Results 1 to 35 of 35

Thread: What are good friends for if they cant do you any good?

  1. #1
    Hiding Typhon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Valhalla
    TIM
    Ni-ENFj
    Posts
    2,645
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default What are good friends for if they cant do you any good?

    I was thinking. What is friendship founded on? Is it founded on a mutual exchange of shared experiences that one needs and craves, rather than "just being friends"? What I mean is, many friendships in my past(though not all of them about half of them) have started because of drugs. I had people befriend me because they needed to do drugs with, though some of them turned out to be false friends in the end, with one fo them I am still friends and he doesnt do anything anymore, he hardly drinks a few beers and he wants to quit smoking. Yet our freindship started on the basis we both needed someone to get high with. Yet this wasnt al it wasnt founded on obviously, since we're still friends now.

    It doesnt have to be just drugs, and friendships. It can also be relationships. Dont you get into a relationship because you want sex, partnership, and someone to be with? I guess where Im going with this is to what extent is ok to use each other for these types of things, if you could call this using each other at all? In other words, what is wrong with making friends who can deliver some goods, rather then just make friends with people who have nothing to offer you? It doesnt seem anything wrong with it, it seems this would be a good basis for relationships forming. Yet I am terrified of people profiting from me, I can ascertain, due to life experiences which people are true friends and which ones are just using me. Ive had a "friend" who wanted me as a friend so long as she had someone to do coke with and visit her in rehab when she felt lonely, yet when I needed her bceause it was my turn to feel lonely, she told me off and it escalated into a fight, and we had a falling out.

    This is a complex question. I guess friendhips should be based on a mutual exhange of positive experiences, but true friends are people who are there when you are down and you need something also. Some people are one sided, they use you as long as it works for them, but when you need something from them, they ditch you.

    So what should friendship be based on? Sharing victories, as Neiteche put it, but also being able support each others for our failures when we need each other to? What are your thoughts?

  2. #2
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's all just a big mashup mix of what you get, what you feel, what you think is right...you can't judge relationships on any one standard, they're far too complex; trying to deconstruct them usually just leads to doing so habitually/compulsively, and thereby negating their actual value. When figuring out whether being friends with someone is worth it or not, just be honest with yourself; trying to deconstruct them is, however, sometimes an affirmative sign that they no longer have much real worth, unless there is some uninvolved factor that is at the root of said questioning.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  3. #3
    Hiding Typhon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Valhalla
    TIM
    Ni-ENFj
    Posts
    2,645
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    trying to deconstruct them is, however, sometimes an affirmative sign that they no longer have much real worth, unless there is some uninvolved factor that is at the root of said questioning.
    I was gonna ask you what you mean by this, especially the part about the "uninvolved factor" but I think I understand what you mean; sometimes you question for stupid reasons that are related to your image and percpetion of the person, not their actual defects. In other words, you're just being paranoid.

    Or did I not understand you right?

  4. #4
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    I was gonna ask you what you mean by this, especially the part about the "uninvolved factor" but I think I understand what you mean; sometimes you question for stupid reasons that are related to your image and percpetion of the person, not their actual defects. In other words, you're just being paranoid.

    Or did I not understand you right?
    Well either you're being paranoid or its not a worthwhile relationship. You just have to ask yourself what the root of the questioning is: is it something the actual person you have in question did, or are you just going through a questioning phase?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  5. #5
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,781
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    I was thinking. What is friendship founded on? Is it founded on a mutual exchange of shared experiences that one needs and craves, rather than "just being friends"? What I mean is, many friendships in my past(though not all of them about half of them) have started because of drugs. I had people befriend me because they needed to do drugs with, though some of them turned out to be false friends in the end, with one fo them I am still friends and he doesnt do anything anymore, he hardly drinks a few beers and he wants to quit smoking.
    I've always found drugs a great social medium; smarter people do them, and you're guaranteed a high; it's a more spiritual version of people eating together.

    desire is self-same, only its expression is distorted by unconscious fixations (like sound frequencies); this confusion turns interaction into a balancing act.

    the guy who ripped me off so he could buy weed expressed the conflict that his standard of value led to, yet this doesn't bear on mine (and I don't believe anything is ever gained or lost, just refashioned).

