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Thread: ISFp-ENTp relations: getting to know each other (SEI thoughts CORDIALLY received!)

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    Default ISFp-ENTp relations: getting to know each other (SEI thoughts CORDIALLY received!)

    [EDIT1: Please excuse my grammar mistakes. Engrish is not my first ranguage]
    [EDIT2: Corrected the last question]

    OK, so I'm quite certain that I have found my first SEI after 25years of mostly unconscious searching. I will not fuck this up.

    Problem is, she has (naturally) managed to put herself in a situation where her emotions are braking my quest for progress.

    When we meet, we hit it of immediately. This has happened three times. Problem is, she's extremely hesistant to getting to know me deeper. She attributes this to her perception that she 'also wants to, but is confused and need to deal with her emotions first'. I apply these 'emotions' specifically to the accounts of a) irrational loyality and b) resistance to change - i.e. I know that she's had some relationships which were no good for her and which she find difficult to leave, and she selects these past experiences as ingredients when cooking up her 'worst case scenario' which would be: I fuck her over just like everyone else.

    My own rational take on this is that she need to actually interact with me instead of running around in circles. More to the point, I need to convince her that I am safe and that she must not fear me. I see continual interaction as the only tool which can eliminate her fear, since it is only through interaction she can grow her perceptual intake and thus actually make some positive cognitive/behavioral changes. She tries so hard to rationalize, but of course does this very poorly. I DONT want her to make a 'rational' decision when she is the one being 'rational'.

    Now, at first I was accepting of all of this. After she said she needed 'more time' the first time, my reply was basically "I perceive you to be wise and I am sure you'll make the right decision. Good luck ".

    Three months later without interaction, and I met her out drinking. Both are somewhat drunk. We look deeply at each other and she immediately starts doing what she has done every single time I have met her; she starts telling me Im beautifull and we exchange some touching which had quite deep emotional effects.

    After this happens, I notice that she had a guy sitting next to her (I opposing her). He looked really weirded out when we 'greeted' each other, and reacted with petting and caressing her quite demonstratively. I looked at her and gave her my attempt of a "I-know-I-can-do-better-than-that-guy-and-so-do-you"-smile, and she smiled back in a eeriely approving way. However, she (naturally) needed to 'pet the guy back'!

    This was deeply uncomfortable for me. I'm perfectly fine with the fact that she flirts with other dudes as a way of coping with some of her shit (I know that it won't solve her issues long-term though). What I hated was her doing this IN FRONT OF ME. That's a big fucking lack of respect in my book, which I have extremely hard to accept. In fact, I would cut it of instantly if I didn't think she was my dual.

    So I left with some friends (amongst others one of her close female friends (MB ENFP) which also happen to be my flatmate). We leave my supposed dual with that dude as well as her other friend and some other dude. My ENFP friends calls my dual SEI after we've left and ask her if she wants to join us, and get's the reply "If it's fun". So, I interpret her action as a direct indication that she's not interested. Although I suspect that an alternative is that she simply couldn't leave that first dude because that would make him 'feel bad'.

    This basically prompted me to send the following message as soon as I got home: "Im sorry (name), but I see/saw so much potential in you. I understand that you have issues, but I need to know if you want to get to know me?"

    Unsurprisingly, she has not answered in two days. Instinctively this is also a big turn-off for me, but seeing her as a SEI, I suddenly become accepting.

    Now I am completely drowning in multiple theories of how this may play out, and this uncertainty is sooo emotionally taxing on me. Even if I'm somewhat certain that everything will fix itself, I don't feel that I want to wait the amount of time which she 'feels' that she need to have. I need to close the gap between current and desired reality as quickly as possible here.

    Any feedback on this?
    Does my analysis seem accurate?
    What are peoples ideas on her behavior - and of course im specifically interested in other SEI's ideas here.
    Last edited by qma; 01-24-2012 at 07:33 PM.

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    Forget it for now, she's obviously not interested. Ask yourself why you'd want to put up with disrespect from anyone, even your dual.

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    Perpetual Confusion Machine PistolShrimp's Avatar
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    Sounds like a rough situation. Dual or not, I think your gut is probably right in that her behavior indicates you should cut it off. Do you really want to spend your time chasing after her, sorting through her emotional baggage and playing mind games? That doesn't sound like the foundation for a healthy relationship.

