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Thread: Difference between enneagram type 2 and 4

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    Arrow Difference between enneagram type 2 and 4

    I can't tell if I am 2w1 or 4.
    I was pretty set on 2w1 for 6 months+ but it seems less clear. Things are just overlapping. I don't know

    Elaborating:
    I am very nurturing and caring (which is probably going to make more people type me SEI lmao) particularly towards children. I think it roots back to my own rocky childhood though. When I'm around my niece and nephews, I am trying to provide them with stability and happiness that I know they probably aren't getting elsewhere. (It's hard to give the full story but basically my sisters are shitty parents and I've half raised their children.) And I love doing things that will make them smile. BUT this could also be a part of my 4 identity.

    Another thing is ... Giving/receiving. Before I moved to Florida I was living with my sisters and kind of my mom and although I was working like 50 hours a week with hardly any bills I never had money. Why? Well... About $200 to my mom each month (another thing I don't feel like explaining but she was a mess and had lost her possessions), gifts, giving my friends money (because they had more important things to pay for than I did), on top of buying them lunch fairly often... It made me happy knowing they didn't have to worry but after awhile I felt unappreciated, which is why I bring up the next point.

    Disintegrating into 8! The worst thing about me, but you only see if you are close to me, otherwise you would never suspect it. I've noticed this in me since I was about 5 - how manipulative, controlling, possessive, bossy, and mostly just DEMANDING I could be. I certainly don't do it on purpose... It just comes out. Disintegration into 8 + strong, even though it's not valued, Fi demonstrative just creates an invincible monster. This is one huge reason I don't think I'm a 4. 4's are a lot more whiny - I'm not whiny at all, just demanding.

    Vices: And in this area, 4's vice of envy makes a lot more sense than 2's vice of pride.

    IDK!!! There was more that I wanted to post but this is long and I don't remember right now and I'm tired. anyways - can anyone give input?

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    I think 2 maybe.

    You have such a big heart Jenna. You're so sweet, caring and giving. <3

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    I want Jenna to be MY girlfriend.

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    You sound pretty two, from the info you gave - more people focused, willing to help at the expense of yourself, etc.

    Have you read info on two-four misidentifications?

    Two - Four

    Engaging - Withdrawn
    Rescues - Want to be rescued
    Focus on others - Focus on self
    Unaware of self - Introspective
    Altruists - Individualists
    Understanding - Misunderstood
    Extroverted - Introverted
    Positive - Negative
    Feel superior - Feel inferior
    Loving - Ambivalent

    Twos and Fours can be confused primarily because they are both Feeling types, and because they both put great emphasis on the ups and downs of their personal relationships. Even with these similarities, however, these two types are seldom mistaken for each other. When they are, it is usually because they are defining the types too narrowly. For instance, some Twos might mistype themselves as Fours if they have been through a depression or have recently been through the end of an important relationship. They may learn that Fours are a depressive type and deduce that since they have been depressed that they are probably Fours. In fact, all nine types can be depressed: feeling sad or alienated in itself is not an indication of being any particular type. Twos may also hear that Fours are romantic, and seeing themselves as romantic mistype themselves. Female Fours who have been reared in traditional or strongly religious environments may identify themselves as Twos, but this is a danger for woman of all types. Some Fours may also have been under stress for a while may similarly recognize many Two-ish behaviors.
    Their differences are not difficult to recognize, however. Twos tend to move toward others and engage them, sometimes excessively. Fours tend to withdraw from others, while hoping that others will seek them out. Twos look for people to rescue, Fours look for someone to rescue them. Twos are very aware of others' feelings, but tend to be unaware of their own motivations and needs. Fours are highly attuned to their own emotional states, but can fail to recognize their impact on others, and so forth.

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    Dolphin & BnD - aww thanks lol, I <3 you guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Aerorobyn View Post
    You sound pretty two, from the info you gave - more people focused, willing to help at the expense of yourself, etc.

