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Thread: Temporal orientation

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    Default Temporal orientation

    I've deduced the motivations of immanent people. They vary depending on their level. At the highest level is self-restraint and a sense of minding one's own business, descending to self-enslaving devotion to a person or cause at the lowest level. Understanding the use of high dimensionality functions to process the intensity of the perceptions which drive immanent thought is key to understanding the phenomenon.

    • 1st level immanents are oriented towards the past. They believe heavily in causes which they adopt without really thinking about them. They are deeply devoted and deeply desire love, which they see devotion to their cause -- always oriented to the betterment of loved ones -- as proof of. They are internally dominated by the image of cultural heroes past. Preserving the purity of their commitment to the virtues of these figures is paramount. Life to these persons is a continuous chain of pressures which threatens to overwhelm their ability to remain virtuous. Perspectives on how to sustain virtue as such fall into two main categorical approaches, the non-violent, inclusive approach ("concordancy") and the use of violence and ill-will ("discordancy"). This dichotomy is key in the other levels as well.
    • 2nd level immanents are oriented towards the present. Their chief motive is immediate control. Concordants of this type are concerned with the matter of establishing control over others without violence. Discordants, in contrast, may be driven to terrific violence to put the absolute rule of their favored philosophies in place. 2nd level immanents are action oriented, and give little thought to their future. Their higher level functions are oriented towards the expansion of material control, not unlike a state security apparatus. Their emotions seesaw between extremes of jubilant euphoria and self-satisfaction and deep anxiety.
    • 3rd level immanents are oriented towards the future. To secure the future, they require power. Power is the ability to punish and reward. To these people, power situations are everywhere -- their higher level functions perceive a matrix of power situations feeding into each other. They are short tempered and given to insensitivity. The concordant among them try to understand the peaceful exchange of power, often through carrot and stick approaches. The discordant perspective, in contrast, is given to the use of fear and triangulation to enhance its power position. 3rd level immanents project authority when debating, particularly if they feel comfortable in their power position. Discordants in the set may speak with such self-assurance as to spell-bind admirers and detractors alike, driving them into a frenzy which has the effect of further elevating their stature. The great demagogues belong to this set.
    • 4th level immanents, like the non-immanent, are oriented to the hereafter. They stand apart from the hostility of the lower levels. Nowhere more evident is the peace of this group than in the comradery of the elderly, who are like to defend their peers against the recriminations of the young even across political lines. This group is the most cohesive of the castes, ever debating and having amongst itself a shared willingness to abide by the consensus of the group (although they may seek to obscure this agreement in public, to obtain the favor of the lower casts). The concordant in this group take the role of therapists, counseling their peers to remain strong in spite of disappointments inflicted by the lower casts, where the discordants play the role of someday dictators, aspiring to absolute rule but waiting for circumstances to explicitly favor them. They believe in love and try hard to prove to their peers that they are not want for control, or power, apart from what their peers want for them. They pride themselves in their ability to rise above petty rivalries and look to a common future that is better for all. They disdain power and respect individual choice and freedom. Where denizens of the lower casts may on occasion look to the hereafter as an escape from their self-blighted existences, persons at the fourth level imagine the hereafter as exactly that: a place where their troubled brethren feel free at last to be like them. Achievement of this utopia on earth is a key motivation for them, and is their primary point of disagreement. It is not for themselves that they seek this relief, as they lack no shortage in self-faith, but for the lower casts. This grandiose goal inspires all manner of sweeping ideologies, the contest of which is the catalyst for human history. The bickering is constant, each seeing the flaws in the others' ever imperfect ideologies, the falsehoods and delusions consorting with the truth as befits the ego of the creator, the lower casts' imperfect adjustments acting as the writ of favor amongst them.

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    A profile of immanence, the Assad family.



    Basil Assad is an exemplar of the 2nd level. He was the heir apparent to the Syrian presidency and the head of the internal security force when he died in a high-speed car accident. Apparently the sense of total control he felt as master of Syria carried over into material delusions, such that he believed he had effective control over reality itself (a "superman" complex).


    Bashar al Assad is an exemplar of the 3rd level. He has the presence and wiles of a demagogue, as fervent as Hitler but seemingly more rational. His choice to use force against the Arab Spring protestors represents a deep paranoia and concern that the power structures he feels himself to be abreast of could yet turn on him if he earns their disfavor. He is currently in the midst of power games between the NATO powers and the SCO.