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    You searches for 25 years and finally found an SEI??? Gimme a break, either you've been locked in a basement for that long, or this SEI is another houseplant you had a conversation with.

    Your dual is not THAT hard to find there are only 16types, I mean if there were 2500 types, then yeah, maybe it would take 25 years of searching.

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    Skilled people are also welcome to contribute!

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    Creepy-bg

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    Both are somewhat drunk. We look deeply at each other and she immediately starts doing what she has done every single time I have met her; she starts telling me Im beautifull and we exchange some touching which had quite deep emotional effects.

    After this happens, I notice that she had a guy sitting next to her (I opposing her). He looked really weirded out when we 'greeted' each other, and reacted with petting and caressing her quite demonstratively. I looked at her and gave her my attempt of a "I-know-I-can-do-better-than-that-guy-and-so-do-you"-smile, and she smiled back in a eeriely approving way. However, she (naturally) needed to 'pet the guy back'!

    This was deeply uncomfortable for me. I'm perfectly fine with the fact that she flirts with other dudes as a way of coping with some of her shit (I know that it won't solve her issues long-term though). What I hated was her doing this IN FRONT OF ME. That's a big fucking lack of respect in my book, which I have extremely hard to accept. In fact, I would cut it of instantly if I didn't think she was my dual.

  7. #7
    Creepy-bg

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    you sound a bit spun out on her. probably best to be bold enough to get either a real response or get rejected... or you could simmer in your crush for awhile and keep dreaming of the perfect moment, that's usually what i end up doing

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    Quote Originally Posted by qma View Post
    Skilled people are also welcome to contribute!
    An eye for an eye. Fair enough.

    Dude, all Im saying is, theres many ISFps out there. You probably know some without even knowing it, and dont get too hung up on duality, just let your feelings guide you in a relationship. You're the best judge of your own fullfillment, not socionics.

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    you sound a bit spun out on her. probably best to be bold enough to get either a real response or get rejected... or you could simmer in your crush for awhile and keep dreaming of the perfect moment, that's usually what i end up doing
    But isn't that exactly what I said I'm currently doing?

    Excuse me if I'm unclear, but I'm not really seeing my current situation as very 'spunn out' in the sense that I 'love' her. However, her general 'interestingness' triggers my 'want' to get to know her on a deep level, if that makes sense. I don't need her specifically. And I don't need her specifically either.

    I orchestrated a reaction to her last behavior which I suspect will give a positive response. I am pretty certain that she IS interested, but as I also stated I think that she is circulating in negative emotions without knowing how to break away from them herself. My take is that she can only be taken off-track through interaction with someone who understands her true self, but she will never see that without interacting. This is the task I am currently interested in solving.

    If she rejects, I will know why and don't really care (at least not for long). But I feel sort of a personal obligation to her to pull her out of her shitty situation. If I fail, then fuck it (and really: she failed, not me).

    Dude, all Im saying is, theres many ISFps out there. You probably know some without even knowing it, and dont get too hung up on duality, just let your feelings guide you in a relationship. You're the best judge of your own fullfillment, not socionics.
    I know that man. Of course I know other ISFps (sorry about being unclear with that, though it's completely irrelevant in this specific situation how many of them I know here).

    And no, I let rational thinking guide me in this as in most cases (you can let feelings guide yourself though, by all means). My feelings have guided me to the point where they prompted me to track their origin in order to fully comprehend them rationally.

    If I let my feelings guide my actual behavior, things will screw themselves up for sure (this I beleive is the general ILE-problem when it comes to romantic relationships: letting emotional markers dictate their behavior when they have insufficient conscious understanding of how the mechanics of relationships function).

    I simply need more data to assist my thinking and provide me with a clearer view of the context, that's what's really bugging me, nothing else.

