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Thread: Introverts: approaching a Dual

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    Default Introverts: approaching a Dual

    When you find yourself both incredibly intrigued by them and yet also very intimidated, how do you actually approach your Dual without over thinking it and then talking yourself out of it?

    I ask Introverts this question because I've read and seen people talk about how the Introverts usually experience this feeling ^^ around their Duals (believing they will never be good enough) thus may give up and simply not even attempt a conversation. Plus, it may be difficult to find an interest common to both of you that one can actually discuss at length.


    1. Did you have to pursue your extroverted dual (friend or otherwise), or did they seek you out?

    2. Any advice or positive experiences with approaching them?

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    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Hmm. You ever wonder if your real issue is being scared of people in general ... and this romance/dual thing is just another one of your coping mechanisms instead of getting to the root core pain of the issue?

    Being incredibly intrigued by somebody and also scared of them doesn't really sound like a healthy relationship. It sounds like a narcissist abusing somebody who is overly empathetic.

    To me, a relationship is 50/50. They are just as empathetic as me, and vice-versa. If I'm being distant, so are they. If he is being close and sharing emotions, so am I. If he goes away when I share feelings, that's a huge red signal to RUN RUN RUN run far away in the other direction! This person does not have my best interests at heart!

    It sucks having a big heart sometimes. It sucks to actually care. It sucks to feel sorry for the person being picked on when everybody else is condescendingly and arrogantly telling them they just need to man up. It's like in a way they are secretly rooting for the offender and sometimes you feel like the only good person in the room. And that makes you lonely, like if you spoke what you really cared about it would somehow end up like it's all your fault. I don't see how romantic relationships solve all these dilemmas. My dad was in a very healthy, loving relationship and he still died too young. =/

    as nice as love is, I'd rather see people 'personally grow' I think. Love wasn't enough to save so many people. There just has to be more than love! *cries out dramatically in the heavens*

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    Umm. SLEs generally seek me out. Usually they'll start talking to me, and as we talk more, they seem to find me intriguing, mainly because of my "weird" sense of humour.

    I feel awkward approaching anyone, so I guess the best form of action (for me, perhaps for you too if you're also somewhat awkward) is just to hang around them a lot so they have more opportunities to approach you. Also try to relax, don't stick with the polite responses but go for the rude/inappropriate/weird answers you're actually thinking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octo View Post
    Umm. SLEs generally seek me out. Usually they'll start talking to me, and as we talk more, they seem to find me intriguing, mainly because of my "weird" sense of humour.

    I feel awkward approaching anyone, so I guess the best form of action (for me, perhaps for you too if you're also somewhat awkward) is just to hang around them a lot so they have more opportunities to approach you. Also try to relax, don't stick with the polite responses but go for the rude/inappropriate/weird answers you're actually thinking.
    exactly.

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    SLE's love it when IEI's approach them, they think it's cute and it surprises them. It's a good idea to get your nerves somewhat under control beforehand, (if thats possible)... and look 4 casual conversation oportunites at first.

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    Last edited by lemontrees; 01-24-2015 at 12:32 AM.

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    It's funny how introverts are said to consider themselves "unworthy" of their dual counterparts. I think it comes from hyper self-awareness which can cause low self-esteem. The whole fear of approaching the "extrovert" could just be fear of making a mistake.

    Seriously, more and more I believe that you should do whatever you want, and learn from the mistake if there was one, instead of trying to analyze the best choice of action without any experimentation=success/failure.

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    There are times when I still feel inferior to LIEs...I feel like sometimes they can run circles around what I'm saying because they so easily "get" things and are able to pick apart what I'm saying in a condescending way... because sometimes I just "FEEL" like saying something...and they'll understand it, but think it's dumb :/. criiickey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Your duals are assholes!
    agreed.

    Apparently I like assholes.

    Annnnd, what's worse... occasionally I wonder what in the hell I bring to the table. Many of them are scarily intelligent. lil demented. kinda jaded. and a lot of fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    agreed.

    Annnnd, what's worse... occasionally I wonder what in the hell I bring to the table. Many of them are scarily intelligent. lil demented. kinda jaded. and a lot of fun.
    Maybe this should be another thread, but... YES!

    I just had a conversation with mine the other night about what each person brings to the relationship. TeSi things are so tangible and clearly "useful" to LSEs. There are many occasions when it's not just me wondering what I bring to the table, lol. He wonders too! "Hm... I'm the one who's managing the finances and being the provider; I'm the one carrying the 'weight' in the relationship. What would it be like if I was with someone just like me?"