    Have you read info on two-four misidentifications?
    Engaging - Withdrawn - eh, I can be both, kind of ties in with extraverted / introverted.
    Rescues - Want to be rescued - this one is tough. Romantically, I want to be rescued, but in every other case I'm doing the rescuing.
    Focus on others - Focus on self
    Unaware of self - Introspective
    Altruists - Individualists
    Understanding - Misunderstood
    Extroverted - Introverted - I am both. I'm not the life of the party by any means, but I can start conversations with others kind of easily. However, I'm also very quiet in many social situations. It's about 50/50, I guess. (which is why I consider myself to have a 1 wing)
    Positive - Negative
    Feel superior - Feel inferior - neither but if I had to choose one, I would say superior because I certainly don't feel superior.
    Loving - Ambivalent
    I've read a bit about it but I still can't make a conclusion.


    To finish up from last night ..
    My dad (LSE) has been the main person that makes me disintegrate. Our relationship has just been terrible, though we are working on it. I have always felt like he just.. Doesn't care. We used to get in a lot of fights until a couple of years ago when I told him that if he continued to act how he had been, I would discontinue all contact with him, but it wouldn't be just me - since I am nice and caring towards others, everyone will choose my side, and eventually he is going to die a lonely old man. (a lot more was said obviously but that was the jist of it.) This is an example of how manipulative I can be. What he was doing was wrong, but there are times when I am stressed that I lash out at someone who doesn't deserve it. I create obstacles that are bound to fail, thus making it impossible for me to be satisfied. This is the most unhealthy thing I do, kind of ties into being demanding. But this kind of seems like a 4 thing too.



    I'm not as intrusive or overbearing as the descriptions say though. And I don't think I am proud, but maybe I just don't realize it. I'm actually not even remembering the reasons I was considering 4 again... Oops lol.. I guess the more I write this the more likely 2 seems... *feels dumb*

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    Introverted 2 is very unlikely. 2s are usually extroverted feelers (ExFx).

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    2w1, not 2w3.
    2w3 is extraverted, 2w1 can be either. I wouldn't say it's very unlikely.

    If you are the Enneagram Type 2 with the 1 Wing, you desire to appear elegant.* You see yourself as graceful, healthy, appropriate and efficient.
    Twos with a dominant One wing
    Such Twos could also be called "Good Samaritans" as they are willing to do thankless tasks that others avoid. They often work as teachers; in healing professions; pastoral ministry or with the poor, handicapped or mentally challenged In more average psychological states they may struggle with their "selfish" feelings. They can be dutiful, 'proper' and perfectionistic. They may become emotionally restrained and dislike drawing attention to themselves whilst still wanting to feel important in other people's lives. They can become very hard on themselves and neglect their health by denying their personal needs and trying to be a martyr.
    This wing brings conscience and emotional containment to the basic Two style. When healthy, they act from general principles about the value of serving others. Ethics come before pride. May hold themselves to high standards. More discreet and respectful of other people's boundaries. When upset, tend to go quiet and experience strong emotions internally. More melancholy than Twos with a 3 wing. When less healthy and entranced, tend to confuse their sense of mission with self-centered needs. Go blind to their own motives; invade and dominate others. Believe their actions are perfectly justified by their ethic of helping. May repress their personal desires and focus on others as a way to avoid guilty dilemma between the rules and their inner needs. If really blind they will warp their ethics crazily to justify personal selfishness and prideful hostility.

    None of this seems incompatible with being introverted.

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    I think a lot of it has to do with the biased and prejudiced way the enneagram authors write about 4s. They make it out to be that being a 4 is the same thing as having AIDS or something? its like lol, wtf. It's like that guy on those audio files on that one enneatype site, talks about 4s in such a hateful way in his voice. They talk about 2s in a lot more neutral way, and there's always tons of favoritism when they talk about 7s.

    It's kinda like, who would 'come out as a 4' when it's looked down upon so much. People didn't really start coming out as gay until they realized it was nothing to be ashamed of.

