Results 1 to 31 of 31

Thread: Define intelligence

  1. #1
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 6 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,594
    Mentioned
    631 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default Define intelligence

    In your own words, please.

    bonus question: how much is it defined by culture, if at all?

    I'm most interested in what people have to say if they're trying to define it as objectively as possible.

  2. #2
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Expertise.

  3. #3
    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    TIM
    IEI 4-6-9 apparently
    Posts
    2,744
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    I know this is cheating somewhat, but I like Wikipedia's definition of fluid intelligence (to make it less like cheating, I'm paraphrasing it): the ability to think logically, analyse and solve problems in a variety of novel situations, independent of acquired knowledge.

    Obviously in practice, it won't be completely independent of acquired knowledge, e.g. the point you raise about culture - if you're trying to solve a problem similar to one you've seen before, resorting to a default solution that works better than someone else's de novo solution is not a sign of superior intelligence.

    I guess this means that interestingly, I completely disagree with Poli's succinct "expertise" definition.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

  4. #4
    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    emotionz
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    1,114
    Mentioned
    100 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's the ability to see past the surface of things and make genuine connections, although preferred areas of application/ease differ (people's behavior/demeanor, emotional states, abstract systems of logic, business strategies, social structures, what have you.)

    In sum, it's a kind of "sharpness of mind" that's not type related. And the person can be spacey, etc, and still have this.

  5. #5
    Crispy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,097
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Intelligence (INT): Intelligence is similar to IQ, but also includes mnemonic ability, reasoning and learning ability outside those measured by the written word. Intelligence dictates the number of languages a character can learn, and it influences the number of spells a preparation-based arcane spellcaster (like a Wizard) may cast per day, and the effectiveness of said spells. It also affects how many skill points a character gains per level, the Appraise, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Forgery, Knowledge, Search, and Spellcraft skills, and bardic knowledge checks.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

  6. #6
    Trevor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    2,860
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    aggregate competence over the areas that are relevant.

    The more intelligence relevant things you are competent at, the more intelligent you are.
    Last edited by Trevor; 01-18-2012 at 01:25 AM.

  7. #7
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's not as succinct as it sounds. Expertise could be in any realm of thought, as I could list thousands of areas others wouldn't even think of where intelligence could manifest, and it would be difficult to reason. Expertise is the knowledge which lends to the ability, whether it's intuitive or learned. I think the general term intelligence lends to the pretense potential, where as my idea of intelligence is based more as what understanding is already there within the mind. So my definition covers the widest range of thought.
    Last edited by 717495; 01-18-2012 at 01:42 AM.

  8. #8
    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    TIM
    IEI 4-6-9 apparently
    Posts
    2,744
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Expertise implies knowledge, experience, training, practice, learning, acquired skills - my idea of intelligence excludes all of that.

    e.g. if someone managed to solve a difficult maths problem despite not having studied maths much, I would say they were highly intelligent, but I wouldn't be able to say that they had any expertise in mathematics.

    In terms of potential/pre-existing knowledge, I definitely lean towards the potential side. I don't consider having the ability to retain a bunch of facts very relevant to the concept of intelligence. I wonder if it has to do with Te-PoLR?
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

  9. #9
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by octo View Post
    e.g. if someone managed to solve a difficult maths problem despite not having studied maths much, I would say they were highly intelligent, but I wouldn't be able to say that they had any expertise in mathematics.
    Ah, this is where you have the uninformed definition of expertise. I think it gets read as general knowledge, but has more to do with all areas of understanding.

  10. #10
    Professional Turtle Taknamay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    United States
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    819
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think of intelligence in terms of animal and robot intelligence. This can be briefly summarized as "the ability to adapt to new situations."
    All the good are friends of one another. (Zeno of Citium)
    EII (INFj) - 9w1 - INFP - Scorpio - Hufflepuff
    Johari - Quitter - Diaspora*

  11. #11
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 6 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,594
    Mentioned
    631 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by octo View Post
    In terms of potential/pre-existing knowledge, I definitely lean towards the potential side. I don't consider having the ability to retain a bunch of facts very relevant to the concept of intelligence. I wonder if it has to do with Te-PoLR?
    fwiw i completely agree.

    i was asked to define intelligence earlier today and my answer was roughly "the ability to reason well and have original thoughts" and i was told that this was subjective which made me curious how other people would describe it, especially if they were aiming to be objective.

  12. #12
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Just my point:
    expertise = expert skill or knowledge in a particular field (this includes the whole gamut), where one form of intelligence is "'the ability' to adapt to new situations" as Tak points out; the next form of intelligence is "'the ability' to think logically" and "analyse and solve problems in a variety of novel situations independent of acquired knowledge" as octo points out, and so on.