    I'm not sure if this phenomenon has to do with introvert-extrovert interaction (introvert feels not good enough) or Te-Fi interaction (Te is concrete and qualitative, Fi is subtle) or what. It's not that he's unappreciative or narcissistic--he KNOWS that I give a lot. He just can't see it and measure it and tally it up like he can with his contributions. I actually wrote an article that is semi-related to this about my observations of STs falling into the trap of being occasionally blind to the benefit of NFs.
    EII/INFj

    OVE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diaphanous View Post
    Maybe this should be another thread, but... YES!

    I just had a conversation with mine the other night about what each person brings to the relationship. TeSi things are so tangible and clearly "useful" to LSEs. There are many occasions when it's not just me wondering what I bring to the table, lol. He wonders too! "Hm... I'm the one who's managing the finances and being the provider; I'm the one carrying the 'weight' in the relationship. What would it be like if I was with someone just like me?"
    It might be Te leading combined with Ni PoLR. I had an LSE friend who would constantly question what her IEE bf was bringing to the table, even though it was clear to me that she valued him a lot. She had trouble with it b/c it was neither physical nor quantifiable. I don't know if that's true of all LSE's, but it could be a (cute?) vulnerability of their's!
    Last edited by lemontrees; 02-08-2012 at 04:49 AM. Reason: argh spelling error

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clumsy View Post
    1. Did you have to pursue your extroverted dual (friend or otherwise), or did they seek you out?
    He approaches me. I don't do approaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clumsy View Post
    2. Any advice or positive experiences with approaching them?
    Just be yourself and if you're online dating, post some real picture of you and the extravert, being an extravert will approach you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diaphanous View Post
    Maybe this should be another thread, but... YES!

    I just had a conversation with mine the other night about what each person brings to the relationship. TeSi things are so tangible and clearly "useful" to LSEs. There are many occasions when it's not just me wondering what I bring to the table, lol. He wonders too! "Hm... I'm the one who's managing the finances and being the provider; I'm the one carrying the 'weight' in the relationship. What would it be like if I was with someone just like me?"

    I'm not sure if this phenomenon has to do with introvert-extrovert interaction (introvert feels not good enough) or Te-Fi interaction (Te is concrete and qualitative, Fi is subtle) or what. It's not that he's unappreciative or narcissistic--he KNOWS that I give a lot. He just can't see it and measure it and tally it up like he can with his contributions. I actually wrote an article that is semi-related to this about my observations of STs falling into the trap of being occasionally blind to the benefit of NFs.
    my case is the opposite; I contribute concretely, financially, and he contributes by being my voice, he speaks for me when I find it difficult to convey my thoughts because I get too emotional and that's all the help I'll ever need from a man; he drives, helps me clean, cook, wash the dishes when I'm tired, helps us make entertainment plans. If you're duals, then everything should work out well...but....

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    Just make sure you look really hot. You wont even have to make the effort in the approach.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clumsy View Post
    When you find yourself both incredibly intrigued by them and yet also very intimidated, how do you actually approach your Dual without over thinking it and then talking yourself out of it?

    I ask Introverts this question because I've read and seen people talk about how the Introverts usually experience this feeling ^^ around their Duals (believing they will never be good enough) thus may give up and simply not even attempt a conversation. Plus, it may be difficult to find an interest common to both of you that one can actually discuss at length.


    1. Did you have to pursue your extroverted dual (friend or otherwise), or did they seek you out?

    2. Any advice or positive experiences with approaching them?
    It might be just me but, like I don't think gammas have this problem. actually i've seen LIEs be too unsure of themselves to approach ESIs. maybe its the se ego thing I dunno.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carrina View Post
    It might be just me but, like I don't think gammas have this problem. actually i've seen LIEs be too unsure of themselves to approach ESIs. maybe its the se ego thing I dunno.
    Do those LIE's appear unsure of themselves, or do they think that you might not live in the same world as they do, and so do not approach? We LIE's can be amazingly dense when it comes to interpersonal relations, ignoring comfort and believing instead in social “norms”.
    I know several LIE's. Most have been divorced and remarried, and only one female might be dualized. The rest are soldiering on in relationships that are not that close.
    I had one LIE tell me, when he heard I was divorced and was looking again, that I should marry for intelligence, because once you tell each other all the stories, there is nothing to talk about. His second wife is an INTP, and they look like business partners together, not man and wife. He doesn't believe in Socionics, or in Psychology at all, for that matter.