    every relationship begins with the prospect of benefit, so ideally each party has their basic needs provided for, with all else shared... but this is made difficult by how we have come to structure relations. these days you're more likely to pass by a grotesque incarnation of your soulmate rushing up a metro station elevator, foreal.
    Last edited by strrrng; 12-29-2011 at 04:44 PM.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  6. #6
    Hiding Typhon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Valhalla
    TIM
    Ni-ENFj
    Posts
    2,645
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I've always found drugs a great social medium; smarter people do them, and you're guaranteed a high; it's a more spiritual version of people eating together.
    I like this perspective. You do meet smarter people that way, except when you hang out with people from extremely socioeconomic backgrounds to do with, in which case they generally aerent very smart, like my freind as a teenager who introduced me to weed, and I owe it him, but lets face it he was a bad friend, and not very enlightened.

    desire is self-same, only its expression is distorted by unconscious fixations (like sound frequencies); this confusion turns interaction into a balancing act.
    I admit I do not understand what you mean by this; whos desire are you talking about? One's own desire I would suppose? Perahps you could elaborate a little because I admit I am confused by this statement, lol.


    these days you're more likely to pass by a grotesque incarnation of your soulmate rushing up a metro station elevator, foreal.
    Haha.

  7. #7
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,781
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    I like this perspective. You do meet smarter people that way, except when you hang out with people from extremely socioeconomic backgrounds to do with, in which case they generally aerent very smart, like my freind as a teenager who introduced me to weed, and I owe it him, but lets face it he was a bad friend, and not very enlightened.
    yeah, I think it's more qualitative. different sub-groups are akin to IQ standard deviations ime (overlap applies). and then within sub-groups it balances out. but my initial point was general; I probably shouldn't have said 'smarter,' just more open, in the big 5 sense.

    I admit I do not understand what you mean by this; whos desire are you talking about? One's own desire I would suppose? Perahps you could elaborate a little because I admit I am confused by this statement, lol.
    well I was trying to condense how I see the mechanism working. humans are marbles rotating within each other. and the 'unconscious' is the space where it all occurs. marbles are on strings. desire itself is a negative composite (everything is sated, yet living, i.e. the root of every utopic delusion), a reflection of the unity between the marbles and strings. but every marble thinks it's alone and not only that it knows how it will vibrate, but how the string should as well! so do people take desires as disparate, extinguishing sparks in the vain hope of a wildfire, knowing, as the matrix eloquently put it, that 'it is but the feeling,' without taking the blindfold off. so desire is 'self-same' beneath the veil of variability, the will of consciousness embodied, and thus the analogy to relationships.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    18,006
    Mentioned
    162 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Friends come and go, only enemies accumulate.

  9. #9
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The day you realize you have no friends, your life starts changing for the better. You stop expecting, depending and investing, and you begin learning how to be (completely) self-reliant.

    You can never achieve things like complete independence, but as long as you strive for the right things in life (and dedicate yourself to their pursuit), you're good.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  10. #10
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    This is a complex question. I guess friendhips should be based on a mutual exhange of positive experiences, but true friends are people who are there when you are down and you need something also. Some people are one sided, they use you as long as it works for them, but when you need something from them, they ditch you.
    Yes. The problem here is that people see and experience things differently. They may not think they're using you (one-sidedly), and even be completely unaware that you feel that way. Some people will care how you feel, others won't. Some will change, others won't. Some people will genuinely and unrestrainedly "use" you, aiming to gain as much as possible while giving nothing in return. It's all a matter of perspective, priorities, and how you handle yourself. IEEs would probably say it's the "static" qualities of people that make the person, but... people change, significantly. Their relationships, too. If you brake out of your comfort zone and reinvent yourself, people around you will (inevitably) adjust, and your relationships will take a completely different dimension. You can learn to set clear personal boundaries, so that one-sided things occur less frequently, and when they do you'll know it's because of your own good will and conscious judgement, not because someone else played you. Also, you can train yourself to not "need" things from others in a way that you'll expect or ask for them, but create relationships and circumstances that will bring you the things you need when you need them without much of your intervention, and without feeling used, etc.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  11. #11
    InkStrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    419
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    This is a complex question. I guess friendhips should be based on a mutual exhange of positive experiences, but true friends are people who are there when you are down and you need something also. Some people are one sided, they use you as long as it works for them, but when you need something from them, they ditch you.

    So what should friendship be based on? Sharing victories, as Neiteche put it, but also being able support each others for our failures when we need each other to? What are your thoughts?
    I think friendships should very simply be based on mutual liking and interest in one another. When this is strong enough, it is sure to show in our behavior/attitude towards the person in question. Thinking too much on what could be gained out of friendship, soils the friendship to an extent and it feels less "pure", because it pulls it too much over into the realm of practicalities.