    Hafez Assad, the patriarch of the Assad family, is an exemplar of the 4th level. Assad successfully persuaded his countrymen that geopolitical and internal conditions necessitated his rise to absolute power as head of an authoritarian socialist state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Assad successfully persuaded his countrymen that geopolitical and internal conditions necessitated his rise to absolute power as head of an authoritarian socialist state.
    This is true if that sweet-talking is assumed to include decapitating the previous government via coup, installing cronies in key civil and military positions, assassinating rivals to power, using secret police and internal terrorism to quell dissent, and establishing a cult of personality promulgated by state apparatus. Also, there's a spot of post hoc ergo propter hoc on your shirt.

    Beyond that, however, this temporal orientation jazz is one of your more interesting ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekpyrosos View Post
    This is true if that sweet-talking is assumed to include decapitating the previous government via coup, installing cronies in key civil and military positions, assassinating rivals to power, using secret police and internal terrorism to quell dissent, and establishing a cult of personality promulgated by state apparatus.
    He had nothing to do with that. He gave the orders, but the orders were prepared for him. He just signed the paper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    He had nothing to do with that. He gave the orders, but the orders were prepared for him. He just signed the paper.
    Reptiloids?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekpyrosos View Post
    Reptiloids?
    More like mafia godfathers. The godfather has a vision for the family. He's rationalized it and determined that its fulfillment is essential to the greater good of all. Those who oppose the family should be shown mercy, granted, but it is not for him to decide. He will let the "family" fend for itself.

    Bashar's problem is that he got himself right into the thick of it. Because he's been directly associated with the brutality, he's lost his image as a statesman. He thinks he's fighting a monster, but the real monster is his own insecurity.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 02-10-2012 at 03:02 PM.

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    Hmm Tcaud I like this. I am definitely a 1st level immanent.

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    I once read a children's book about life in Syria. One of the more interesting characters was an old man who had seen many changes of power in his lifetime. When the first coup came, he went out to the streets to celebrate. When the second coup happened, he merely applauded. Since the third, he could only shake his head.

    In my view, Hafez Assad is no different from any of the other socialist dictators, most of whom have managed to keep their spirits high throughout their rule. Chavez is only the latest of these. These strongmen would never obtain power if not for the excesses of corporate elites, which are buttressed by Western corporate interests. They become as bad as the corporate elites over many years, particularly once they hand power over to their children, who have grown up behind closed walls under heavy protection, completely desensitized to the suffering of the people.

    There was a passage in FF7 which summarizes the effect rather well: "Dad ruled the world with money, and that worked for him. But, I do things differently. I'll rule the world with fear... it's too much to do it like my old man."

    As for the survival of the 4th level patriarchs... they know how to keep up appearances. They rule with an iron fist but maintain good relations with democratic countries. Americans who frequented Egypt were shocked to see how discontented the people were last winter, because Mubarak camouflaged his operation very effectively.

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    I once read a children's book about life in Syria. One of the more interesting characters was an old man who had seen many changes of power in his lifetime. When the first coup came, he went out to the streets to celebrate. When the second coup happened, he merely applauded. Since the third, he could only shake his head.

    In my view, Hafez Assad is no different from any of the other socialist dictators, most of whom have managed to keep their spirits high throughout their rule. Chavez is only the latest of these. These strongmen would never obtain power if not for the excesses of corporate elites, which are buttressed by Western corporate interests. They become as bad as the corporate elites over many years, particularly once they hand power over to their children, who have grown up behind closed walls under heavy protection, completely desensitized to the suffering of the people.

    There was a passage in FF7 which summarizes the effect rather well: "Dad ruled the world with money, and that worked for him. But, I do things differently. I'll rule the world with fear... it's too much to do it like my old man."

    As for the survival of the 4th level patriarchs... they know how to keep up appearances. They rule with an iron fist but maintain good relations with democratic countries. Americans who frequented Egypt were shocked to see how discontented the people were last winter, because Mubarak camouflaged his operation very effectively.

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    The underlying philosophy of hereafter oriented people is empowerment. Future oriented people are focused on preventing others from having power. Hereafter oriented people are focused on the process of power transference.

    The lower levels are unable to process the thinking of the higher levels
    • past oriented people cannot understand the initiative to control. This feeds their zealotry, because commitment to social norms seems the only way to truth. (example: becoming a suicide bomber to fulfill the obligation to jihad).
    • present oriented people cannot understand power. This feeds their appetite for control. (example: the indifference to court politics expressed by Louis XVI of France and Charles I of England, both of whom ended up beheaded).
    • future oriented people cannot understand the determination to diminish personal power.


    And past that, I think that's all that model A permits the discussion of. Simply put, you can't describe power and control with eight functions. You need sixteen.

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