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Thread: Nature vs nurture

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    Kristiina's Avatar
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    Default Nature vs nurture

    This topic is about dichotomies and whether they come from the type (nature) or from how the person behaves (nurture).

    There are plenty of people who act like another type due to environment. This should be most frequent when switching the program with role function. The 4 conscious functions are all strong in their own way due to the natural type. The PoLR is very hard to control, therefore it shouldn't be the kind of function that starts acting like an ego-block function. The role is strong. People should use it in certain situations, but I when the environment calls for it, I think the role could start acting like program function. This will not change the type.

    I don't think that unconscious functions (5th to 8th) could easily become conscious. Therefore it shouldn't happen very often that one of those functions starts acting like an ego-block function.

    Each row of the A model can be viewed individually and they all consist of a program and a creative. 1 and 3 are programs, 2 and 4 are creatives. For reasons I already discussed, I think that people might switch their program, but the creative will stay the same. This would make people act like their look-a-like.

    The dichotomies are different for look-a-likes, but the person will still be able to choose one (e.g. strategist over tactic, static over dynamic, taciturn over narrator, etc). If the person has spent their childhood (when the brain develops) acting like their look-a-like, will s/he choose the ones that are correct for the native type or will s/he choose those of the look-a-like.

    In short, are dichotomies concurrent with the natural type or the behavioral type?
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    Creepy-pokeball

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    The never ending question.

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Generally speaking, when an uncoscious function starts to have a prominent role in a person's behaviour, the cause is neurosis. However, the direction of the causality is not so clear to me: is the neurosis cause by the usage of the function due to the requirements of external circumstances, or is the neurosis cause by the external usage of the function which in turn causes the subject to acquire via osmosis the behavior?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Generally speaking, when an uncoscious function starts to have a prominent role in a person's behaviour, the cause is neurosis. However, the direction of the causality is not so clear to me: is the neurosis cause by the usage of the function due to the requirements of external circumstances, or is the neurosis cause by the external usage of the function which in turn causes the subject to acquire via osmosis the behavior?
    Can you give an example of the second possible cause?
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    What I've thought:

    1) dichotomies are caused by native type.
    People are born with a certain brain pattern. They have fixed neural patterns and when they use their role in stead of their program, information still passes through the region of the program before it gets to the role. (this is simplified, because I don't think there is one visible region for each function).

    2) dichotomies are caused by behavioral type
    Having information pass through certain regions causes those regions to develop better. The dichotomies are caused by the information processing patterns that take the least energy. If a person acts like their look-a-like, s/he develops regions that make it easier to use another method (e.g. static, not dynamic.)

    I see both as having 50-50 chance of being correct. I can't really decide. I'm tempted to believe the second one, because I think this is the case for me. (having all the signs of ENFj from dichotomies to quadra values, but still not being ENFj)
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
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    Kristiina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Generally speaking, when an uncoscious function starts to have a prominent role in a person's behaviour, the cause is neurosis. However, the direction of the causality is not so clear to me: is the neurosis cause by the usage of the function due to the requirements of external circumstances, or is the neurosis cause by the external usage of the function which in turn causes the subject to acquire via osmosis the behavior?
    I think that neurosis is caused by the usage of unconscious functions as if they were in the ego block. From socionics point of view, what else would cause neurosis?
    People become unstable when they are forced to be someone else. If a person can just be himself and the environment isn't forcing any other way of life, the person might be unhappy but not neurotic.

    PS! I don't think I'm neurotic, but I do think I have a lot to learn in order to be comfortable with myself. I'm having another insomnia phase for a couple of weeks now. I'm sure there is a way to avoid it, but I have to know myself better to find the comfortable me.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
    New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/

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    Creepy-hot-dog

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    Oh! Where I have got? It in fact an empire of "jsb'07" clones!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hot-dog
    Oh! Where I have got? It in fact an empire of "jsb'07" clones!
    How should I interpret this? Really. This is confusing me but making me curious.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
    New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/

  9. #9
    Creepy-hot-dog

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    How should I interpret this? Really. This is confusing me but making me curious.
    All is very simple. Here at a forum the same person who registers itself under different names operates. Sends here every possible messages and itself on them answers.

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    Kristiina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hot-dog
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    How should I interpret this? Really. This is confusing me but making me curious.
    All is very simple. Here at a forum the same person who registers itself under different names operates. Sends here every possible messages and itself on them answers.
    I know a couple of people who might do this, but I don't think jsb'07 is one of them. He has had other names, but I think he uses one at a time. (he has abandoned the previous ones).

    I'm too boring to have alternative posting-personalities. And I suck at lying so badly that people could tell after 3 posts, so it would be pointless.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
    New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/

  11. #11
    Creepy-hot-dog

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    I know a couple of people who might do this, but I don't think jsb'07 is one of them. He has had other names, but I think he uses one at a time. (he has abandoned the previous ones).

    I'm too boring to have alternative posting-personalities. And I suck at lying so badly that people could tell after 3 posts, so it would be pointless.
    It is not necessary to accept me for the fool. I already enough well know, that is created here at a forum. It is a pity, that this forum does not have true owner. And to whom this forum is necessary? It has no value.

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    Kristiina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hot-dog
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    I know a couple of people who might do this, but I don't think jsb'07 is one of them. He has had other names, but I think he uses one at a time. (he has abandoned the previous ones).

    I'm too boring to have alternative posting-personalities. And I suck at lying so badly that people could tell after 3 posts, so it would be pointless.
    It is not necessary to accept me for the fool. I already enough well know, that is created here at a forum. It is a pity, that this forum does not have true owner. And to whom this forum is necessary? It has no value.
    Why do you come here then? because the other forum is down?
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
    New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/

  13. #13
    Creepy-hot-dog

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Why do you come here then? because the other forum is down?
    It is a pity, that I have not come here earlier. I would lift huge bark. Now unfortunately late. This forum is absolutely dirtied.

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    MysticSonic's Avatar
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    Dirtied? Are you using th electronic translator?
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

  15. #15
    Creepy-pokeball

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    what the frankenfurt? lol

  16. #16
    Creepy-hot-dog

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    What for you go on this forum? What for write here any nonsense? In fact one person, same very well it is visible to all of you?

  17. #17
    Creepy-pokeball

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    LOL! Im sorry but eh oh el =p


    We all have our various reasons. Your absolute value for something only of some strict subjective value you have and then projected onto us is, well, absolutely retarded.

  18. #18
    Creepy-hot-dog

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    Whom you pretended to be, smell all the same equally. It was pleasant to meet again.

  19. #19
    Creepy-pokeball

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    Ahh, the internet is great...

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