    I don't think it is so much the mutual exchange of positive experiences (or did you mean, positive mutually shared experiences?). Mutual sharing - whether they be positive or negative experiences, is IME one of the quickest methods of bonding, because it helps to build trust through identification/sympathy/empathy among individuals. People won't trust you if they don't feel that they know you.

    I think that this is a very interesting topic, and is one that I have frequently mulled over. Where is that line between "using" people and genuinely turning to them for help? There are "practical" friendships as well as "emotional" friendships, and the shades in between. To me, a good friendship is, in overly simplistic terms, one that I value more for "emotional" reasons than for practical purpose.

  12. #12
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    eastern U.S.
    TIM
    ENFp, IEE
    Posts
    2,520
    Mentioned
    233 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think people need people and its good to give the people in your life what they need, and not expect back so much [you may get back from someone else entirely]. I like to give freely, and trust God will provide for me somehow. And it usually works. Ad it puts me in the position of having genuine happiness and surprise when someone wants to offer back.

    Sometimes people are in a space in their life where they just don't have much to give, only take. The reason could be damage much deeper than they even realize. My giving means their needs are being filled and they are not wearing on someone else. And someday they will be in a position to give more, if not to me, then to someone else.

    I really do believe in heavenly rewards so there is not too much giving that can happen here on earth, especially those daily kindnesses and considerations.

    If someone is becoming a habitual taker in your life, if you are feeling continually inconvenienced, its a signal its time to re-evaluate and maybe cut them off. It is for their own good, too, not just yours.

    I like what Parkster said here:

    The day you realize you have no friends, your life starts changing for the better. You stop expecting, depending and investing, and you begin learning how to be (completely) self-reliant.
    I do think that is an important turning point to reach. It would be interesting to hear if others felt they reached a turning point along these lines.

    I was hit with something like this during my divorce. Oh, and a couple years before that my conversion to Catholic. Yes, so first, I lost my large circle of friends and many, many, acquaintances in my church when I converted to Catholic. Then two years later I lost pretty much everybody else during the divorce, at a time when I needed friends more than ever.

    I did not know how very many fair-weather friends I had! I thought everyone just liked me for me, like I liked them. Well, they didn't. But the truth sets you free. What was left were a scant handful of true friends. Two maybe? Possibly three. Can't think of a third! Really, it became slim pickings.

    About this time I had a move scheduled and NO ONE to help me! Okay so I had two friends, an INFJ who is weak and I had furniture to move and she was tied up with a toddler and a nursing baby anyway. The other friend, a sweet ISFJ who is strong, an ex-farmhand on her family farm growing up. She has a lovely Evangelical faith [she was the only one who did not desert me when I converted] and never tires of giving to family, friends, acquaintances and strangers. She recruited her family to help me in the afternoon unload at the new place, and that included a husband with a heart problem and 3 good-size school boys. But I had to get the stuff in the moving truck to get to that location and I couldn't load the rental truck alone.

    So it was two days before the move and God had still not dropped anybody at my doorstop. I was going to Daily Mass at the time and so I approached a stranger [I had never met, but I had seen him there before, and he looked able-bodied, unlike most of the people there] and asked him if he would mind speaking with me when he was done praying... Well, he helped, and brought a friend!

    Yes, I was that desperate. But I learned there are good people out there [at a time when I was questioning if they existed in my corner of the world].

    But going through that made me realize it was precious to know for certain that those two friends were in fact true friends. I kind of realized, as the shock very slowly wore off, that it may have been worth the price to find that out. And when I meet new people now, I don't assume...

    [However, I feel afraid sometimes I assume about my ISTp! I guess once in a while it scares me that my ISTp may not feel anything of what i feel. Its long distance, for now, and there are these spaces, these long spaces that ISTps impose... Oh well, I just have to have faith...and patience...] [and maybe I am dramatizing? Is three days a long space?? It is to me...]