    Without ever experiencing Duality as a kid, I had no idea how great it is, and no context to place it in when I first experienced it. It should be easy to understand why I was not looking for it and would ignore my duals. Even when I first discovered the concept of Duality, I still had serious doubts about it. On-line pictures of my duals looked too different from the people I normally spend time with. I didn't realize that duality only becomes obvious when people are forced to interact with their dual for several hours.


    This might not be in the right post because the OP asked how introverts approach their duals, but I haven't yet figured out how to access a more appropriate post.
    I can tell you how ESI's initially have appeared to me, an LIE. I only know of four, so this should be brief.
    The first was a male, and he approached me because I gave a lecture on a topic we were both interested in. I thought he was kind of weird and goofy looking, but sensible and serious at the same time. I would ordinarily never have gone out of my way to talk to him, but with similar interests, we spent some time together and quickly became great friends. As I got to know him better and how he was perceived by others, I thought that everyone underestimated how great he was. He didn't give the impression of being very smart, but he worked hard and got a Ph.D without any trouble. He was always undervaluing himself.
    The second was a female, and I found her by seeing her art on display, liking it, and tracking her down. She also plays sports, and when we met for coffee to discuss me buying it, she came dressed in a colorful thin top and frayed cutoffs, and I thought she looked like a female basketball player. I thought we had nothing in common and I would never have approached her if I hadn't been trying to buy her art, but after talking for a few hours, I found that I not only got along with her, I was trying to figure out how to meet her again, and again after that. I mean, I got really calm and happy around her.
    The third works in a restaurant where I eat lunch sometimes, and I talked to her weekly for 3-4 years before “seeing” her as separate from the wallpaper. Then she said something Fi to me, and I suddenly totally noticed her.
    The fourth is again a male I met through work. He also looks weird and goofy, is slender and looks like he would have a hard time in a light breeze, but then he puts on his motorcycle helmet and zooms off on his Ninja Kawasaki bike (Se, do you think?). Again, he has a Ph.D. and is actually sensible and serious and super good at his job.


    I can explain why I like my duals, and what they bring to the table. They complete me. I totally know that there are many things that I do that tend to screw up my life, and the ESI's have excellent advice on this and deliver it in a way that I, an enneagram 8, can accept. Plus, the females look very good. Not as elegant and refined as IEI's, or as sexy as I find the ISTP's and INTP's, but in a way that says “attach”. In return, I think I give them the assurance, in some way or another, of a safe and secure future.


    So, to answer the OP's questions (for ESI-LIE pairs, at least), it doesn't matter which one of you approaches the other. Advice for a positive experience is to make sure to spend some time with them while being yourself. That is all you will need to do*, assuming that the LIE isn't caught up in some really stupid, wrong, and stereotypical ideas of the kind of person they “should” hang out with, because honestly, your Dual looks really different from you. And if LIE's are young, they probably do have these prejudices. If that is the case, you wouldn't want them anyway. We LIE's have to fail a few times before we figure it out.


    *From my limited personal experience and from what I've read about ESI-LIE pairs, they will meet, the LIE will “notice” the ESI because of the things the ESI does and because he's figured out how he's going to pay for their kid's education and will make a vague suggestion, the ESI will let him know that she is definitely open to the suggestion, and the LIE will make a definite proposal for action.

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    She approached me.

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    I've never thought of ESI's as goofy looking lol.

    It's sort of cute to see what duals think of each other.

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    I guess introverts would do well to learn to speak their mind. I learned how to advertise myself wrll and to convey what I want and am looking for clearly. That helped in my case. Most other EII that I've seen look avoidant shy, walk away easily, look down or away easily, don't smile easily and come off as cold and unapproachable in public. Even I do but my dual cousin and bf always reminde me to smile, look nice, look presentable in public, be happy and not to over emphasis sad situations which I tend to do easily as deep and troubling issues weigh heavily on my mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    I've never thought of ESI's as goofy looking lol.

    It's sort of cute to see what duals think of each other.
    not at all...maybe only in bursts and among very familiar ppl ... kinda at home on a Sunday morning ... in any case not in public spaces (at events). Mby he confuses ESIs with IEEs...