    As Abbie points out via dictionary "intelligence n capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc." This to me originates in various forms of expertise.

    That's my take.

    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    i was asked to define intelligence earlier today and my answer was roughly "the ability to reason well and have original thoughts" and i was told that this was subjective which made me curious how other people would describe it, especially if they were aiming to be objective.
    Reason and intelligence is subjective and contradictory, which is probably why you were told such.

  13. #13
    In Transition Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,692
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    After experiencing considerable temporary fluctuations of my intelligence through an extensive period of time as a result of a variety of factors. I have come to realize that intelligence is merely the ability to quickly form accurate perceptions and judgments of the world around you. The rate of speed and accuracy indicates the level of intelligence. Culture primarily affects which types of intelligence will be developed and how they will be used, but they will have a negligible impact on the level of one's general intelligence.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-4w5-9w1

  14. #14
    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    TIM
    IEI 4-6-9 apparently
    Posts
    2,744
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    One interesting factoid is that intelligence was postulated by Cattell to involve both fluid (potential) and crystallised (learned) intelligence.

    Fluid intelligence or fluid reasoning is the capacity to think logically and solve problems in novel situations, independent of acquired knowledge. It is the ability to analyze novel problems, identify patterns and relationships that underpin these problems and the extrapolation of these using logic. It is necessary for all logical problem solving, especially scientific, mathematical and technical problem solving. Fluid reasoning includes inductive reasoning and deductive reasoning.

    Crystallized intelligence is the ability to use skills, knowledge, and experience. It should not be equated with memory or knowledge, but it does rely on accessing information from long-term memory.

    Crystallized intelligence is one’s lifetime or intellectual achievement, as demonstrated largely through one's vocabulary and general knowledge. This improves somewhat with age, as experiences tend to expand one's knowledge.

    Not surprisingly, people with a high capacity of Gf tend to acquire more Gc knowledge and at faster rates.
    I personally have far less respect for crystallised than fluid intelligence, possibly because my memory is like a sieve. I think my age is also a factor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

  15. #15
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,624
    Mentioned
    155 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by octo View Post
    Expertise implies knowledge, experience, training, practice, learning, acquired skills - my idea of intelligence excludes all of that.
    Maybe we could derive an empirical definition of such kind -> intelligence = expertise / amount of time spent learning the subject/skill. It has a nice hyperbolic distribution which would fit with a normal distribution of intelligence over the reference population.

    I personally have far less respect for crystallised than fluid intelligence, possibly because my memory is like a sieve. I think my age is also a factor.
    I don't really care that much about crystallized intelligence either, even though they have a tendency to be highly correlated in people who managed to obtain some education.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  16. #16
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I think of intelligence as something like "knowing what to do when you don't know what to do."
    I prefer this type. It's probably most of what is meant by expertise in a human brain, when someone 'knows what to do but doesn't know what that is objectively.' There is so much we know but don't know what it is objectively. My favorite is generally intuitive expertise/talents, which is a larger stem from this. However I hardly care about anything to do with how quick someone is to come up with reason, there's always something deeper and more significant.

  17. #17
    Creepy-male

    Default

    I like expertise, but maybe it should be redefined as the potential to acquire expertise.

  18. #18
    Haikus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,060
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Intelligence is a mask. It tries to categorize and balance what cannot really be categorized and balanced. That's why intelligence is always at odds with eroticism, with just being a human, a human that's flawed and ugly. Deaf and dumb people are so hot, glue sniffers who don't think about the world so much and just want to enjoy other people, are tired of all the ego bickering.

    It's also emotionally dishonest. People hate to admit that there are things that get under their skin, they want to be tough. Being emotionally honest about something makes you vulnerable in the eyes of others. But you're just fronting, even if the only person you're fooling is yourself.

    Like I'm doing it again. I want to say 'but then again emotional syrup isn't a virtue either.' I want to mediate. I want to have everything balanced and cool and calm and collective. But there's an animal inside of me who wants to have sex and wants to hate and wants to snap the neck of my enemies. I'm an artist but I don't want equanimity. I want the artists to actually win. DIE BUSINESSMEN DIE!

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Moons of Uranus
    TIM
    IEI
    Posts
    629
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think intelligence is something that appeals to your logical mind and emotion, empowering you. I dont think intelligence has much to do with an impressive IQ as it does with listening to yourself.

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,934
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    the engagement of the inner & outer world

  21. #21
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    If you consider storing facts and observations without processing them a form of intelligence, I not only feel bad for you but I feel it's wrong in all kinds of ways.