    Also, I naturally don't rely on Socionics only in my thinking here. Yes, that would be stupid.
    Last edited by qma; 01-24-2012 at 05:16 PM. Reason: Cleared and clarified some stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by qma View Post





    I know that man. Of course I know other ISFps (sorry about being unclear with that, though it's completely irrelevant how many of them I know here). Also, there are of course other influencing factors in play here to which affects. And no, I let rational thinking guide me in this as in most cases (you can let feelings guide yourself though, by all means). My feelings have guided me to the point where they prompted me to track their origin. If I let my feelings guide my actual behavior, things will screw themselves up for sure (this I beleive is the general ILE-problem when it comes to romantic relationships: letting emotional markers dictate their behavior when they have insufficient conscious understanding of how the mechanics function). I simply need more data to assist my thinking and provide me with a clearer view of the context, that's what's bugging me, nothing else. Also, I naturally don't rely on Socionics only in my thinking, remember: I am ILE.
    And I am your beneficiary . So maybe I none of what I say will help. I cant help if you want "clearer data" .

  11. #11
    Creepy-bg

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    Quote Originally Posted by qma View Post
    But isn't that exactly what I said I'm currently doing?

    Excuse me if I'm unclear, but I'm not really seeing my current situation as very 'spunn out' in the sense that I 'love' her. However, her general 'interestingness' triggers my 'want' to get to know her on a deep level, if that makes sense. I don't need her specifically. And I don't need her specifically either.

    .
    ahh okay. nevermind then.

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    What kind of "data" are you looking for? Id say you should let her go before she rejects you as you said yourself you would have broken it off if she wasnt your dual. So what are you going by, if not socionics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    An eye for an eye. Fair enough.

    Dude, all Im saying is, theres many ISFps out there. You probably know some without even knowing it, and dont get too hung up on duality, just let your feelings guide you in a relationship. You're the best judge of your own fullfillment, not socionics.
    Formulated in another more direct way (to completely destroy you ): It is my feelings which guides me toward her, but my rational thinking will dictate my final actions.

    Does that resonate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by qma View Post
    Formulated in another more direct way (to completely destroy you ): It is my feelings which guides me toward her, but my rational thinking will dictate my final actions.

    Does that resonate?
    As you can see, Im already there:

    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon
    Id say you should let her go before she rejects you as you said yourself you would have broken it off if she wasnt your dual. So what are you going by, if not socionics?
    ...

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    I think it could be best to follow your natural instincts in response to her behaviors (cut her off after she doesn't answer your calls, etc.)

    This situation sounds like a mess. Maybe there are others who would be better suited to you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    As you can see, Im already there: Id say you should let her go before she rejects you as you said yourself you would have broken it off if she wasnt your dual. So what are you going by, if not socionics?
    ...
    What? What I diid when sending her my last message was to set up a situation for her where she has to make some sort of decision which can give me clear information (i.e. data) on if she's really just fucking around or if she is in fact interested. If she's fucking around, I'm not interested in pursuing her the least. But as I also have said a couple of times now: I don't really think that her behavior that specific night must be an indication that she lacks interest - rather she tries to feel better through interacting with other people, and when I came she really didn't have the 'heart' to give up on the other guy who flirted with her. We have a mutual understanding that she will take contact when "it feels right" for her, and I have communicated clearly to her that I am stable in my emotions. So, she might think that I understand her reaction and/or can cope with it. This I do/can, but I don't respect it. My last message informed her subtly that I didn't accept it - I prompted her to communicate what she wants to do now, because I'm not really interested in waiting if she's mindfucking me.

    Does this make sense to you?

    She acted poorly and I sent the last message to get a reaction from her to guide if I should continue to try bring her out or cut her off. I wasnt really 'hurt' in any other sense than the fact that my nervous-system reacted by sending out a 'uncooomfortable'-emotion. This emotion is 'I am hurt by you', but remember that this is purely instinctive/primal and not really based on a rational analysis of the situation. This is one example of an additional source of knowledge: Scientifically proven information about our communication-processes.

    Socionic knowledge inform me about how people and relations work - their potentials. In addition, I use my intuitive knowledge about human behaviors 'IRL' to inform me about their true intentions - our previous contacts and communication has been positive. If I acted purely without socionics, I WOULD cut her off due to principal because then I would act based on MY world-view and not HER's. But when type-functions inform me RATIONALLY that my principles might guide me to incorrect actions in this situation, I take that as an indication that I need to collect more info about the situation - the info about her true intentions, wants, and needs.