  13. #13
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    As much as I hate religion and can't help but feel disdain for people who accentuate their beliefs, I like what Eliza said, and will go as far as to say that her reasoning (regarding people/relationships) is pretty much along the lines of mine. Naturally I'd be inclined to mock the "people need people" philosophy, but I guess things like that is why I need IEEs for - to constantly remind me I don't live alone, and discretely make up for all the Fe I lack.
    Last edited by Park; 12-30-2011 at 05:02 AM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  14. #14
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I did not know how very many fair-weather friends I had! I thought everyone just liked me for me, like I liked them. Well, they didn't. But the truth sets you free.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    [However, I feel afraid sometimes I assume about my ISTp! I guess once in a while it scares me that my ISTp may not feel anything of what i feel. Its long distance, for now, and there are these spaces, these long spaces that ISTps impose... Oh well, I just have to have faith...and patience...] [and maybe I am dramatizing? Is three days a long space?? It is to me...]
    Long distance can be tricky. Give it time though, and try not to rush to conclusions. ISTp's have a slower pace and can be hard to attach, but when they do, it's for real... no games, no BS. Also, don't expect us to overtly express how we feel. Especially in the beginning stages of a relationship.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  15. #15
    Hiding Typhon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Valhalla
    TIM
    Ni-ENFj
    Posts
    2,645
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    As much as I hate religion and can't help but feel disdain for people who accentuate their believes, I like what Eliza said, and will go as far as to say that her reasoning (regarding people/relationships) is pretty much along the lines of mine. Naturally I'd be inclined to mock the "people need people" philosophy, but I guess things like that is why I need IEEs for - to constantly remind me I don't live alone, and discretely make up for all the Fe I lack.
    There was a period of my life, that is when I had just moved back to Brussels and had to say goodye to all my good friends in Las Vegas(Its hard to make friends in Belgium, since the population of Brussels is 50 percent isolated). It was horribly depressing, but at the same time it allowed me to explore music and philosphy which I would've never explored if I had been surrounded by friends all the time. Your post about having no friends bringing out your more independant self made realize this is exactly what happened; my identity became more accentuated, and I could develop it. Now Ive made friends out here while mainatining the identity I developped during my loner phase and Im eternally thankful Im not alone anymore as its not something I would want to live again, since "without a friend, one would not want to live, even if blessed with all other goods."
    Last edited by Typhon; 12-30-2011 at 05:23 AM.

  16. #16
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    "without a friend, one would not want to live, even if blessed with all other goods."
    Meh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    The ISTp is in an automatic, high-tech kind of place; the people attending to it are minimal. The temperature of the bath is regulated automatically; the food is cooked by robots, the garden is watered automatically. The ISTp knows that all the instruments must be working perfectly to keep his sensations at optimal level.

    If things are working well, the ISTp feels good.
    Now this is more like it.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  17. #17
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    eastern U.S.
    TIM
    ENFp, IEE
    Posts
    2,520
    Mentioned
    233 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Parkster! You are not a man! You are a lovely lady! You have a nice face.. And very ISTp!
    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Long distance can be tricky. Give it time though, and try not to rush to conclusions. ISTp's have a slower pace and can be hard to attach, but when they do, it's for real... no games, no BS. Also, don't expect us to overtly express how we feel. Especially in the beginning stages of a relationship.
    Thanks for good ISTp advice. I had another question, I thought my ISTp was stalling me, but he finally wrote back... I am so attached...
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 12-30-2011 at 04:38 PM.

  18. #18
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Parkster! You are not a man! You are a lovely lady! You have a nice face.. And very ISTp!
    LOL, that isn't me. And I AM a man. I like her face, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Thanks for good ISTp advice.
    No problem. Apologies if what I said about religion earlier was offensive. Wasn't intended as such. I respect people's beliefs as long as they don't try to impose them on others. And you don't seem like that type of person to me.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  19. #19
    Professional Turtle Taknamay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    United States
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    819
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Well I think some of the phrases you have used are ambiguous, and therefore it is difficult to understand the question posed. In fact, I think "just being friends" as in "being friends for the sake of being friends" might be the most shallow reason to be someone's friend, therefore the answer to the question is simple to me. However, if you meant something other than the way I have interpreted it, then the question may be more complicated.

    I have friends because I love them and they love me. If they didn't love me, we wouldn't be friends. If I didn't love them, we wouldn't be friends. I suppose that could be considered a mutual exchange.
    All the good are friends of one another. (Zeno of Citium)
    EII (INFj) - 9w1 - INFP - Scorpio - Hufflepuff
    Johari - Quitter - Diaspora*

  20. #20
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    eastern U.S.
    TIM
    ENFp, IEE
    Posts
    2,520
    Mentioned
    233 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    LOL, that isn't me. And I AM a man. I like her face, too.
    What! LOL, you must be purposely trying to mislead the masses here!

