Lana Del Rey

[SpreeFirit]

Hmmm...I absolutely ADORE her.
I love the persona, vibe lyrics, everything.
I don't really think she is an IEI...I think she is an ESI.
I keep trying to buy her as a victim but...I think that is just a part of her persona. It's "put on." It's all just a show.
I think she is an aggressor. Seems more present and calculated than she is trying to let on.

[rougerogue]

Hmmm...I absolutely ADORE her.
I love the persona, vibe lyrics, everything.
I don't really think she is an IEI...I think she is an ESI.
I keep trying to buy her as a victim but...I think that is just a part of her persona. It's "put on." It's all just a show.
I think she is an aggressor. Seems more present and calculated than she is trying to let on.

LOVE LOVE LOVE the point you've made! Excellent

[Olimpia]

ESI-Fi, Sp/Sx 4w3 (496)

[Delilah]

SEI

[SpreeFirit]

LOVE LOVE LOVE the point you've made! Excellent

Hahaha thanks! yeaaaaahhh!! Whoohoo!!

[flames]

I'm not going to fight if Lana is 3w4 or 4w3, coz I'm not sure myself (as I said, I type her 3w4 sx/sp) and a bunch of other people can't tell either, but I don't think you perfectly understand where the divide between 3 and 4 lies in theory. I's not that simple and it depends on variants and sociotypes A LOT (comparing LIE 3w2 so/sx with let's say IEI 3w4 sx/sp is unrealistic). You're oversimplifying things and that's why 4's are way over-typed imho. It's like every depressed and introspective person is nowadays a 4, no matter how mainstream and basic bitchy they are. Also Lana's lyrics like Ride speak way against her being a 4. You also have over-simplified view of 3. Type 3 is not so much about achieving and being business-like as it is about image seeking in different ways - some 3's only do "prettiest" and nothing else. There's a bunch of unconventional artistic 3's (hello, Andy Warhol) and even depressed and shy 3's. Sexual 4's are EXTREMELY rare ime. I only know one person who I type sx 4 and she's exactly like descriptions and NOTHING like Lana in vibe (she's like a fiery charismatic weird ball of angry energy and competition - compared to her I, as a sx 3w4 come across as a straight out 9).

To me even the fact so many people pick up on Lana's supposed fakeness and call her a poseur speaks volumes. Which E4 artist is being called out on his/her inauthicity as much as her?

sx/sp 3 description: (oceanmoonshine)
Sexual/Self-pres
This subtype can appear almost Four-like. They can be dramatic and appear introspective, especially with the Four wing. There is an on and off quality to these Threes. They can be very emotional and then become very business like. It’s not uncommon to find this subtype in the arts, especially as actors, singers or performers. The outward sexual energy coupled with the secondary self-pres energy can cause these Threes to focus on projecting an image of themselves to the world. They will seek validation in the area of their persona. This type especially wrestles with the authenticity of the persona/image they create. On the one hand, the image protects the real self, but at the same time they hate the image they project. This subtype is likely to be in a constant state of flux when it comes to the image they project and for this reason, they run the risk of burn-out and disillusionment. They are more prone to depression than the other subtypes.
When healthier, these Threes begin to trust their intimate relationships, and begin to disentangle the real self from the flux of partial identities they create. They learn that being vulnerable is necessary if they are to get what they really want, which is to reveal the real self and trust that they are lovable even with their flaws.

Sexual Threes (according to Beatrice Chestnut)

The Sexual Three - "Charisma"

The victory or goal that the Sexual Three subtype is interested in (that expresses this Three’s vanity) is one of sex appeal and beauty rather than money or prestige-but they are just as competitive in pursuing these goals as a business executive is in work matters. In this Three, vanity is not denied (as with the Self-Preservation Three) or embraced (like the Social Three); rather, it's somewhere in between, being employed in the service of creating an attractive image and promoting important others.

The Sexual Three is sweet and shy and not as extroverted as the Social Three-especially when it comes to speaking about himself. It's hard for these Threes to promote themselves, so they often put the focus on others they want to support.

