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Thread: Middle-Ground Between Base and Mobilizing Function

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    Default Middle-Ground Between Base and Mobilizing Function

    How do you use your mobilizing function?

    Here's what I think: When types use their mobilizing function, it's never differentiated as it would be for someone who has it as their primary function. An INFj using Si is a lot different, not only in confidence or fluency and such, from an ISTp using Si. When the former uses Si as their mobilizing function, it is heavily biased towards Fi. It is not pure perception/sensation. There's almost always feeling-value attached to it. Conversely when an ISTp uses Fi, it is biased towards Si, when an INTj uses Si, it is biased towards Ti, and so on.

    This creates a common middling-ground between activity relations, with two common dichotomies.

    ISTp/INFj: Si+Fi (Involved Field)
    ISFp/INTj: Si+Ti (External Field)
    INFp/ISTj: Ni+Ti (Abstract Field)
    INTp/ISFj: Ni+Fi (Internal Field)

    And likewise for extroverted types.

    ENTp/ESFj: Ne+Fe (Internal Object)
    ESTp/ENFj: Se+Fe (Involved Object)
    ESFp/ENTj: Se+Te (External Object)
    ENFp/ESTj: Ne+Te (Abstract Object)

    I can only theoretically assume how this manifests in other types, so I'm looking for opinions and first-hand accounts of how guys perceive your relationship with your mobilizing function.

    How Involved Field (Fi+Si) manifests, in my experience: there's a coalescence of the physical stimulus and personal value and it flows together to form a visceral emotional response. One becomes part of their environment completely. There's a scene in the movie Into the Wild, where the protagonist watches the sunset and is so overcome by emotion that he gets tears in his eyes. That scene, I think, succinctly represents what I mean.

    (I couldn't find the actual scene but here's a screenshot: )



    Like stargazing and feeling myself become one with my environment, simply lying on the grass and taking in every sensation, but it's not purely perception; there's an emotional and value-based core to it.

    I'm curious what others think of this.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    this "middle ground" is sort of what my taciturn/narrator cycle theory (which is partly based on Gulenko writings) gets at.

    for example, INTj is adjacent to ESTj on the taciturn/Rational cycle. Ti- and Te+ are "the same function", i.e. Taciturn Logic or Tt.

    Tt combines with Ne+ (in INTj) and Si- (in ESTj) and so forms a middle ground between these functions.

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    Deeply emotional appreciation of beauty: NTR. Can you think of any other examples?
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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    Here's what I think: When types use their mobilizing function, it's never differentiated as it would be for someone who has it as their primary function.
    Only within the same quadra, I'd agree.

    Going by this idea, Activity partners should be superficially similar aside from the difference in clubs and Rationality/Irrationality.

    Your post rearranged:
    ENTp/ESFj: Ne+Fe (Object Subjectivity)
    ISFp/INTj: Si+Ti (Subject Objectivity)

    ESTp/ENFj: Se+Fe (Object Involvement)
    INFp/ISTj: Ni+Ti (Subject Detachment)

    ESFp/ENTj: Se+Te (Object Objectivity)
    INTp/ISFj: Ni+Fi (Subject Subjectivity)

    ENFp/ESTj: Ne+Te (Object Detachment)
    ISTp/INFj: Si+Fi (Subject Involvement)

    Field = Subject; Body = Object; Abstract = Detached; Internal = Subjective; External = Objective
    As for manifestations, I could come up with some examples as I see them, it would take a while though. For now you just have to infer/deduct from semantics.


    Context of the Information Elements:

    Alpha Extraversion
    Ethics of emotions / E / + opportunities intuition / I / - a good combination to promote new ideas, people's beliefs when choosing a decision relating to alternatives or new extraordinary opportunities out of difficult situations. Used as a method of education and skills development in children with different systems (lack of confidence in yourself and your abilities.) Characterized by a combination of ways: kvazitozhdestvennyh, sotszakaza, poludualnye, maturity, a mirage.

    Alpha Introversion
    Sensory aesthetics / S / + logic relations / L / - such a combination is needed for the rational organization of work and rest in a clear sequence for a logical and aesthetic ordering, techniques, and other works. Used to create statistical information received, reasonable and consistent solution of ecological problems. Characterized by such a combination of ways: sotszakaz, redemption, poludualnye, kvazitozhdestvennye, mirazhnye.


