place. Ive tried to curb the mental jumps but if I get too jazzed up, I fark up. It is quite easy to notice, too lol.


    ps. seriously, less bitchy.

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    Are you sure that it is about sensorics? Sensorics can be related to or to , to or to and in all cases it will be differnt reaction depending on what is your subject. Again for irrationals A, B, C, D could sound too boring or for my hubby INTJ nearly everything ralated to is deadly boring but he can be reactive to .
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

  5. #5
    Creepy-pokeball

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    I dont know, Olga. Maybe it is Ne? I just know that I feel bad when I jump too far ahead and the person I should be considerate towards due to conversation has that stark look of either puzzlement or annoyance on their face and Im feeling like, "Ahh, fark! I did it again Back up ya dumbass."

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Default Re: I feel sorry for...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    Sensory types in abstract-preferred conversations. I only have one friend that understand personality theories. He is the one that types as INTj and INTJ. I was the driver last night and he was the last person I was dropping off. We were talking as per usual. We were taking about minimum wage and then I began making questions about another friend. I had made about 10 leaps between wages and then concern for her in conversation. They were VERY remotely tied. He could follow along (luckily). Then I laughed and stated that I felt sorry for sensories and he immediately understood (because he does it, too). I mean... how exactly do they follow along in conversation? Dont they ever want to slap people like us? It must be pretty annoying-- especially during a long conversation with several leaps in thought.
    I've got sensory friends that have no problem with following jumps in conversations. However, some others do have lots of problems with the same issue. I can't say it's unrelated, but I cannot give a definitive answer either.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I don't know about having a problem. I do think that many types deeply dislike conversations with jumps and what they see as wandering off the subject and with "speculations". They even say that to do that is to "lack communication skills", meaning that sequential and factual speech is the only "good communication".

    I have heard that mainly from ESFjs and ISTjs. Not so much from ISFjs and ESTjs. Perhaps it has to do both with and being a Narrator.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  8. #8
    Creepy-pokeball

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    It's not always speculation. Sometimes it is. But sometimes it is several leaps. The basic leap was (and Im not kidding lol): Taco Bell cashier---> commenting on the too mundane of responsiveness of the cashier to tell her that the dude in front of me in the drive-thru picked a crap load of their flowers for his drunk GF at 2AM to my friend--->thinking I'd be mundane if I had a shitty job, too---->remembering a friend with an equally crappy job---> remembering how I tried to tell her to finish her education----> thinking of all the shitty scenarios she is going to face because she screwed herself over--->trying to think of scenarios where she could have better pay to help herself----> wondering when she will change jobs---->remembering I dont get to visit her as much since her jobs hours suck----> and then actually SAYING to my friend that I wished so&so would have listened to me and not got stuck in a shitty scenario. My friend instantly understood the huge 5 second leap lol.


    My mom does this, too. Sometimes I have to remember to back up and ask her WTF the subject was because the transition is entirely unrelated. I can understand the leap about 90% of the time. I also wonder about introverted lag time....like the lack of vocalization between thoughts.

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    heath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    They even say that to do that is to "lack communication skills", meaning that sequential and factual speech is the only "good communication".
    Sequential and factual speech is certainly more effective if you are trying to explain a process or phenomena. I mean, you could even sequence the speculation and "i wonders" into the conversation, preferably at the end when all the ideas and facts have been elaborated. Speculation at the end of factual and sequential speech will help your speculations and 'i wonders' because you will have taken in the entirety of the other person's knowledge. How can someone speculate well if they don't have the base knowledge? In fact, in many situations the speculations you interrupt with will only help you get the information that would have been elaborated had you the patience not to interrupt.
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    It's not always speculation. Sometimes it is. But sometimes it is several leaps. The basic leap was (and Im not kidding lol): Taco Bell cashier---> commenting on the too mundane of responsiveness of the cashier to tell her that the dude in front of me in the drive-thru picked a crap load of their flowers for his drunk GF at 2AM to my friend--->thinking I'd be mundane if I had a shitty job, too---->remembering a friend with an equally crappy job---> remembering how I tried to tell her to finish her education----> thinking of all the shitty scenarios she is going to face because she screwed herself over--->trying to think of scenarios where she could have better pay to help herself----> wondering when she will change jobs---->remembering I dont get to visit her as much since her jobs hours suck----> and then actually SAYING to my friend that I wished so&so would have listened to me and not got stuck in a shitty scenario. My friend instantly understood the huge 5 second leap lol.