    It is a very SLI face she has, isn't it?

    No problem. Apologies if what I said about religion earlier was offensive. Wasn't intended as such. I respect people's beliefs as long as they don't try to impose them on others. And you don't seem like that type of person to me.
    Not at all. I liked what you said. I am kind of stubborn about mentioning my faith when I want because its a big part of who I am, and I refuse to succumb to today's cultural tyranny that God is an unmentionable -- but EVERYTHING else is! So closed-minded!

    But I completely respect that anyone else doesn't like to talk or even think of God in their lives. I think everyone is on a journey. I fully believe that seeing God is at the end of the journey, but I respect that others disagree.

    I guess I expect that some people will feel some disdain for me when I bring faith things but I want to be true to who I am. And people change and grow, and they just might get over it. I used to feel disdain for people who would swear. I needed to get over that. [my ISTP does. He keeps to to "crap" related words mostly...]

    I was a amused when a favorite mystic [just mentioned in another thread, the 666 one] whom Jesus speaks to in a clear interior voice, was told by Him to stop swearing - when this is something she had been doing right along [in her private life, not her conversations with Him] while having this "talking" relationship with Jesus, and he was taking her on journeys to see Heaven so she could write about it! He hadn't before reprimanded her; I guess He thought it was time. It made it clear to me that Jesus has his own priorities for people, and His priority in their life right now might not be what others would think it is.

    So my policy is to ignore the things I don't like that others do and remember that I am falling so short especially considering all the graces I have been given, and in Gods eyes this other person may be doing much, much better than me, for the issues they have to deal with...

    I do believe the Church must teach what is right and what is wrong [and its been doing a very poor job of that in the past couple of decades or so], but that is for us to learn for ourselves and not to run other people's lives. He doesn't want us to judge. Only He Who knows hearts can do that.

    Whoops! I hope I don't make you too sick with the God-talk!

    Actually my ISTP has a strong very personal faith, including very faithful Catholic devotional practices, but I've long noticed he does not bring up faith issues in mixed company. I don't expect that to ever change; its who he is.
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 12-31-2011 at 01:25 AM.

  21. #21

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    153
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Meh.
    Now this is more like it.
    Is this a Beta vs. Delta values divide? I know plenty of Deltas that are fiercely independent (and just enjoy their lives much more when completely alone at times), while the Betas seemingly magnetize with one another and are generally pretty uncomfortable by themselves (completely alone I mean).

  22. #22
    Hiding Typhon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Valhalla
    TIM
    Ni-ENFj
    Posts
    2,645
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yes, exactly what clumsy wrote.

    Deltas are independant dont need constant small talk and emotional recharge around people to feel good while betas are msierable being lone wolves.

  23. #23
    Professional Turtle Taknamay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    United States
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    819
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Well what about someone who desires deep, meaningful conversation?
    All the good are friends of one another. (Zeno of Citium)
    EII (INFj) - 9w1 - INFP - Scorpio - Hufflepuff
    Johari - Quitter - Diaspora*

  24. #24
    Hiding Typhon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Valhalla
    TIM
    Ni-ENFj
    Posts
    2,645
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Taknamay View Post
    Well what about someone who desires deep, meaningful conversation?
    What about them ?

  25. #25
    Professional Turtle Taknamay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    United States
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    819
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    What about them ?
    Do they get a quadra? Or is it not type related
    All the good are friends of one another. (Zeno of Citium)
    EII (INFj) - 9w1 - INFP - Scorpio - Hufflepuff
    Johari - Quitter - Diaspora*

  26. #26
    Hiding Typhon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Valhalla
    TIM
    Ni-ENFj
    Posts
    2,645
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Taknamay View Post
    Do they get a quadra? Or is it not type related
    I dont know. I do know that I desire deep, meaningful conversations, but sometimes I like to make small talk just to get these types of conversations started, mainly because you cant just go up to someone and start discussing philosophy with them and still be socially acceptable. I guess these types of conversations are a good form of energy exchange, in the end.