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    Anyway the only ENTj I really got to know (except family) ... I approached him and asked about a bureaucratic problem. Afterwards we got to go out and talk more personally and when I realized he was mbti ENTJ (and asked him about it), I told him my father's the same type. Ever since he didn't stop thinking I was actually insinuating he's kinda too old for me.
    It's understood I'd never talk Socionics mumbo jumbo with anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    I've never thought of ESI's as goofy looking lol.

    It's sort of cute to see what duals think of each other.
    Well, OK, maybe not goofy. There I go again, with my mouth connected straight to my brain and no filters in between. Goofy is not exactly the look that these two guys had. It was really more about them smiling and being agreeable when there's nothing to be agreeable about. As I got to know them better, this stopped entirely, leaving only a very dry and funny sense of humor that looped around and hit you on the side of the head. But at first, they definitely smiled too much. I think it might have been some kind of defense mechanism for dealing with strangers and for not being comfortable with the idea of automatically offending everyone, as we LIE's are. And we usually do offend, because we say exactly what we think, whether we are thinking correctly or not. Plus, I only know three males. I thought two, but I have since remembered a third, but he also smiles way more than I would.
    The females have a serious look to them. They smile appropriately, but warily. They really do look like they're looking to eliminate anything that might cause them problems in the future. I'm also beginning to recognize them by the way they get pissed off when I say something that is even very, very slightly critical. Not of them, but of something in the environment. They get pissed off, but don't say anything, but I can tell they're pissed off, and it takes some doing to get them to stop being pissed off. Assholeism just bounces off them without effect. Teasing, kidding around with them, they seem to like. But criticism seems to be a no-fly zone. Actually, I don't see anything about ESI's to criticize, but I've gotten into trouble by saying stuff that could be interpreted, but was not meant, as criticism. Once, when I said a drink they made was OK (just OK?), and once when I said a friend of theirs was not, in my opinion, a very good artist. That did not go over well. This may not be universal because my sample size is still small.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    Anyway the only ENTj I really got to know (except family) ... I approached him and asked about a bureaucratic problem. Afterwards we got to go out and talk more personally and when I realized he was mbti ENTJ (and asked him about it), I told him my father's the same type. Ever since he didn't stop thinking I was actually insinuating he's kinda too old for me.
    It's understood I'd never talk Socionics mumbo jumbo with anyone.
    Maybe he thinks he's too old for you.
    ENTJ's tend to think things through very carefully and thoroughly. Since you are an ESI, he probably couldn't help but like you. He probably doesn't understand why he likes you, and doesn't entirely trust his feelings (I mean, what ENTJ makes decisions based on his feelings? None.) or trust your Socionics explanation. The fact that your father and he are the same type would not be a problem and can be ignored. My ex-wife told me I was just like her father, and that didn't bother me, so it probably wouldn't bother him.
    When I meet a woman I like, I look for red flags. If I don't see any, I go further and further, considering possibilities and alternatives until I either do hit a red flag, or reach a point where I don't have enough information to proceed at this time, or do have enough information to proceed.
    He's clearly trying to keep some distance from you for some reason (see preceding sentence), and that is easier for him to do if he claims that you first said he is too old for you. It keeps things light, it doesn't shut down possibilities, doesn't make promises.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 05-10-2015 at 03:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Maybe he thinks he's too old for you.
    ENTJ's tend to think things through very carefully and thoroughly. Since you are an ESI, he probably couldn't help but like you. The fact that your father and he are the same type would not be a problem and can be ignored. My ex-wife told me I was just like her father, and that didn't bother me, so it probably wouldn't bother him. When I meet a woman I like, I look for red flags. If I don't see any, I go further and further, considering possibilities and alternatives until I either do hit a red flag, or reach a point where I don't have enough information to proceed at this time, or do have enough information to proceed.
    He's clearly trying to keep some distance from you for some reason (see preceding sentence), and that is easier for him to do if he claims that you first said he is too old for you. It keeps things light, it doesn't shut down possibilities, doesn't make promises.
    Well he was about 14 years older than me ...I took it as a need for reassurance. Anyway we did date a bit ...but we didn't click too much beyond mutual sympathy. You know that cliche ... "not my type" ...ironic, I know.
    However he was pretty successful and interesting as a person. I admired his very active lifestyle (and he was about 45). Always travelling around, ready to have fun in clubs and stuff.