    Beta Extraversion
    Ethics of emotions / E / + volitional sensory / F / - combination of the emotional impact on people in extreme situations in order to raise their labor enthusiasm to overcome difficulties. This symbiosis is good for a victory over an opponent in the dispute, as psychologically able to suppress the enemy, something to interest, to impose their point of view and line of conduct, misleading or towards a certain goal. Such combinations are in relationships: the dual, activating, sotszakz, a mirage.

    Beta Introversion
    The logic of relations / L / + intuition of time / T / - combination for long-term institutional development in the spirit of the times and subject to further development plans, as well as for legal purposes in uncertain times, with changing external conditions. This may help to stabilize the situation and eliminate conflict as a result of their scientific and objective analysis of the correction. The most typical combinations with respect: sotszakaza, poludualnyh, maturity and kvazitozhdestvennyh as well - mirazhnyh.

    Gamma Extraversion

    Volitional sensory / F / + business logic / P / - a dyad provides the ability to mobilize its members well in extreme situations to perform repairs, disaster recovery, or when required, for example, that a blow. Relationships: sotszakaznye, kvazitozhdestvennye, poludualnye, maturity, dual, activation.

    Gamma Introversion
    Ethics relations / R / + intuition of time / T / - is a good combination to create a long-term relationships, cohesive teams. Used for the harmonization of relations in the creative teams for charity events, comfort the sick, care for the elderly, to relieve tension in neurotic with hypnosis, etc. autotrenninga Relationships: maturity kvazitozhdestvennye, sotszakaza, mirazhnye and poludualnye.


    Delta Extraversion
    Business logic / P / + intuition opportunities / I / -a good combination to create the innovation of various new technologies, technical inventions, repairs. Relationships: dual, activation, sotszakaza, mirazhnye.

    Delta Introversion
    Ethics relations / R / + sensory perceptions / S / - this combination is necessary in situations where diplomatic receptions are held, to create an atmosphere of rest homes, hospitals, etc., when you need to be intensified concern for people. Relationships: dual, activation, poludualnye, sotszakaza and mirazhnye.

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    Last edited by EyeSeeCold; 12-26-2011 at 02:04 AM.
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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    How Involved Field (Fi+Si) manifests, in my experience: there's a coalescence of the physical stimulus and personal value and it flows together to form a visceral emotional response. One becomes part of their environment completely. There's a scene in the movie Into the Wild, where the protagonist watches the sunset and is so overcome by emotion that he gets tears in his eyes. That scene, I think, succinctly represents what I mean.
    I haven't seen the film, but this makes sense to me. I continuously find my Si-seeking to be slaved to my Fi-ness, where the presence of something striking me Si-wise causes me to envelop myself not only in the physical experience but the emotional one as well. It would make sense for this type of IE melding to be present in other types as well, with Xi subtypes seeking out their corresponding Xi IE moreso than the Xe counterparts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    I haven't seen the film, but this makes sense to me. I continuously find my Si-seeking to be slaved to my Fi-ness, where the presence of something striking me Si-wise causes me to envelop myself not only in the physical experience but the emotional one as well. It would make sense for this type of IE melding to be present in other types as well, with Xi subtypes seeking out their corresponding Xi IE moreso than the Xe counterparts.
    why would introverted elements seek out other introverted elements rather than their dual extroverted element? i dont understand the reasoning behind this...

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    why would introverted elements seek out other introverted elements rather than their dual extroverted element? i dont understand the reasoning behind this...
    I would estimate it's because of how both dualized IEs are polar opposites in terms of information aspects, thus making them mutually inaccessible. This would mean that a Ti-leading type could not experience both Ti and Fe at the same time; while they may be two parts of the same whole, they are essentially opposites, and someone heavy on the Ti would naturally neglect the Fe side. Instead, the Ti-lead would seek out something it both desires and can still double up with: Si for Ti-NTs, Ni for Ti-STs. This could be what delineates usage of the Hidden Agenda from the dual-seeking function. I obviously haven't thought much about this hypothesis, but I like the sound of it so far.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    Galen, what you wrote made a lot of sense to me.

    Whenever I have more Fe ish conversations/actions, things I do not necessary want to say or do will slip out because Ti is "on mute". Then I have to quickly switch on Ti to rectify the situation. This maybe an example: I was at the funeral service of a friend's father last Saturday and impulsively hugged my friend who I am not really that close to when proceeded to pay last respect. His wife was standing right next to him and seemed surprised (I had seen her at a function once but I do not believe she knows me or how I know her husband. I did not hug his mother only handshake when I greeted her) so I thought I better hug her too and did it while said her name. She seemed touched and I was relieved. I am still wondering why I had the urge to hug at all in the first place. Maybe going through several funerals in the year and this one right before Christmas got to me.

    On the mobilizing front, Si comes less impulsive and definitely more thought through. I would engage in discussions of medicinal properties of food, taste and texture, etc in an analytical way but not in how it physically feels to the body beyond the senses. Or I would do a little exercise while thinking about something else.

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    There's no easy way to explain the epistemology of the types without explaining it in full detail, so give the wall of text a chance:
    Conceptually:

    Taking thinking: Thinking is both an introverted and extroverted process. So what does that mean? If one is in the process of using Ti, they are reserved from focusing their thinking on the world, and instead focused on taking in the thinking of the world and creating new types of thinking. Te is then a process of expressing or focusing Ti onto the world. Thinking relates to logos and all its forms.

    You can do this for feeling too. Feeling would relate to pathos.

    Thinking and Feeling would both include ethos.


    But you also can talk about how thinking relates to feeling or intuition to sensing (but I'm only going to use Ti and Fe for an example).
    This covers philosophical duality. Now we talk about the processes of the functions as how they relate and are influenced by their dual counterparts (similar to how there can be no good without evil).
    Ti has Fe, Fi has Te, etc. Someone who undergoes a Ti process, suppresses Fe to do so. But because they think, they can also feel. The idea that Jung seems to base everything on is that when you suppress a part of your nature, it is still there lingering and will express itself at times when you no longer have the patience or means to suppress it; so it becomes an unconscious influence. I'm pretty sure this is why he describes the unconscious dual functions as relating to neurosis because that is precisely what they would represent if they are duals of one another; he's then describing how function one-sidedness leads to problems in areas where the opposing dual function is inevitably lacking. But through experiencing neurosis, you learn firsthand about that one-sidedness and about yourself, allowing you to accept and change that (self-actualization).

    NTs all relate heavily to Ti, Te, Ni, Ne.
    STs all relate heavily to Ti, Te, Si, Se.
    etc.

    Then to talk about your model of thought, these principles of the functions need to be implemented into your model. If we add in the creative function, we need to choose a function that can balance the leading - irrational functions balance rational and intuition balances with sensing. This forms the ego of two functions. Now to understand the role that the HA plays, we should talk about how the creative function balances a type.

    For example, take EII: Fi+Ne - Fi is tied heavily to Fe and Ne is tied heavily to Ni, so:
    If an EII is heavily introverted, they are neglecting intuition (Ne/Ni), as well as extroversion, and instead focused on Fi+Si, as you say. But this would seem a neurotic state, and if not, then perhaps a precursor to neurosis.
    If an EII is more extroverted, they aren't neglecting intuition or extroversion; we have a balanced and thus fully-functioning ego, where Fi+Ni is paired with Ne+Fe.
    The nature of the superid then is only valued in so much as it allows you to philosophically understand yourself and aid you in healthy functioning. That is Jung's conceptual role in the types as a psychological aid for humanity - one that is built upon solutions to the well-thought out problems that go with philosophy of mind and a hopeful avoidance of the Psychologist's Fallacy.

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    Following from this, it seems more likely that activators reinforce each other's superid, allowing a healthy functioning ego, but one that focuses on more use of the creative function than you might have the energy for. For example, conceptually then, if an EII and SLI are together, the Si of the SLI will cause the EII to use Ne a lot (because the personal problems of Si are taken care of by another) and the Fi of the EII will cause the SLI to use Te a lot(because the personal problems of Fi are taken care of by another); the potential problem then is in putting more emphasis on the creative than the leading function, which could be said to be tiring or expecting a person to be an extrovert if they are an introvert or an introvert if they are an extrovert.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    ok, now that you've all revealed that you do in fact recognize this stuff, how about dropping the silly denial act and admitting that labcoat has been right for all these years and you should just have listened to him. cause he has really been telling you all along that this "bridge" between 1st and 6th function is there.

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