    Everybody wants to have some sort of 'badassness' to them, its human nature, and who the fuck would want to be the most emoest type? They need to re-write 4s to sound more cutting and bad-ass and talk more about what they do to hurt other people.

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    Yeah the descriptions for 4 are bad. The part I hate the most is probably the whole searching for an identity thing. Wtf does that even mean?

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    I'm apart from my Riso & Hudson and Helen Palmer books at the moment, but I seem to recall that the 4 can be a demanding bitch causing all sorts of push-pull conflicts and once they feel they've driven everyone away can become quite emotionally manipulative... this is in part because the 4 doesn't feel things are real unless they're emotionally intense enough, and in part because the 4 believes they are defective and so of course they will drive everyone away once others see the inadequate and repulsive being beneath the exterior (and they are desperately afraid of being abandoned). I would also think 4s would be far more demanding about their emotional needs because they are more in touch with these needs and so they might flat out demand, while being oblivious to the needs of others.

    I've always wondered if my thoughts about the 2 are too narrow though. With the 2 I would really expect to see the "helper mechanism" and the need to be perceived as a benevolent helper, or rescuer and so on, while neglecting ones own needs and true feelings and often being largely unaware of them. One is proud because they're a saintly compassionate helper and giver and this of course makes them worthy of love and appreciation. In fact if their help is denied by others, that's when they may get very aggressive and 8-like, because it's like a serious blow... it tells them they're not worthy of love after all... I myself have been the "victim" of an overly helpful 2 in 8-mode. It was like this person could not take "no" for an answer and so badly needed to see herself as "helpful" that she was downright interfering and meddlesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I've always wondered if my thoughts about the 2 are too narrow though. With the 2 I would really expect to see the "helper mechanism" and the need to be perceived as a benevolent helper, or rescuer and so on, while neglecting ones own needs and true feelings and often being largely unaware of them. One is proud because they're a saintly compassionate helper and giver and this of course makes them worthy of love and appreciation. In fact if their help is denied by others, that's when they may get very aggressive and 8-like, because it's like a serious blow... it tells them they're not worthy of love after all... I myself have been the "victim" of an overly helpful 2 in 8-mode. It was like this person could not take "no" for an answer and so badly needed to see herself as "helpful" that she was downright interfering and meddlesome.
    What you say about 2 is something I have certainly experienced, much to my consternation.

    I don't know you well, Jenna, but i have a hard time seeing you as 2-like. You seem like you could be truly empathetic and level, and not crusaderesque. But those are just Internet impressions coupled with bad 2 associations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I've always wondered if my thoughts about the 2 are too narrow though. With the 2 I would really expect to see the "helper mechanism" and the need to be perceived as a benevolent helper, or rescuer and so on, while neglecting ones own needs and true feelings and often being largely unaware of them. One is proud because they're a saintly compassionate helper and giver and this of course makes them worthy of love and appreciation. In fact if their help is denied by others, that's when they may get very aggressive and 8-like, because it's like a serious blow... it tells them they're not worthy of love after all... I myself have been the "victim" of an overly helpful 2 in 8-mode. It was like this person could not take "no" for an answer and so badly needed to see herself as "helpful" that she was downright interfering and meddlesome.
    Which is what makes me think 2s are exclusively extraverted types. They are too intrusive in principle to be introverted types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio The Rapping Antenna View Post
    Introverted 2 is very unlikely. 2s are usually extroverted feelers (ExFx).
    Dunno about that. Social extroversion can come in any form, but also not an enneagram expert thus the not knowing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    Dunno about that. Social extroversion can come in any form, but also not an enneagram expert thus the not knowing.
    Yeah, but it's not social extroversion, it's having your entire focus towards helping other people, i.e. engaging with the object.

    An introverted alternative to this might be type 9, which is similarly a positive-outlook type, but their focus is on their own train of thought.

    At any rate, I think Jenna is 4.

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