  22. #22

    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    0
    Mentioned
    Post(s)
    Tagged
    Thread(s)

    Default

    "Having the ability to learn, adapt to change, or meaningfully interpret what permutations of information suggest" <- rough definition.

    I didn't necessarily mean intelligence itself is subjective, I meant how it's interpreted (or something like that) is subjective. The 'intelligence' one has is dependent on the intelligence people around him have. Take the IQ for instance (mostly BS pattern recognition in my opinion, but it is a decent example): You can get a number on it, whether it be 80 or 100 or 140, but you don't know what that number means unless you compare it to the numbers that other people got. So while the number itself is objective in the sense that it is a quantitative value that defines how well one does in 'x' area(s), having only your number alone doesn't tell you what that number means.

    I like the definition that Ashton posited, it is perhaps a more succinct way to put what I am trying to say.

  23. #23
    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    TIM
    IEI 4-6-9 apparently
    Posts
    2,744
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think a better word for what you're trying to say is "relative".

    I think intelligence is also somewhat subjective though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

  24. #24
    ഗന᎕ᒹ ±ᗉᚔXᙂഗ woofwoofl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Southern Arizona
    TIM
    x s x p s p s x
    Posts
    1,905
    Mentioned
    226 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Intelligence is so multifaceted that I can't find any way to quantitatively measure it in all its forms in any person, animal, plant, etc., and weigh the bulks of any of those against the bulks of any other. As for me, I don't know if I process as much as I consume, devour, take in; from there, everything sorts itself out somehow and it all works. Anyhow, here goes:

    intelligence - a measure, for any given object, equal to the distance between said object and non-sentience

    good luck on finding a way to measure though...

  25. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    18,006
    Mentioned
    162 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    Intelligence is so multifaceted that I can't find any way to quantitatively measure it in all its forms in any person, animal, plant, etc.
    You can't measure it "all". I.Q measures only one "side" of intelligence.

  26. #26
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    18,006
    Mentioned
    162 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Meow, cluck, moo.

    Don't mind the double post, but forgot to add when I said that is measures just one "side" of intelligence. In English it means that I.Q measures an organism's observable characteristics or traits such as its morphology, development, phenology, behaviour, etc.

    Damn Opera.

  27. #27

    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    0
    Mentioned
    Post(s)
    Tagged
    Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Meow, cluck, moo.

    Don't mind the double post, but forgot to add when I said that is measures just one "side" of intelligence. In English it means that I.Q measures an organism's observable characteristics or traits such as its morphology, development, phenology, behaviour, etc.

    Damn Opera.
    Hence... the edit button.

  28. #28
    Atlast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    235
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You know what, I think I like this topic; it allows me to share an insight I forgot I had.

    There's no such thing as intelligence. The kid who is a musical mastermind at age 13? He probably studied it since 3 and had his parents shove it down his throat. That kid who aced all the tests in your math class? He probably already knew the material or had a damn good idea walking into that class.

    I honestly think that the concept of intelligence aims to create the feeling of impotence in an 'other' group of people, and to artificially strengthen the egos of its users. You guys will have a million different definitions, and every one will conform to the one presenting it, or, if they have been pressured into a different definition from one who would proclaim himself superior and them the 'other', they will guiltily present a definition that conflicts with their behavior (or incorporates both).

    It's as illogical to place logic on a pedestal and call it worthy of worship and merit (hidden in the word intelligence) as it is race, hobbies, whatever. It's just one more way of justifying and complimenting one school of thought while downplaying and even condemning others. I would embrace an environment where they are all welcome and worthy of merit in their own right, not shunned as invaluable.

    Whatever, maybe I'm full of shit - I just really don't like to use the word to describe myself, anyone or anything.

  29. #29
    silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    TIM
    Ni-IEI sx/sp
    Posts
    3,778
    Mentioned
    317 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    After experiencing considerable temporary fluctuations of my intelligence through an extensive period of time as a result of a variety of factors. I have come to realize that intelligence is merely the ability to quickly form accurate perceptions and judgments of the world around you. The rate of speed and accuracy indicates the level of intelligence. Culture primarily affects which types of intelligence will be developed and how they will be used, but they will have a negligible impact on the level of one's general intelligence.
    I like this definition, I'd only also add having formed all those perceptions ability to construct intentional action with those same levels of high accuracy as somehow I don't think that just passively absorbing information is enough to classify as intelligence

  30. #30
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    18,006
    Mentioned
    162 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nil View Post
    Hence... the edit button.
    Haha. You're so funny and intelligent I almost laughed. There are times I can't edit when running Opera. Smells like a spawn of Gamma to me.

  31. #31
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    this is intelligence:


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •