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Thread: Te v Ti or Se v Si???

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Default Te v Ti or Se v Si???

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    A common urban legend states that, faced with the fact that ball-point pens will not write in zero-gravity, NASA spent a large amount of money to develop a pen that would write in the conditions experienced during spaceflight (the result purportedly being the Fisher Space Pen), while the Soviet Union took the simpler (and cheaper) route of just using pencils.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Pen
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    If anything, I guess that could be an example of Ti vs. Te rather than Se vs. Si. The space pen is the optimised result in which all problems regular ballpens would have in zero gravity are eliminated. The pencil, however, is the alternative which is already at hand and instantly available. It has just some downsides which could make the use of it dangerous (graphite particles, splinters, ect.). The pencil is a cheap and easy solution, while the space pen is maybe one of the best solutions there is even though it's development was relatively costly (no matter if the state or a company has paid for it). I have read that article some days ago actually, but I've heard about this urban legend before.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
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    Its T, although I don't think it matters whether or not its Ti or Te. Most likely ST vs NT, and depends on what goal they're trying to reach.

    I had one of those pens....received as a gift. Unfortunately, I never got to use it...im destructive sometimes so it somehow broke.

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    I agree with Agee. Specifically, it sounds like Gamma NT (Space Pen) vs. Delta ST (Pencil). The Russians used pencils because they were a cheap and effective way to resolve the immediate problem of writing in space, demonstrating practicality and efficiency on a short-term scale (Si). The Americans saw that using pencils posed a long-term problem, and spent money to acquire a solution, demonstrating practicality and efficiency on a long-term Ni scale.

    Of course, reality would have been much more complicated, with many people of many types involved on both sides, but the way the story is presented, it's Delta ST vs. Gamma NT. The urban legend is a common motif among forwarded e-mail chains like this (forwarded e-mail chains being an almost exclusively Delta phenomenon) -- the clever Delta heroes (in this case, surprisingly, the Russians) find a simple and effective immediate solution, showing the foolishness of the needlessly complicated Gammas who are "out of touch" with common sense and everyday reality.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    the clever Delta heroes (in this case, surprisingly, the Russians) find a simple and effective immediate solution, showing the foolishness of the needlessly complicated Gammas who are "out of touch" with common sense and everyday reality.
    This is an interesting explanation. That would make it a comparison between the two types of Te.



    Here is a commercial for a german newspaper which uses this story. The text is basically: "Before the first manned flight into space took place, the Nasa developed (which is false, the Nasa didn't work on it) a ballpen which wouldn't leak in zero gravity. The development expenses add up to over 1 million dollars" *switches to pencil* "And this is how the russians solved the problem." *Substance matters*
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
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    Haikus
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    My experience is most people will decide to use a pencil, because it's a pencil-- you write things with it and erase with it. However in the field of advancement, astronauts are always looking for new approaches to problems, whether its a new pen, a voice reader, a stylus, or keyboard, there's always going to be other solutions to writing in space, that any type is capable of researching. So it is most likely astronaut-related.

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    LOL ITS IMPRACTICAL SOoooo IT MUST BE GAMMA NT LolloLOLOLlololLOLOLOLlolo

    Krig do you smoke a lot of weed, or what-have-you, in order to have such a big imagination?
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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    LOL ITS IMPRACTICAL SOoooo IT MUST BE GAMMA NT LolloLOLOLlololLOLOLOLlolo

    Krig do you smoke a lot of weed, or what-have-you, in order to have such a big imagination?
    You seem to have misread my post. A lot of Deltas, particularly the ones who forward e-mail chains containing urban legends like this one, think that Gamma NTs are impractical. These e-mail chains are effectively a way for Deltas to reassure themselves that Delta values are clever and correct, and other Quadras' values (in this case Gamma) are foolish and wrong.

    [Also, I appear to have accidentally clicked "Constructive" instead of "Reply", and can't undo it. I apologize; I didn't mean to imply that your post was constructive. ]
    Quaero Veritas.

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    The problem with pencils is that the tips break off and you don't want conductive graphite chunks wedging in your sensitive electrical equipment, especially if you don't want to be stranded in space forever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    The problem with pencils is that the tips break off and you don't want conductive graphite chunks wedging in your sensitive electrical equipment, especially if you don't want to be stranded in space forever.
    Definitely worth wasting a million dollars to cover.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

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    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Definitely worth wasting a million dollars to cover.
    I guess it could be. I guess it depends on how much you're willing to play the odds when you have the opportunity not to.




    From http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/pao/faq/faqanswers.htm
    Q. How much does the Space Shuttle cost?
    A. The Space Shuttle Endeavour, the orbiter built to replace the Space Shuttle Challenger, cost approximately $1.7 billion.
    Then again there are fail-safes for the equipment and such, but it costs more and it's the same point as paying more for a safer writing utensil. So I guess it depends on your perspective of what constitutes a problem or when it is enough.

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    I don't think NASA even invested money into it. link

    "Short-sighted solutions, which at first seem simple and practical" is a perfect way to describe my issues with a former LSE coworker. When choosing the best solution, she didn't seem to place any weight on the likelihood/severity of future issues that would arise when the system was in use, a kind of "we'll fix it when it happens" mentality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    The problem with pencils is that the tips break off and you don't want conductive graphite chunks wedging in your sensitive electrical equipment, especially if you don't want to be stranded in space forever.
    clearly, baked clay tablets are the optimum solution.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    I don't think NASA even invested money into it. link

    "Short-sighted solutions, which at first seem simple and practical" is a perfect way to describe my issues with a former LSE coworker. When choosing the best solution, she didn't seem to place any weight on the likelihood/severity of future issues that would arise when the system was in use, a kind of "we'll fix it when it happens" mentality.
    Don't insult Delta STs by trying to imply a preconceived stereotype.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Local Hero Saberstorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Don't insult Delta STs by trying to imply a preconceived stereotype.
    LIKE THIS?


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FA__4fLBos

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhGX5izia1U

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Speaking on efficiency:

    "A Spanish company and a Japanese company sent their employees to a boat race. The Japanese boat defeated the Spanish one by far. A group of engineers felt curiosity after reading the reports and interviewed both teams. They came up with an explanation: the Japanese boat had 1 captain and 10 rowers: the Spanish one, 10 captains and one rower"
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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Don't insult Delta STs by trying to imply a preconceived stereotype.
    *shrugs* That's how she looks from my NiFe perspective. I'm sure she thinks my ideas are needlessly complex and impractical, in fact I think she's insinuated that a few times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Neither Te nor Ti. Se or Si? probably more Si than Se.

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