Although they are just as capable as the other Threes of achieving worldly success through competence and hard work, these Threes don't feel the need to achieve goals in the external world because their focus is much more on pleasing and making themselves attractive as a way of earning love. They see their accomplishments in the successes and happiness of the people around them.

Sexual 4's on the other hand:
Sexual Fours are usually arrogant, despite having an underlying sense of inferiority. In the face of the pain of feeling misunderstood, an arrogant attitude is adopted as overcompensation- a means of being recognized. These Fours like being part of “chosen” group, and they can be very elitist. They may refuse to feel indebted to anyone, and they may have the sense that they have the exclusive right to feel offended by the lack of consideration of others. Any criticism or reproach is seen as an affront or disqualification.



Envious anger dominates the expression of this subtype's unconscious instinctual impulses. Sexual Fours' deeper instinctual motivation is about a refusal to suffer the pain brought about by envy, and a need to reduce suffering by projecting the responsibility for meeting their needs onto others and minimizing others' accomplishments in comparison with their own.



Sexual Fours “make others suffer” because they feel that they have been made to suffer and so need some sort of compensation. They may seek to hurt or punish others as an unconscious way of repudiating or minimizing their own pain. Naranjo observes that this tendency of this Four can be summed up by the phrase, “Hurt people hurt people.” Externalizing pain helps them ease their inner sense of inferiority. Their relationship to suffering can thus best be understood as a refusal to suffer. This gets expressed as an active insistence on their needs being validated and met. (They want with anger.) More shameless than shameful, Sexual Fours are vocal about expressing their needs; they rebel against any shame connected to their desires. This subtype follows the life philosophy that “the squeaky wheel gets the grease.”

When others experience Sexual Fours as demanding, this can lead to a pattern of rejection and anger: Sexual Fours get mad when others don't meet their needs, but their demanding nature causes people to avoid or reject them, and then they get angry about being rejected. This type can thus get trapped in a vicious cycle when rejection leads to protest and protest leads to rejection.



The Sexual Four is more assertive and angrier than the other subtypes. Naranjo refers to this Four as the “mad Four” as opposed to the “sad” (Social) Four. These Fours can be very outspoken with their anger because expression of anger is their way of defending against painful feelings. When they unconsciously turn their pain into anger, they don't have to feel their pain anymore.



These Fours may even seek to hurt or punish others as a way of repudiating or minimizing their underlying pain. They feel justified in pointing to others as the source of their deprivation or frustration, which serves as both a distraction from their own role in their suffering and a plea for help and understanding.



Naranjo says that this Four subtype can be the angriest personality among the Enneagram types. They may express envious anger as a way to establish or assert power when they feel inferior at a deeper level, which can be a way to manipulate situations to their advantage. (This kind of anger was the impulse between the Frenchrevolution: “I envy the rich, so I'll organize a revolution.”) And Sexual Fours can be very impulsive. They want things immediately and have little tolerance for frustration.

Naranjo calls this type “Competition,” and Ichazo called it “Hate.” While this type can be both hateful and competitive, it is important to remember that the competition and hate expressed by this Four represents a deeper need to project their sense of suffering and inadequacy outward. The painful sense of envy felt by the Sexual Four can motivate a wishing with anger, or a sense of “Ive got to get what I need, both to convince myself that my needs aren't shameful, and to feel better about myself with respect to others.” Their competitiveness and anger is a compensation for and a defense against the hurt they feel underneath.



These Fours like and need emotional intensity. Without intensity, everything can seem unbearably dull and boring. When Sexual Fours want somebody's love, they can be very direct about asking for what they need, or can become “extraordinary”- make themselves seem special and attractive and superior- in an effort to attract it. In line with their natural intensity (fueled by both their heart-based emotional temperament and their sexual instinct), these individuals tend to be more present and available in relationships because they don't deny or avoid many of the factors that can inhibit others relationally, like anger, neediness, competitiveness, arrogance, and having to be liked all the time. However, at times it may prove difficult for them to maintain a loving attitude because they confuse sweetness and benevolence with being false or insincere.