    My mom does this, too. Sometimes I have to remember to back up and ask her WTF the subject was because the transition is entirely unrelated. I can understand the leap about 90% of the time. I also wonder about introverted lag time....like the lack of vocalization between thoughts.
    Well, this story is hard to analyze in the sense of sequence and facts because it is about a person. People are impossible to speak about in sequence. I mean, do you know the timeline of your mother's life? I don't think anyone could speak about another person sequentially unless they had that purpose in mind.

    You could argue that sensing types are better at listening and taking things in jump for jump because socionics tells us they pay more attention to the details. Also, it's really an insult to anyone to say they don't have to brain capacity to remember something you told them seconds ago. You have to consider that people getting lost in your moving jumping conversations is not a matter of intuition and sensing as much as it is some people don't actively listen and follow you because they don't care enough about the topic, or you.

    I don't know if I am a sensing or intutive type but I don't find people jumping subject and idea as irritating as people jumping in with extreme emotion or expression of personal values. I've known a number of people like this and i avoid their conversation because the only conversation that they can really provide is the sort where they ramble on about themselves. and goddamn, i tend to retain lots of information, and i HATE CLUTTER.
    asd

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    Default Re: I feel sorry for...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    Sensory types in abstract-preferred conversations. I only have one friend that understand personality theories. He is the one that types as INTj and INTJ. I was the driver last night and he was the last person I was dropping off. We were talking as per usual. We were taking about minimum wage and then I began making questions about another friend. I had made about 10 leaps between wages and then concern for her in conversation. They were VERY remotely tied. He could follow along (luckily). Then I laughed and stated that I felt sorry for sensories and he immediately understood (because he does it, too). I mean... how exactly do they follow along in conversation? Dont they ever want to slap people like us? It must be pretty annoying-- especially during a long conversation with several leaps in thought.
    I wouldn't consider talking about someone's position in life the pinnacle of abstract thought manifesting itself in conversation. In fact, most people, with the help of television, knowledge of socio-economic conditions of people locally and globablly, and a little patience can understand a person's abstract big picture position in life.
    asd

  12. #12
    Creepy-pokeball

    Default Re: I feel sorry for...

    Quote Originally Posted by heath

    I wouldn't consider talking about someone's position in life the pinnacle of abstract thought manifesting itself in conversation. In fact, most people, with the help of television, knowledge of socio-economic conditions of people locally and globablly, and a little patience can understand a person's abstract big picture position in life.

    Of course. That was just one of a zillion examples. I remembered it because I caught myself and thought how completely random it must appear to go from taking the change from a cashier to commenting on a way off subject about a friend that wasnt even there. This is about preference. How patient, over time, can one be without becoming annoyed? That is why I felt sorry. It must be annoying if done too much even if unintentional. I imagine the reverse could be said. I know that when my ISTj friend calls that I will get every single detail from the entire weak in perfect order. That's nice and all but I couldnt remember it even if I tried =p I could literally set the phone down and come back to it if I was inconsiderate enough.

    This entire thought was also brought on by her. She was talking about her math classes and how she loved them because they were "her language." Then she began complaining about her math education classes and how she hated them because they were highly verbal and "made you think." She stated she preferred precise instructions and that was that. She then compared her math education classes to writing and how she hated writing courses because she doesnt have the time to think. I told I her I liked the opposite because math puts me to sleep and writing is fun. She gave a sarcastic, "You would." This also reminded me of a post of Rocky's about math/chemistry (I could seriously go on...I hope you get the point lol)...