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    Toward the end of my 20's I met a female SLE, who used to come into my shop- I remember how she never changed her hair,

    I thought she seemed rather severe, even intimidating

    We were then reintroduced when I was dating one of her friends, an LIE for about 3 years, friends: laughing drinking on occasion, and then the moments; which I'll touch on

    Always always, in my heart's secret chamber this undeniable connection, and I secretly loved her but could never admit this, until time past. Socionics Intertype-relations helped me discover this truth

    Love wasn't the only thing going on, this was dualizing

    Sometimes SLE would get intoxicated, and she would touch me/bump into; or leg/foot under the table and make extravagant claims that they were accident, but they would be thrilling! I remember one time, she sat down next to me

    and she said 'Hi' like, greeting me with such tone of fondness, breathtaking. She would carry herself like in such a way, and smile, the moment without time, forever, she takes off her coat, hot in summer, suspended she sweat so

    incredibly. SLE was funny and loved crude sexual remarks, she astonished me, how she would respond to my 'humor defense' as I call it, or when it was time to remove that and reveal my deeper self aspect, she remained unfazed,

    At a movie LIE couldn't make, SLE and potentially ENFj friend sat either side of me SLE shared her popcorn, our hands touched timeless, again and again; I leaned my head over to her to whisper quiet jokes

    She would reciprocate this, and I could revel in her hair as it would brush my face all the time, having terrible ethical quandary within the core of my being as you can see.

    Learning of the concept of duality helped me so much in this case; we're still friends by the way-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
    Toward the end of my 20's I met a female SLE, who used to come into my shop- I remember how she never changed her hair,

    I thought she seemed rather severe, even intimidating

    We were then reintroduced when I was dating one of her friends, an LIE for about 3 years, friends: laughing drinking on occasion, and then the moments; which I'll touch on

    Always always, in my heart's secret chamber this undeniable connection, and I secretly loved her but could never admit this, until time past. Socionics Intertype-relations helped me discover this truth

    Love wasn't the only thing going on, this was dualizing

    Sometimes SLE would get intoxicated, and she would touch me/bump into; or leg/foot under the table and make extravagant claims that they were accident, but they would be thrilling! I remember one time, she sat down next to me

    and she said 'Hi' like, greeting me with such tone of fondness, breathtaking. She would carry herself like in such a way, and smile, the moment without time, forever, she takes off her coat, hot in summer, suspended she sweat so

    incredibly. SLE was funny and loved crude sexual remarks, she astonished me, how she would respond to my 'humor defense' as I call it, or when it was time to remove that and reveal my deeper self aspect, she remained unfazed,

    At a movie LIE couldn't make, SLE and potentially ENFj friend sat either side of me SLE shared her popcorn, our hands touched timeless, again and again; I leaned my head over to her to whisper quiet jokes

    She would reciprocate this, and I could revel in her hair as it would brush my face all the time, having terrible ethical quandary within the core of my being as you can see.

    Learning of the concept of duality helped me so much in this case; we're still friends by the way-



    oh if that kinda attraction is a symptom of duality ... I sorta dualized with several types in my life.


    But wtf dude, are you just describing online how you were quasi-cheating on your 3-year gf in full literary verve as if nothing.

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    Well, in hindsight it may be looked at that way, quasi-cheating, but I was never fully willing to admit it to myself or another person. We were all friends, and both in separate relationships-

    I also would add it was the ease, speed, fluency and safety to be yourself, that housed these exchanges

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    Adam Strange;1087435]Do those LIE's appear unsure of themselves, or do they think that you might not live in the same world as they do, and so do not approach?
    I don't live in the world of the LIE, so i don't know, I also don't think its relevant.
    We LIE's can be amazingly dense when it comes to interpersonal relations, ignoring comfort and believing instead in social “norms”.
    this seems to be conceptually incomplete
    I know several LIE's. Most have been divorced and remarried, and only one female might be dualized.
    being single is a thing many gammas do, for good reasons as well as pathetic ones
    The rest are soldiering on in relationships that are not that close
    LIE fi is problematic
    I had one LIE tell me, when he heard I was divorced and was looking again, that I should marry for intelligence,
    i agree with him
    because once you tell each other all the stories, there is nothing to talk about.
    when you're compatible you talk abou tyour life, for gamma, this should be enough.
    His second wife is an INTP, and they look like business partners together, not man and wife.
    awkward, but better than devorce
    He doesn't believe in Socionics, or in Psychology at all, for that matter.
    good for him
    Without ever experiencing Duality as a kid, I had no idea how great it is,
    when a serious attempt is made, its liken to heaven
    and no context to place it in when I first experienced it.
    i have this issue with gammas in general
    It should be easy to understand why I was not looking for it and would ignore my duals.
    we all start out that way
    Even when I first discovered the concept of Duality, I still had serious doubts about it.
    only a fool would just jump right in
    On-line pictures of my duals looked too different from the people I normally spend time with
    LIEs are hot to me, only after they speak
    I didn't realize that duality only becomes obvious when people are forced to interact with their dual for several hours.
    agree. instant best friends when done right.