Sexual Fours are most likely to be confused with Type Eights or Sexual Twos. Like Eights, they have easier access to anger than most types, but they differ from Eights in the wider range of emotions they regularly feel. Naranjo points out that Eights often don't need to get angry, whereas this Four frequently feels misunderstood or envious, so they may show anger more often. They can also look like Sexual “Aggressive-Seductive” Twos (because both types can be aggressive and seductive in relationships) but the Sexual Two is more oriented toward pleasing others.

I totally agree with this. I think her fakeness is obvious and the fact that so many people claim her to be fake should lead to a questioning of her being a 4 in general. She could still be 4w3 but for now I lean 3w4. She hasn't shown any envy either. She seems more like a peacock showing off its feathers in vanity which is 3 more than anything. Just because someone sings about feelings doesn't make them a 4 (many 3 artists do it, especially 3w4).

As for socionics, ESI seems to be the right ballpark.

[ashlesha]

I got the impression her fakeness was sort of ironic or something, like it's never bothered me because it seems like the fact that it's so obvious is part of the show, like almost a mockery of what she's emulating? Not that into her music tho, except a couple songs like fucked my way up to the top are guilty pleasures. Anyway, I don't know her type, esi isn't an obvious typing for her as far as I'm concerned but I wouldn't rule it out.

[happytobestraining]

I got the impression her fakeness was sort of ironic or something, like it's never bothered me because it seems like the fact that it's so obvious is part of the show, like almost a mockery of what she's emulating? Not that into her music tho, except a couple songs like fucked my way up to the top are guilty pleasures. Anyway, I don't know her type, esi isn't an obvious typing for her as far as I'm concerned but I wouldn't rule it out.

To me it is funny that she is shedding the feigned melancholic persona for a more normal and balanced disposition. *shrugs* She actually smiles on her latest album cover.

[Boris78]

Hi! I think Lana Del Rey type is : ESFP-L

Myers-Briggs : ESFP-L (Limbic, not Calm) (E) 92,5% (S) 80% (F) 92,5% (P) 98,75%

Big Five/OCEAN : SLUAN

Enneagram: 2w3(sw1w2) Ennatype 2 - Level 7

Socionics : SEE

Disc : (IS) Influencial, Steady

Don Riso Subtype : The Impulsive Escapist

[Myst]

Wow. So I just watched it myself and she seems to be very devaluing ... talking so much about choosing clips for her video only because of aesthetics.. no meaning behind anything, etc. Just beauty, how colours look.. SEI seems too simple of a typing though. She actually doesn't appear to show too much in my opinion.

I actually think she does show Fe. The Ni devaluing seems right: ESE.

[empineer]

This is strange. She gives Delta vibe to me and my LSE friend loves her music. I always thought the mystery in her music must be EII vibe. She herself might be IEI, no idea. Haven't watched any interviews

[PrettySavage]

Jesus this thread is the physical proof that the exact same Intuitive bias that is the cancer of MBTI is also present in Socionics. The woman is the most glaring LIE seeking ESI ever to grace pop music, and yet people will go to lengths through pages and pages to proof she's an Intuitive. Because she "oozes ", right? She has deep eyes, so she's IEI...no.

ESI-Se 3w4 SX/SP


She's a genius at self marketing, her image building skills are top notch. And though she's a weak vocalist technically speaking, she's quite of a voice actress. She makes her songs come alive and paints a picture that stays with you long after the song is over.

[Sol]

pages to proof she's an Intuitive. Because she "oozes ", right?

because she's intuitively felt such, for example
EIE

[PrettySavage]

because she's intuitively felt such, for example
EIE

As usual your grammar is atrocious, no idea what you mean and whatever it is, you're wrong.

[Sol]

As usual your grammar is atrocious

As usual you and others may understand me clearly and you have nothing singificant to say she's not EIE.

[PrettySavage]

As usual you and others may understand me clearly and you have nothing singificant to say she's not EIE.

[someoneaskedmetofly]

As usual your grammar is atrocious, no idea what you mean and whatever it is, you're wrong.

You really don't undestand that? Maybe I've learnt Sol-speak.

[PrettySavage]

You really don't undestand that? Maybe I've learnt Sol-speak.

I'm sure you did, you crows are talented with languages. I am too but they have to make sense, and I'm new.

[someoneaskedmetofly]

I'm sure you did, you crows are talented with languages. I am too but they have to make sense, and I'm new.

I'm not a native speaker, but I actually think that sentence was grammatically correct.
'Because she's intuitively felt such' in other words 'Because she has intuitively felt as such'
It's awkward, but not broken.
In the end it doesn't make a difference just that it was the awkwardness that confused you.

[PrettySavage]

I'm not a native speaker, but I actually think that sentence was grammatically correct.
'Because she's intuitively felt such' in other words 'Because she has intuitively felt as such'
It's awkward, but not broken.

True, I've seen much worse from him, I can see what you mean. But the EIE one? Translate it for me please, does it mean he actually doesn't think she is and just threw it out there?

[someoneaskedmetofly]

True, I've seen much worse from him, I can see what you mean. But the EIE one? Translate it for me please, does it mean he actually doesn't think she is and just threw it out there?

Well, as far as I can tell, he's saying he based his EIE typing off an intuitive impression of her.

[PrettySavage]

Well, as far as I can tell, he's saying he based his EIE typing off an intuitive impression of her.

Thanks for your service and lol.

[someoneaskedmetofly]

Thanks for your service and lol.

That'll be 20$.
I don't do this for free ya kno.















Cheapskate

[PrettySavage]

The most ESI 4w3 Sx/Sp thing I've ever seen:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...violence-album

[HERO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r80n4goqwDQ

Lana Del Rey (Elizabeth Woolridge Grant): IEI-Fe? or IEI-Ni? (Creative? subtype)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKdJnnPdFww









We both know the history of violence that surrounds you, but I’m not scared; there’s nothing to lose now that I've found you

- The only Lana Del Rey album that Robert Christgau likes is Honeymoon:

http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_a...e=lana+del+rey

Honeymoon [Polydor/Interscope, 2015]
Presumably anybody who thinks her shtick has stagnated is too embarrassed to pay attention, because without doubt it's evolved. Subtly, OK, but the slowing tempos at least are hard to miss, and they go with the subtle part: the changing ways she's portrayed both herself and the objects of her affection over the past four years. Initially she enacted rockish boy-toy masochism--a pretty girl who got wet for an entire casting call of rough trade sugar daddies. But the third album of her tuneful, bonus-studded catalogue stars the torchy femme fatale who always lurked underneath, and by now half the objects of her exploitation are pretty clearly jerks. Born-to-lie Mr. Born to Lose is a game to her--she never bought into his bullshit. "Salvatore," who could be based on her real-life Italian boyfriend for all I know, is auto-crooned so close to the edge of parody I wish she'd figured out how to sneak in the moon hitting her eye like a big pizza pie. But the biggest breakthrough is Lana herself on "God Knows I Tried," where the artist born Lizzy Grant cops to her real-life fame and interrupts the come-ons to swear, "I feel free when I see no one." You never know--this dame might write a love song we can believe in someday. . . . A-

[Hermit Soul]

Damn, I love her. All those Se.

She is an ESI.

[myresearch]

You can find lots of conflicting opinions on this thread: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...2-Lana-Del-Rey

She looks like ESI at first but I think I hear Fi demonstrative - Fe creative in her intonation:

[vesstheastralsilky]

She could be SEI like me.

[Olimpia]

I type her as ESI-Fi Sp/Sx 4w3 (496)

[Blue]

Yeah, just because everyone thinks she's an ISFP then they say she's a ESI. I get more of a IEI/EIE vibe from her.

[Heart]

Lana Del Rey, SEI-Fe

[Blue]

Lana Del Rey, SEI-Fe

Yes, she's so Fe. Not Fi.

[Breather]

How is she a 4?

[Breather]

I'd say SEI-Fe 6 maybe

[khcs]

Lana Del Rey - Extroverted

[Cybernetic]

People in this thread have very strong opinions about Lana, haha.

[Breather]

SEI 6w5-2w3-9w8

[PussyInASarcophagus]

Read her lyrics. She's Gamma as fuck. Either ESI or SEE.

[Alonzo]

^^^cosign. Obviously Gamma, and according to the lyrics, most likely an ESI seeing as how the depictions of the objects of her affection are LIES in everything but name.

[user123]

esi