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    I think what you are talking about is more related to logic and extraversion or logical extraverts. Or may be not. may be it relates to ratinal and irational producing. I noticed that i confuse people who is logical because of my irrational producing they can't cope with it. But again it must be to do with intertype relationships because my husban coops well INTJ he only ask me not to interrupt until he finish talking which I usually do. Lukily his producing is also irrational.
    Socionics: XNFx
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  14. #14
    Creepy-pokeball

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olga
    I think what you are talking about is more related to logic and extraversion or logical extraverts. Or may be not. may be it relates to ratinal and irational producing. I noticed that i confuse people who is logical because of my irrational producing they can't cope with it. But again it must be to do with intertype relationships because my husban coops well INTJ he only ask me not to interrupt until he finish talking which I usually do. Lukily his producing is also irrational.
    I had to read that about 4 times but I get what youre saying now. I think I notice the variation more often in Si if the jump is too far. The blank and confused stare is evident. Whereas more creative and fun jumps seem to spark the creativity of the 2 Si dominants I know.

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    Olga's Avatar
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    If you do not understand what I mean you can always ask if you understand it right. i did give a few possibilities for the answer which i exactly do not know. I noticed that extraverts or even a few differnt people do not undeerstand where I come from and consider what i am saying as interruption to their flow of discussion. For some people, this is not a probelm they will try to understand and for some it is creating confusion. When I just came to work I took part in group sessions. I noticed that people do not like my contributions because most probably it disrupts their reasoning and they are afraid to that they will not manage with many different perspectives. I would call it - too much direction and control in discussion. If they understand your contribution then fine if not they will shut you up.

    After a while, I noticed that some people avoid having me being involved in discussion. They say that I am not attentive to what people are saying and most possibly feel that I always try to redirect conversation to my subjective perspective. They think -I am a complete failure and do not trust me to run some more serious group sessions except running the Art group and newspaper group when I am on the rota.

    For me personally is not important that people do not trust me: they simply do not understand me. On another hand it is all very amusing for
    me to observe. It looks that the very rational approach which is adopted in my work place is too scared of my irrationality. They do not socionic but they feel me as very different to them, for example too democratic.
    My bosss tries to explain to me that professioinalism is in keeping distance between a Professional and a client. She does not know that I am not an aristocrat. They see me as diffeernt and reject me but not all ofcourse, lots of people like me and especially clients.

    I think your thread is realted to what happens to me.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

  16. #16
    Creepy-pokeball

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    Im sorry

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olga
    They do not socionic but they feel me as very different to them, for example too democratic.
    My bosss tries to explain to me that professioinalism is in keeping distance between a Professional and a client. She does not know that I am not an aristocrat. They see me as diffeernt and reject me but not all ofcourse, lots of people like me and especially clients.

    I think your thread is realted to what happens to me.

    You might point out that the clients are satisfacted and, therefore, for the aims of the firm, it's better to behave like you do.

    OTOH I don't think that what you said it's related to Jade's subject? It looked more like a bit of a rant
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I think they want to pile the info against me and suck me eventually.
    I am too relaxed and see things in pink quite often. They gave me two sheet letters about my performance. I had defended myself against one and did not bother about the second one, thought it can wait. But now the sent to me another letter with the job description together and point out the many points where i do perform very poorly from their persepctive.
    It was actually all general bla-bla-bla without any real evidence or names or real life facts. Some of them ambigious in nature so I could not even guess what are they up to. They said for the meeting I can invite a friend and somebody from trade union. God, I never thought I will ever need this.

    The funniest thing is the two bossess are ESTP and ISFJ. I work with ESTP but of course they are friends. Thanks Jadae and FDG for comments. I have lots of trouble going on at the moment and not just at work but I am fine, serviving well. Life is never in black - it is patchy.
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    i feel sorry for intuitive types because they'll never know how great riding a bike is, how great music sounds, how good food tastes, etc etc

    seriously, less assuming.
    Whats' your type Heath?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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