  27. #27
    Professional Turtle Taknamay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    United States
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    819
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    I dont know. I do know that I desire deep, meaningful conversations, but sometimes I like to make small talk just to get these types of conversations started, mainly because you cant just go up to someone and start discussing philosophy with them and still be socially acceptable. I guess these types of conversations are a good form of energy exchange, in the end.
    I see. The reason I asked was because I was wondering if it might have been versus related, or something like that. I honestly don't know much about applied Socionics. It's difficult to find much information on it, all the articles I find are theory, theory, theory. I understand the theory is supposed to imply the application, but... I feel like it doesn't do a good job of that.
    All the good are friends of one another. (Zeno of Citium)
    EII (INFj) - 9w1 - INFP - Scorpio - Hufflepuff
    Johari - Quitter - Diaspora*

  28. #28
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,693
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    I dont know. I do know that I desire deep, meaningful conversations, but sometimes I like to make small talk just to get these types of conversations started, mainly because you cant just go up to someone and start discussing philosophy with them and still be socially acceptable. I guess these types of conversations are a good form of energy exchange, in the end.
    Never thought about small talk in that way, I can appreciate it in this context, though I'll never value it(or be decent at it) in and of itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clumsy View Post
    Is this a Beta vs. Delta values divide? I know plenty of Deltas that are fiercely independent (and just enjoy their lives much more when completely alone at times), while the Betas seemingly magnetize with one another and are generally pretty uncomfortable by themselves (completely alone I mean).
    SeFe(Object Involvement) vs NeTe(Object Detachment), could be.
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

    31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
    My work on Inert/Contact subtypes

    Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
    Socionics Tests Database
    Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites


    Fidei Defensor

  29. #29
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    What! LOL, you must be purposely trying to mislead the masses here!
    I'm just showing love for things I like in my avatar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    It is a very SLI face she has, isn't it?
    I don't know. She's pretty sweet.




    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Whoops! I hope I don't make you too sick with the God-talk!
    Ahem...
    Last edited by Park; 01-02-2012 at 06:58 AM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  30. #30
    Haikus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,060
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    It sounds like you're just still trying to idealize people and your relationships, instead of accepting them the way they are.

    A friend is not your therapist. A friend is not your therapist. A friend is not your therapist. It isn't a friend's job to make you less insecure, to get you over your childhood fears and neurosis, that's the job of you and a trusted social worker/therapist. A friend is somebody , as the saying goes 'is there in prison with you.' Like my friend Meg, who I adore very much. She likes video games like me, isn't afraid to be a 'dork' is really smart, has a big heart like me- we have a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses. It feels good when my friend meg says really nice things to make me feel better about myself, but relying on this or asking for it honestly takes the magic away from when she does say it. There's also the 'dark'/bitchy side of meg and I think friendship is a test of tolerating other's dark/shadow points rather then always paying attention to the good. Because with your friends you feel comfortable around them and you naturally let your guard down. Like Robin, Meg and Amanda I'm a lot more open about my romantic/personal crushes and I can't really do that with everybody because they just don't really know how to respond to my personality or something and I can innately tell that I just have to sorta hold myself back lol. It's not that I think they would be mean about it, it's just that they wouldn't 'get it' you know?

    Having the same values/level of morality also is essential. If a friend is doing something that I ethically object to, I find myself conflicted, as I don't really want to be there with them when I think they're doing something dark and destructive.... and I feel kind of conflicted, because in the past I've disconnected from others too much because I gave them unrealistic standards that nobody can live up to. I am trying now to be more forgiving with people even though I always know as a writer and ethical IEI faggot I will always understand the 'right' thing to do. =/ I have done questionable things myself though that my friends don't like, but that's all what I was saying about accepting people's 'dark sides' or whatever.

  31. #31
    Haikus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,060
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yet I am terrified of people profiting from me, I can ascertain, due to life experiences which people are true friends and which ones are just using me. Ive had a "friend" who wanted me as a friend so long as she had someone to do coke with and visit her in rehab when she felt lonely, yet when I needed her bceause it was my turn to feel lonely, she told me off and it escalated into a fight, and we had a falling out.
    This is unfortunate. I can tell you're a sensitive guy and you need somebody that is patient and understanding with you. I think this is kind of a double standard of society, people can more easily accept that girls want to work and be more independent but everybody still sort of looks down on a man's need to emotionally connect. I don't really know what to tell you, other then only open your heart to people who really deserve it you know?

    Joss Whedon called it 'making them work really really hard for the sweet tender faggy moments.'

  32. #32
    Hiding Typhon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Valhalla
    TIM
    Ni-ENFj
    Posts
    2,645
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I am not trying to idealize my friends, Im trying to figure out which friends are worth keeping and which aerent actually freinds to begin with.