    This might not be in the right post because the OP asked how introverts approach their duals, but I haven't yet figured out how to access a more appropriate post.
    I can tell you how ESI's initially have appeared to me, an LIE.
    had this issue until recently. thinking about my past boyfriends reminded me that the ones who i never forgot about, love still (without wanting romantic relations with them) that i realized are LIEs, its quite easy after realizing their mannerisms etc
    I only know of four, so this should be brief.

    The first was a male, and he approached me because I gave a lecture on a topic we were both interested in. I thought he was kind of weird and goofy looking, but sensible and serious at the same time. I would ordinarily never have gone out of my way to talk to him,
    you'll get that in less developed individuals
    ;
    but with similar interests, we spent some time together and quickly became great friends.
    duals are the *best* best friends
    As I got to know him better and how he was perceived by others, I thought that everyone underestimated how great he was.
    thats how i feel about LIEs, although usually people clsoe to them usually value them more then they know. if they do know it, they also know how lucky they are (the LIE)
    He didn't give the impression of being very smart, but he worked hard and got a Ph.D without any trouble. He was always undervaluing himself.
    better to acknowledge downfalls then to forget yourself
    The second was a female, and I found her by seeing her art on display, liking it, and tracking her down
    lol. uh okay. (*cough, staker )
    . She also plays sports, and when we met for coffee to discuss me buying it,
    I absolutely hate when people buy my stuff
    she came dressed in a colorful thin top and frayed cutoffs, and I thought she looked like a female basketball player. I thought we had nothing in common and I would never have approached her if I hadn't been trying to buy her art, but after talking for a few hours, I found that I not only got along with her, I was trying to figure out how to meet her again, and again after that. I mean, I got really calm and happy around her.
    The third works in a restaurant where I eat lunch sometimes, and I talked to her weekly for 3-4 years before “seeing” her as separate from the wallpaper. Then she said something Fi to me, and I suddenly totally noticed her
    awww *gushy feelings
    The fourth is again a male I met through work. He also looks weird and goofy, is slender and looks like he would have a hard time in a light breeze,
    thats awkward lul
    but then he puts on his motorcycle helmet and zooms off on his Ninja Kawasaki bike (Se, do you think?)
    we do.
    Again, he has a Ph.D. and is actually sensible and serious and super good at his job.


    I can explain why I like my duals, and what they bring to the table. They complete me.
    my thoughts exactly
    I totally know that there are many things that I do that tend to screw up my life, and the ESI's have excellent advice on this and deliver it in a way that I, an enneagram 8, can accept. Plus, the females look very good. Not as elegant and refined as IEI's, or as sexy as I find the ISTP's and INTP's, but in a way that says “attach”. In return, I think I give them the assurance, in some way or another, of a safe and secure future.


    So, to answer the OP's questions (for ESI-LIE pairs, at least), it doesn't matter which one of you approaches the other.
    there is an extratim here and an se ego. it could go either way. for gamma, its supposed to be an accident. we have a very short courtship period. better safe then sorry
    Advice for a positive experience is to make sure to spend some time with them while being yourself.
    the hardest part. once you break that barrier though, its amazing.
    That is all you will need to do*, assuming that the LIE isn't caught up in some really stupid, wrong, and stereotypical ideas of the kind of person they “should” hang out with, because honestly, your Dual looks really different from you.
    maturity is the best ingredient for duality
    And if LIE's are young, they probably do have these prejudices. If that is the case, you wouldn't want them anyway.
    "wouldn't want them anyway" exactly
    We LIE's have to fail a few times before we figure it out.
    1D fi to be sure

    *From my limited personal experience and from what I've read about ESI-LIE pairs, they will meet, the LIE will “notice” the ESI because of the things the ESI does and because he's figured out how he's going to pay for their kid's education and will make a vague suggestion, the ESI will let him know that she is definitely open to the suggestion, and the LIE will make a definite proposal for action.
    this hypothesis is acceptable imo

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    Duality never really worked out for me. Even as friends. Always eventually goes awry. I approached the extroverts.

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