    Socionics provides quite valid reasons for me to NOT cut off without having full information on her situation.

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    Well, wait a little longer for her to respond, but it doesnt seem like she is going to do so. It doesnt seem like she cares about giving you her perspective and prefers to leave you in the dark - in which case you should probably not care about it either. I understand your frustartion I think that maybe if you give her your perspective, more perspective, she'll come around and share hers. Thats not how it works. Some people will forever leave you in the dark. I know, I've been there, unfortunately...

    Of course if she responds to you scratch what I said. But it doesnt look like she will...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    Well, wait a little longer for her to respond, but it doesnt seem like she is going to do so. It doesnt seem like she cares about giving you her perspective and prefers to leave you in the dark - in which case you should probably not care about it either. I understand your frustartion I think that maybe if you give her your perspective, more perspective, she'll come around and share hers. Thats not how it works. Some people will forever leave you in the dark. I know, I've been there, unfortunately...

    Of course if she responds to you scratch what I said. But it doesnt look like she will...

    OK, sorry. I should have scratched that question, because that is exactly the action I'm taking. If she won't answer I ofcourse won't continue sending stuff, that is counter-productive to the maximum.

    What I should have asked is what peoples ideas are on her behaviour, and then mainly other SEI's ideas. I suspect (not to be confused with expect) that she is simply shitscared when it comes to the idea of breaking out of her comfort-zone, and that this holds her communication back since she is so confused about what she should do. Remember what I stated:

    she's extremely hesistant to getting to know me deeper. She attributes this to her perception that she 'also wants to, but is confused and need to deal with her emotions first'. I apply these 'emotions' specifically to the accounts of a) irrational loyality and b) resistance to change - i.e. I know that she's had some relationships which were no good for her and which she find difficult to leave [irrational loyalty], and she selects these past experiences as ingredients when cooking up her 'worst case scenario' which would be: I fuck her over just like everyone else. [rationalizing resistance to change]
    .

    Maybe I shouldnt have written extremely hesistant. But rather just hesistant. I haven't really seen the extreme part when I think about it..

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    Quote Originally Posted by qma View Post
    ...
    when you start making exceptions for behavior you wouldn't otherwise tolerate due to socionics, you are going the wrong way. just by how you talk about it I can already tell you have a wrong conception of what duality is supposed to be. let this one go, you can't force or use socionics to make her heal faster or want to be with you if she is resisting & not ready. it doesn't matter if other people give input, none of what you wanted inquiry about is type related.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    when you start making exceptions for behavior you wouldn't otherwise tolerate due to socionics, you are going the wrong way. just by how you talk about it I can already tell you have a wrong conception of what duality is supposed to be. let this one go, you can't force or use socionics to make her heal faster or want to be with you if she is resisting & not ready. it doesn't matter if other people give input, none of what you wanted inquiry about is type related.
    Interesting. Can you elaborate on this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by qma View Post
    Interesting. Can you elaborate on this?
    I think what Pirate is saying is similar to what I was going to say.

    Duality theory tries to solve the problem of incompatibility, and it does, theoretically. This theory is intended to be applied so that you can experience this compatibility. You want this promised compatibility, which is why you're still trying with this SEI despite clear problems in your mind. The whole point of compatibility is that there aren't any mind-fucks/other problems with the relationship, everything is supposed to flow smoothly. The fact that things aren't flowing smoothly and that there are problems with your interaction shows that you are accomplishing the opposite of the intended goal of duality theory; you are forcing a relationship that is compatible in theory, but in reality is not.

    Socionics could be wrong, you could be wrong, a billion things can go wrong in this process, but if you listen to how you feel about the relationship/interaction, you can never be wrong. Even if it is true you're duals, it doesn't mean you're good for each other.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    She's probably playing with you a bit. I think she might be IEI or EIE tbqh, move on.

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    How do you ascertain shes beta NF from that little information. As if alpha SFs never play with people' minds .
    Last edited by Typhon; 01-25-2012 at 07:56 AM.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Little Satans View Post
    How do you ascertain shes beta NF from that little information. As if alpha SFs never play with people' minds .

    They play with your stomach too first...

    But it's just a intuition... Can't really justify it.. but QMA is getting played.

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    Haha, well, she did properly fucked you.

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