    Your friend isnt your therapist in the sense that they are not a professional. But i dont see why a friend couldnt help when you are down, or support, or give you backup, if they so choose. It all depends on which friend of course. Every friend is different and there for something else. Like my friend Erick, great guy, and golden example of what a friend should be. Hes great for laughing together, doing things together, talking about chicks together, and in general just having a blast. But if I have problems I wouldnt go to him, becaus e hes just not a listener, the only time he listens to my problems is when I laugh about them. Yet i dont hold it against him. If I have problems I go to Fabrizio who is very supportive, though less of an adventurer. I dont hold the latter fact against him either.

  33. #33
    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    TIM
    Introvert sp/sx
    Posts
    7,739
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't know. I tend to be friends with people who seek me out that I find interesting, funny, open minded, and outgoing. It's kind of unusual for me to go out and try to make deep friendships with people. Usually I'm just nice or thoughtful to others with a take-it-or-leave it attitude to seeing them outside of whatever reason I have to interact with them (like work or school or whatever). I think some people find this off putting, like they think we're "friends" and I don't act the part all the time. Sometimes this is because I'm just kind of nice to pretty much everybody, even when you're kind of boring and annoying imo. Other times it's just because I'm a sort of out-of-sight-out-of-mind guy and I'm absolutely horrible at keeping in touch with people that I don't have consistent reasons to see on a regular basis. I also suffer from bouts of dropping off the face of the earth and not really talking to anybody I don't have to occasionally.

    That probably makes me sound kind of asocial, but I mean there are people who I enjoy incredibly, that I'll get excited about seeing or talking to even if I'm sort of minimizing the social aspect of my life. For whatever reason, I'm weird like that.
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

  34. #34
    Professional Turtle Taknamay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    United States
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    819
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    "Don't you get into a relationship because you want sex, partnership, and someone to be with?"

    I don't see why there has to be a motive that complex. I get into a relationship because I like someone, and I want to be with people I like. Like I said, even that can be considered a "mutual exchange" but in that case it is simply because of the broad way you are using the term so that it can apply to very abstract things.
    All the good are friends of one another. (Zeno of Citium)
    EII (INFj) - 9w1 - INFP - Scorpio - Hufflepuff
    Johari - Quitter - Diaspora*

  35. #35
    Hiding Typhon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Valhalla
    TIM
    Ni-ENFj
    Posts
    2,645
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    I don't know. I tend to be friends with people who seek me out that I find interesting, funny, open minded, and outgoing. It's kind of unusual for me to go out and try to make deep friendships with people. Usually I'm just nice or thoughtful to others with a take-it-or-leave it attitude to seeing them outside of whatever reason I have to interact with them (like work or school or whatever). I think some people find this off putting, like they think we're "friends" and I don't act the part all the time. Sometimes this is because I'm just kind of nice to pretty much everybody, even when you're kind of boring and annoying imo. Other times it's just because I'm a sort of out-of-sight-out-of-mind guy and I'm absolutely horrible at keeping in touch with people that I don't have consistent reasons to see on a regular basis. I also suffer from bouts of dropping off the face of the earth and not really talking to anybody I don't have to occasionally.

    That probably makes me sound kind of asocial, but I mean there are people who I enjoy incredibly, that I'll get excited about seeing or talking to even if I'm sort of minimizing the social aspect of my life. For whatever reason, I'm weird like that.
    Regarding these people at work or school, you are choosing the lesser of two evils by being friendly with them despite not being their friend. The other alternative would be to be a dick to anyone who isnt your friend. But I dont find that the latter is pleasant at all for others, even if its an attempt at sincerity and not leading others on. The problem is that we have to interact with people who aerent necessarily our friends in a friendly manner which leads to attachment, bonding, and basically just giving a shit about the other person involunatarily. We're human beings so showing affection naturally leads to these sort of things, despite whether or not the person is right for you, or whether you really want to be with them when you get to know their true face, when they start to reveal more about themselves.

    I think the solution is, to have good communication from an early start to prevent misunderstandings to arise between two parties and basically let the other person know what you consider them as: A friend? an acquintance? There are many ways to do this, like to drop hints or simply ask if you have a question regarding the status of the relationship. Your post hits the nail on the head as to why I made this thread; trying to sum up and solve the problems I mentioned above.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •