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Thread: I no longer believe in socionics

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    Default I no longer believe in socionics

    I have been interested in personality ever since I took a personality test all the way back in highschool. That was the grade 13 retreat which was in 2003, so I have been interested for about 8 years. Back then I originally scored as an INFP, which was based on the Myer-Briggs test. However, I kept reviewing the description and had this feeling like this was not really who I am, especially when I read the descriptions for INTJ and INTP. I found the INTP and INTJ descriptions attractive because they mentioned how smart those personalities are and at that time I really wished I was smart. However Myer-Briggs was only the beginning, once I discovered socionics that opened up a whole new way of looking at myself and people. They were actually saying that two personalities are actually better for each other than another. Previously, Myer-Briggs had mentioned that someone with the complete opposite personality to your own would be your soul mate but that was only a pleasant impression.

    As I became more familiar with socionics I kept questioning my type. I kept self-analysing instead of just living life. Ironically I was being very much unlike myself because I kept acting so self-conscious. Like I had to be consistent with the personality type I believed myself to be. These days I'm much more self-assured and careless. I felt like there would be grave consequences if I made a mistake about who I am. Now I do not care as much. I see myself as a INTJ in socionics and I went through a long road of self-discovery before finding myself. Once I was assured of my type I becamse more interested in other people's type and especially finding my dual. There was a gradual transformation as I became more acquinted with the personality types and to some extent even getting bored with reading the descriptions repeated.

    I had really invested a great deal of time and study into learning socionics and of course I figured the payoff would be meeting the right women for me. I would type a girl and when things seemed to be going good I figured that is proof that socionics is reality and not just a theory. However when we had a mishap or fight then I would dismiss the credibility of socionics. Essentially I could not reconcile the conflict between me and my love interest and socionics. Then I would begin to doubt her type or my type. We do not get along perfectly so she is not my dual. I would continue this cycle until accepting that even your dual may not be your perfect match and they will do human acts that you youself can not love. Moreso I realise I live in a world where socionics is not common sense. A stereotype or rumour or lie is more believable than socionics. Socionics is a lovely theory but reality does not reflect the harmonization that socionics and duality present. There is a split between socioinics and real life experience. Socionics is somewhat utopian in it's ambition to educate the masses into making the right choice when choosing a partner, or friends, or business assosciates, etc.

    Though I do not believe I have become cycnical or misanthrope. Simply socionics is a perspective that may or may not explain the human dimension. I am now at the point where I just no longer care. I have stopped looking at women in terms of socionic types. I see them more like they see themselves because you must realise socionics inhibits real empathetic interaction with people right before your eyes. For the longest time I would revert all thought and behaviour, my own or another, to socionics. I would say I was obsessed with it to such an extent that my actions and decisions were based on it. I am an INTJ so I must like that or I can not do that because I am an INTJ. There was a real restriction that likely was nothing more than the ego suppressing all spontaneous action into inhibition. I would say a deep prejudice had formed in the conscious that rendered myself inept. Socionics had taken the fun out of life!

    These days I live in korea and I am learning korean. The purpose of learning korean involes motivation to meet a korean girl and hopfully to meet a girl who will be my girlfriend. I have met so many women and along with meeting so many different people that I can not really see how socionics makes sense. I no longer believe in socionics. I see it as an interesting theory on personality that can be taken lightly, something you can discuss with friends, but I realize there is an inherent danger in talking about personality theory especially when you have duality and conflict. I mean I have some good friends who are my conflicts and how am I to tell them how great this theory is when we look at the facts and well we're conflicting. Likewise, I have so many potential dual partners who are already dating my friends that would disrupt the whole scene. I mean if people knew what I knew then that might fuck things up big time for alot of people. Why? because who would want to hear that their not dating their dual partner or their dating their conflictor or married to their mirror, etc. For that very reason I could understand many people dismissing the credibility of socionics since empirical evidence suggests the opposite of what socioinics predicts. I mean perhaps it is not a serious relationship but I imagine that would alter the course of people's behviour. I feel like I'm interfering with the way things are and in some respects I can see that benefitting people in that maybe they make a good choice but at the same time I realize I could be acting very selfish.

    As another point when you read an interesting article like why some men prefer brunettes more than blondes and your friend mentions he met a really cool brunette then you relate it to what you read because it's relevant but in all the time that I have been reading about personality never have I been able to simply say oh I read this personality theory that describes what your going through and they can say: "oh yeah! cool" without having to read copiuous amounts of socionic articles and other subtheories.

    So I no longer believe in socionics but instead it is a secret in respect to the fact that maybe just maybe you know better and yet you can not act nor interfer. I suppose as many people believe if your meant to be then your meant to be regardless of socionics. I mean if socionics is a genuwine explanation then it will happen because that is reality. So to anyone reading this, I'm doing my best to forget socionics and just try to be a human being without any theorhetical justification needed. Thankyou and good night.

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    Socially and intellectually socionics is crude, unsophisticated, ugly, unskillful, unsexy, inelegant, unnatural, rude and pathetic.

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    socionics is one of the ultimate ways of shutting down your senses and out the world

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    Much easier to dismiss socionics than to accept responsibility for your relationships.

    Imho, socionics was never intended to be the be-all end-all predictor of the outcome of human relationships. I've always believed a balance of socionics, mixed with a healthy dose of reality, is an effective combination.

    If you feel you've been lacking in reality, and just being yourself, then I think a break is great for you. I wouldn't, however, stop believing in socionics, because you haven't found the right woman for you yet.

    Good luck to you man.

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    I approve. Big time. Socionics works half the time for me, but overall it is far from perfect. And even if it WAS perfect, who would want to live THAT kind of world? I'm out forever, peace.

  7. #7
    Creepy-Snaps

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    Quote Originally Posted by gooey View Post
    Socionics works half the time for me
    Lol. The theory of socionics didn't work for you? If calculus only works for you half the time, do you stop believing in calculus? If college doesn't work for you, do you stop believing in college? Have you thought that maybe your propensity to work, study, learn, and master, is the deciding variable between things 'working out for you', and you MAKING them work out for you?

    Leaving socionics because it 'didn't work out for you', after being here for 3 months? That's ridiculous. Good luck drifting from distraction to distraction in life, until you find your true passion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    Lol. The theory of socionics didn't work for you? If calculus only works for you half the time, do you stop believing in calculus? If college doesn't work for you, do you stop believing in college? Have you thought that maybe your propensity to work, study, learn, and master, is the deciding variable between things 'working out for you', and you MAKING them work out for you?

    Leaving socionics because it 'didn't work out for you', after being here for 3 months? That's ridiculous. Good luck drifting from distraction to distraction in life, until you find your true passion.


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    cunnilingus epilepsy inducer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    Much easier to dismiss socionics than to accept responsibility for your relationships.
    Dismissing socionics is accepting responsibility for your relationships. With socionics relationships are defined by the implied mechanistic certitude, without socionics you rely on your natural wits. The same natural wits our forefathers have been using to get laid for generations with great success.

    Imho, socionics was never intended to be the be-all end-all predictor of the outcome of human relationships.
    What it was "intended to be" and how people react to it are two different things.

    The theory of socionics didn't work for you? If calculus only works for you half the time, do you stop believing in calculus? If college doesn't work for you, do you stop believing in college? Have you thought that maybe your propensity to work, study, learn, and master, is the deciding variable between things 'working out for you', and you MAKING them work out for you?
    Calculus and college are have been tried and tested for bringing someone to a specific objective goal; you get an equation correct or you get a degree.

    Calculus and college has worked for millions, it can work for you.

    Socionics on the other hand has not had the chance to stand the test of time and it officially doesn't have a specific objective goal; socionics is only a few decades old and typing methods differ between socionists.

    You don't know how well socionics has worked for others, it might not work for you.

    In terms of credibility and risk putting your faith in socionics is very different from putting your faith in college or calculus.

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    i think socionics is real, but onlY as real as far as abstract theories go. i've seen it in work, but i wouldn't give the intertYpe relations as theY are written out now in descriptions too much credit based on mY irl interactions. when i was in highschool and on vYvanse all the time i was heavilY into socionics, but when i started tripping acid & such i realized it's just a sillY little sYstem in the grand scheme of things. You can try and applY it to Your life but it aint nothing to stress over, which most people seem to be doing here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip View Post
    I no longer believe in socionics. I see it as an interesting theory on personality that can be taken lightly, something you can discuss with friends, but I realize there is an inherent danger in talking about personality theory especially when you have duality and conflict. I mean I have some good friends who are my conflicts and how am I to tell them how great this theory is when we look at the facts and well we're conflicting.
    Yes, I agree 100%. Socionics is fine as a theory, but the application of it still leaves a lot to be desired for exactly the reasons you've stated. In application, it ultimately leads to disappointment.

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    "I kept self-analysing instead of just living life."

    "I had really invested a great deal of time and study into learning socionics and of course I figured the payoff would be meeting the right women for me."

    "The purpose of learning korean involes motivation to meet a korean girl and hopfully to meet a girl who will be my girlfriend."

    Why did you need to believe in socionics in the first place?

    Anyways, I seriously doubt you have actually stopped believing in socionics, you might not come back here again or what not, but you won't be able to actually extricate yourself from the idea that someone is or isn't your "dual". This idea is sticky and actually a idea that is deeply rooted in the psyche and observed long before socionics. It's the idea of a soulmate, a anima/animus that will complete us.

    You might not believe in socionics, or say you don't but from everything you're saying and all the things you do in order to feel complete, you've got a long way to go before you'll settle for just anyone. Good luck tho, and I mean this quite seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    i think socionics is real, but onlY as real as far as abstract theories go. i've seen it in work, but i wouldn't give the intertYpe relations as theY are written out now in descriptions too much credit based on mY irl interactions. when i was in highschool and on vYvanse all the time i was heavilY into socionics, but when i started tripping acid & such i realized it's just a sillY little sYstem in the grand scheme of things. You can try and applY it to Your life but it aint nothing to stress over, which most people seem to be doing here.
    Str8 knowledge right there.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

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    Under cerulean skies...

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    Duals make for better business partners than partners in marriage.

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    It is because you can't type.

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    I no longer believe in socionics
    Sounds like gamma to me.

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    I get where Chip is coming from. While I wouldn't say that I no longer "believe in socionics", I definitely have scaled back my interest in it, and I did it for broadly similar reasons. Constantly thinking about what type people are can get in the way of your ability to deal with others as real, complete individuals. It doesn't have to work this way, but it does for many people. And this is understandable. Everyone wants to make sense of their own identity and their interactions with others. So when your brain offers up some sort of socionic explanation for why someone responded to you or someone else the way they did, you feel inclined to accept it if you can justify it somehow. But then you go back and look and realize that the mental availability of socionics obscured a lot of other potentially relevant information and ideas.

    Still, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Studying socionics affected me in ways far beyond the acquisition of esoteric knowledge on an arcane personality philosophy:

    • It taught me how to consider the differences in the way people perceive reality more effectively.
    • It exposed me to a wealth of other ideas about psychology, sociology, &c.
    • It gave me a community of people that like discussing how people think.
    • It necessitated the development of a much more coherent epistemology on my part.


    I suppose none of these things are necessarily intrinsic to socionics, but they are there and they are still valuable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chip View Post
    We do not get along perfectly so she is not my dual.
    LOL YOU FORGOT SUBTYPES BRO!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agee View Post
    It is because you can't type.
    LOL this comment cracked me up. So brief and to the point.

    Going through a cycle of paralysis by analysis of personality theories wont find anyone a successful relationship.

    Socionics is real. I see the intertype relations playing out every day. Many other factors however contribute to a successful romantic relationship. Timing, geography, opportunity, culture, religion, values, social status etc


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    Lol I love how people say they "believe" or don't "believe" in socionics -- it seems like an odd choice of words to me, socionics isn't a dogma/creed/faith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chip View Post
    I am now at the point where I just no longer care. I have stopped looking at women in terms of socionic types.

    So to anyone reading this, I'm doing my best to forget socionics and just try to be a human being without any theorhetical justification needed.
    Good for you! Enjoy the company of your friends for who they are and be who you are.

    Come back when you are ready.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    Lol I love how people say they "believe" or don't "believe" in socionics -- it seems like an odd choice of words to me, socionics isn't a dogma/creed/faith.
    You choose to believe in it in order to use it

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    I don't see socionics as the One Way to view relationships or The Answer to all relational problems; I don't think I ever have, really. Neither do I really see it as a source of direction, per se. It's more about a point of information, an explanation of why people might think and behave as they do. Which can inform my decisions perhaps, but I usually hardly think about it at all when I'm interacting with people, except sometimes as, "Oh, maybe that's why I feel this way around this person" and the like.

    Anyway, if you've decided to forget it for awhile and just focus on your own skills that's probably a good idea. Like a couple people alluded to, "belief" seems... overly strong? and slightly... misguided? It's a set of ideas about how people deal with information, not a doctrine or dogma.
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    This is a common thing for INTjs to do. To say some things are meant to be and then throw some spiritual lingo on it. You're right in line with your type or what is commonly done from people of your type, now, knowing that, how does that make you believe about your beliefs?

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    Socionics is a lovely theory but reality does not reflect the harmonization that socionics and duality present. There is a split between socioinics and real life experience.
    Yes it does, you just are refusing to fall in love for whatever reason. It's no big deal really, but when you do and if you analyze your life, you will probably see how the person you fell in love with makes a lot of sense socionically-speaking.

    But it doesn't matter, it's not really something to stress out about either way.

    Real life is hard and painful, but there's still a balance with harmonious relationships. My parents were in a very happy dual marriage for years until my dad died. For me there wasn't really any split.

    One person can't be your everything and I don't think socionics makes that claim.

    Once you understand socionics and read all the articles, I agree it can be boring. Perhaps you just got 'too into it' and it wore out its welcome. Isn't everything like that though? If I do nothing but play this one video game for hours upon hours, it's bound to get REALLY boring and I want nothing to do with it....

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    don't see socionics as the One Way to view relationships or The Answer to all relational problems; I don't think I ever have, really. Neither do I really see it as a source of direction, per se.
    *sigh* Yeah, socionics is what it is. It's not the anti-christ or the savior of humanity, it just basically describes things that I already knew in more interesting ways. It's only 'layman unfriendly' if you choose to see it that way, I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    Lol I love how people say they "believe" or don't "believe" in socionics -- it seems like an odd choice of words to me, socionics isn't a dogma/creed/faith.
    It is an interesting choice of words, but I think it's apt since a the word "believe" is thrown a lot around with theories like evolution, climate change, vaccines causing autism...
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    I've heard different opinions on how well socionics works, if it works or not. From my experience it works really well. I feel mentally closer and comfortable with those of my quadra. In the past couple years I've been able to understand Alphas and Gammas a lot more, understand where and why we differ in opinion and perception, what middleground I can find with them, what not to misinterpret them saying or doing, going along with some of their functional confidences, which all makes a lot of difference relationally or just finding more compatible friends long term. I understand why one of my old best friends was tons of fun, similar humor, just really easy to connect and understand without conflict like other friends have been. It's essentially been for me a new way to look at people and those of my past, a knew knowledge that's helped me understand these natural differences, and will likely lead to many positive adjustments both interpretively and connectively. I'd definitely like to see myself with a dual long term.

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    son, i am disappoint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octo View Post
    It is an interesting choice of words, but I think it's apt since a the word "believe" is thrown a lot around with theories like evolution, climate change, vaccines causing autism...
    Yea that's kind of the point, notice how politics are involved in each of those issues, but you never hear someone saying they believe in d'almberts principle or maxwell's equations or gauss's law, its only the scientific theories where there are politics involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    Lol I love how people say they "believe" or don't "believe" in socionics -- it seems like an odd choice of words to me, socionics isn't a dogma/creed/faith.
    I think he means it in the sense of submitting to its authority and utilising it in practice to better his life. If you make the assumption that socionics has the goal of bringing you to social/relationship harmony (which many people do) then socionics can be seen as something very close to a faith.
    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy View Post


    I suppose none of these things are necessarily intrinsic to socionics, but they are there and they are still valuable.
    If none of these things are intrinsic to socionics why continue to study socionics?

    Funny how the only good thing about socionics isn't socionics itself, but things you can learn or get exposure to in other safer ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    I don't see socionics as the One Way to view relationships or The Answer to all relational problems; I don't think I ever have, really. Neither do I really see it as a source of direction, per se. It's more about a point of information, an explanation of why people might think and behave as they do.
    And those explanations act as predictions of whether or not a job or a profession will be right for you, your boyfriend will make a good husband or if you will remain friends with your best friend etc. Socionics gives answers to important life questions and with a sense of scientism, giving you the impression that decisions are being made correctly. A soon as you accept socionics to be true you immediately start to put it into practice, the more desperate and hopeless your life is the more you rely on socionics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    It's more about a point of information, an explanation of why people might think and behave as they do. Which can inform my decisions perhaps, but I usually hardly think about it at all when I'm interacting with people.
    Really well put. My thoughts exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by leckysupport View Post
    A soon as you accept socionics to be true you immediately start to put it into practice, the more desperate and hopeless your life is the more you rely on socionics.
    Haha, what can you say about somebody who doesn't put into practice?

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    cunnilingus epilepsy inducer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Haha, what can you say about somebody who doesn't put into practice?
    Everybody does, some rely on it more than others. Socionics due to its life focus cannot be seen as stale knowledge.

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    Yea that's kind of the point, notice how politics are involved in each of those issues, but you never hear someone saying they believe in d'almberts principle or maxwell's equations or gauss's law, its only the scientific theories where there are politics involved.
    I think it's the other way around, since "believe" surrounds any scientific theory where there's controversy e.g. string theory - it's more that if something has some degree of ambiguity and "belief" can be involved, then the issue tends to become politicised, rather than political issues leading to the use of "believe", which seems to be what you're suggesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leckysupport View Post
    Everybody does, some rely on it more than others. Socionics due to its life focus cannot be seen as stale knowledge.
    Alright, if everybody doest that, then I don't know what seems to be the problem here

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    cunnilingus epilepsy inducer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Alright, if everybody doest that, then I don't know what seems to be the problem here
    The problem is socionics is a revolting practice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leckysupport View Post
    The problem is socionics is a revolting practice.
    And you're making it better by posting on here. Makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octo View Post
    I think it's the other way around, since "believe" surrounds any scientific theory where there's controversy e.g. string theory - it's more that if something has some degree of ambiguity and "belief" can be involved, then the issue tends to become politicised, rather than political issues leading to the use of "believe", which seems to be what you're suggesting.
    I disagree I think its exactly politics that injects the concept of belief/non-belief, of course theories have ambiguity -- but the concept of a theory is more along the lines of "evidence suggests this is a true assertion until proven different", that's what distinguishes a science from a faith. People will use theories because they are useful but in science its with a sort of skepticism, because in any given application you may encounter the exception that breaks the rule.

    http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemis.../lawtheory.htm

    Quote Originally Posted by Theory
    A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. A theory is valid as long as there is no evidence to dispute it.
    That's the difference between theory and belief, a theory isn't something people hold with conviction, its just an assertion which happens to remain disproven and thus is considered the most useful practical body of knowledge available until potentially overthrown by conflicting evidence.

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    If you cannot separate type from personality, relation, behavior, habits, quirks, common goals, dreams, motivations, interests, humour, background, and other myriad of factors that contribute in forming human relations, ur doing it wrong.

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    I disagree I think its exactly politics that injects the concept of belief/non-belief, of course theories have ambiguity -- but the concept of a theory is more along the lines of "evidence suggests this is a true assertion until proven different", that's what distinguishes a science from a faith. People will use theories because they are useful but in science its with a sort of skepticism, because in any given application you may encounter the exception that breaks the rule.

    http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemis.../lawtheory.htm

    That's the difference between theory and belief, a theory isn't something people hold with conviction, its just an assertion which happens to remain disproven and thus is considered the most useful practical body of knowledge available until potentially overthrown by conflicting evidence.
    I know exactly what a scientific theory is, but that's irrelevant to anything we're talking about. Basically my point is that since scientific theories exist which use the word "believe", but aren't politicised, and most likely never will be, I don't think politicisation is what causes the use of the word "believe".

    The word "believe" in common usage often has very little to do with the concept of a "belief", in terms of faith i.e. the 5th definition here. In scientific articles and seminars, "believe" is kind of the default word choice when something makes sense according to the current understanding but you can't be bothered to verify it with additional experiments, e.g. "We believe this anomalous result is due to uncontrolled temperature fluctuations." It's kind of a weaker synonym for "this is most likely due to". But since it's harder to say "most likely due to" when your theory isn't too sound, the word "believe" pops up more with less substantiated theories, regardless of politics/faith etc. Less substantiated theories are also easier to politicise e.g. you don't see too much politicisation of the Young Earth theory since there's overwhelming evidence otherwise, but evolution is still politicised.

    In other words, politicisation and the use of the word "believe" aren't directly linked causally, they're both correlated to how substantiated a scientific theory is.

    Sorry for derailment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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