You can view the page at http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...stance-Gulenko
Article: Stress resistance by Gulenko
You can view the page at http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...stance-Gulenko
Sincerely Yours,
Beyond the clouds. Beyond the sun.
The Rebel without a cause.
i am not 100% sure of this interpretation of type relationship to stress. for example ILE and SEE bring all kinds of added stress to their lives due to their chaotic nature, so how can they be frozen by stress when they seek it out?
I agree with his article from my personal experience, living with an LSE and from personal observations that my dual pair is not comfortable with stress.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Interesting. I'm an IEE and yet I am anything but resistant to stress. I find that stress either discourages me or makes me do things productive I wouldn't do otherwise...
this is just more gulenko bullshit, really.
this is just more SLE supervision over LII bullshit, reallyOriginally Posted by Myst
I would have to stay process/irrational describes me the best overall with some result/rational thrown in there.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
Heh uh
Just noticed SLEs tend to discount Gulenko's work and LSIs don't really get into his articles in the first place. Not sure why he doesn't have any appeal for Beta STs. For IEIs it's a completely different story ...
Stress
Aristocratic Irrationals (Result) > Democratic Rationals (Result) > Democratic Irrationals (Process) > Aristocratic Rationals (Process)
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
Well I didn't get into his articles. I read only bits to make my judgment. I can't/won't read further, it'd just hurt my head, the bullshit. What's that then
Why it doesn't have appeal to me is the issue with Gulenko making up invalid connections between things to build his concepts that are not anchored to reality properly. He must be a very biased person for not noticing the correlations he builds on are so weak and probably entirely non-existent in many cases. Where he tries to deduce things logically it's using assumptions and invalid concepts again so the conclusions are wrong as well. It all ends up in a framework that won't work in reality and is especially useless for making any sort of meaningful prediction.
To summarize, as we agreed on this before, the core issue is that he assumes the socionics IE's explain everything about the brain's workings. I'm exaggerating when I'm saying "everything" but seriously I thought he had formal education in psychiatry and then he does this?
Last edited by Myst; 05-30-2015 at 01:31 AM.
In my observation its fairly accurate.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
Yeah, this is bullshit.
As IEI I'm only mobilized by extremely unexpected changes when there's nothing else happening and I'm bored by the routine or I'm on a boring vacation. After writing that out it seems NTR. When I'm actually working towards something, trying to achieve something, the last thing I want is some unexpected change.
And LSIs are steadfastly stress resistant, so are EIIs.
And lately I've seen about 3 IEEs crash and burn spectacularly when the stress was amped up.
Okay we will have to discuss this morePretty sure "fairly accurate" is far from the truth
That's the issue I take with it too, personally I relate more to what you write here about LSIs than what's stated in the article.
But the bigger issue is that even strictly logically viewing it - giving it the benefit of the doubt that there are too many confounding variables when observing non-scientifically - it isn't a proper framework.
Last edited by Myst; 05-30-2015 at 04:50 AM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifragile#Introduction "The resilient resists shocks and stays the same; the antifragile gets better" reminds me of stress resistance in socionics.
I doubt what they are seeking out is stress. I also doubt that spontaneity causes them stress. Things that cause stress for them will not cause stress for other types.
SEE friend: A job opportunity came up in Washington. I'm moving in 3 months
Me: you have a good job here
SEE friend: I'll be making 10 grand more
Me: but you will be away from people who love you and provide support and your job here is stable. Is this other job stable
SEE friend: they've been around for three years. Besides you have to take risks to see where you can go
Me: *thinking to myself This is ridiculous. Why can't you stay in one place and area for the long haul.
ME: when you come back you can always stay with me
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I believe I find that LIE accumulate stress right before doing activity or making decisions. Overall LIE seem to be low stress type except for this.
I think "stress reaction" is really justplacement (getting things done) and
No I don't think so, LSI and ESIs can get a lot more stressed than IEEs or ILEs. Some N types are just great at intuitively getting out of stressful situations by changing jobs, maneuvering the right people, waiting, etc etcI think "stress reaction" is really just
LSIs are not particularly robust towards unexpected changes, they may prefer not to change strategy when it's actually needed to avoid further stress afterwards. It's not a big fault, but it's indeed there.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I mean how much people can bear, not how good they are at practically dealing with it, sort of like pain tolerance but psychological (psychological and physical pain are basically the same thing apparently).
The main problem with Gulenko is that he doesn't make his research data readily available. So then he makes some very compelling, yet ultra dubious claims like this one from the article: "EIE and LSI, for example, need continuous stimulation of their auditory system." And people are left thinking "wtf?"
The ideas are certainly interesting but there's no way to check if his logic and deductions are sound in the first place with his articles if he doesn't even show what his research methodologies or data are like. This shit is the opposite of scientific the way he's left it in this state. Contrary to the beta ST stereotype I do like most of his articles, but a few like these aren't without problems.
well then they bear a lot but then suddenly break, wheraeas probably result-irrationals change quickly but survive over the long term.
That's how I'd interpret the article.
Result-rationals don't change quickly but also know they can't bear a lot for a long time so they try to slowly change. That's how I observe the effects of stress on myself.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I guess, if you find what he had come up with accurate in that way you can relate to them thoughts and in some ways apply it to how you view the Socionics it is successful. After all he is one of the few people in this world that actually get paid researching Socionics. With Te ignoring and Se PoLR I say he can have some slack there as far everything plays out in the way he predicted. I view his theories something of lenses of how you can view the world with Socionics.
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