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Thread: IEE/ENFp of enneagram type 5

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    Default IEE/ENFp of enneagram type 5

    Could such a creature exist? Why or why not, do you think?

    This has nothing to do with me, btw, and if you're convinced it does, you don't belong in this thread.
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    I think the general correspondence is IEE-Ne: 7w6, IEE-Fi 3w4. I can't really see an ENFp as a 5, I associate 5 with NT.

    I don't place stock into the enneagram, it's too vague imo.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Enneagram does not modify Sociotype, enneatype must be embedded in the range of manifestations of sociotype. Therefore, if an IEE Five is possible, and I don't mean just testing as such, but really being a Five, then a Five's core traits must be traits related to being sociotype IEE.

    If this describes an IEE in essence, then yes to the OP, if not then no:

    Type Five in Brief

    Fives are alert, insightful, and curious. They are able to concentrate and focus on developing complex ideas and skills. Independent, innovative, and inventive, they can also become preoccupied with their thoughts and imaginary constructs. They become detached, yet high-strung and intense. They typically have problems with eccentricity, nihilism, and isolation. At their Best: visionary pioneers, often ahead of their time, and able to see the world in an entirely new way.

    Basic Fear: Being useless, helpless, or incapable
    Basic Desire: To be capable and competent
    Enneagram Five with a Four-Wing: "The Iconoclast"
    Enneagram Five with a Six-Wing: "The Problem Solver"

    Key Motivations: Want to possess knowledge, to understand the environment, to have everything figured out as a way of defending the self from threats from the environment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by walker31 View Post
    I think the general correspondence is IEE-Ne: 7w6, IEE-Fi 3w4.
    7w6 sounds sound, I think. Not sure about 3w4 though.

    I associate 5 with NT.
    How about STs, introverted ones?

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Enneagram does not modify Sociotype, enneatype must be embedded in the range of manifestations of sociotype. Therefore, if an IEE Five is possible, and I don't mean just testing as such, but really being a Five, then a Five's core traits must be traits related to being sociotype IEE.

    If this describes an IEE in essence, then yes to the OP, if not then no:
    At this point, let's just say all E-types, no matter what they are, are in fact, and can be applied to all sociotypes, no matter what sociotype it is.

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    What ESC posted sounds more ILE-ish to me, but maybe it could be an IEE too, I don't know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mother Slacker View Post
    What ESC posted sounds more ILE-ish to me, but maybe it could be an IEE too, I don't know.
    Think so as well. Quite of an introverted ILE, I guess.

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    The very notion of any F ego 5 sounds ridiculous to me, especially EXFx.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cat King Cole
    This has nothing to do with me, btw, and if you're convinced it does, you don't belong in this thread.
    we'll see about that
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    7w6 sounds sound, I think. Not sure about 3w4 though..
    Maybe 6w7 for IEE-Fi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    How about STs, introverted ones?
    5 sounds detached for an ST.

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walker31 View Post
    Maybe but 5 sounds detached for an ST.
    I'm sure there are plenty of ISTj and ISTp 5s out there.

    ENFps tend to be 3w2, 3w4, 6w5, 6w7, 7w6, and 9w1 from what I've seen.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    I'm sure there are plenty of ISTj and ISTp 5s out there.
    Maybe the pisces ones

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    Quote Originally Posted by walker31 View Post
    Maybe 6w7 for IEE-Fi.
    Haha, that's what I thought but I erased it from my temples.

    5 sounds detached for an ST.
    Oh, okay.

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    I don't think so. I have trouble seeing any extrovert as a five, and especially an IEE. Fives isolate themselves from their emotions and feelings, and they compartmentalize them so they can be easily ignored when needed.

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    Creepy-pokeball

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    I have seen ISFj and INFj 5s, specifically 5w6. 6w5 INFjs are more common than the former 2, in my experience. I have never encountered an extroverted 5, just in the same way I have never encountered an introverted 7.

    A 5 will usually be INTx, ISTx, or IXFj -- in that order of frequency. I have yet to see a T-HA Introvert (IXFp) 5.
    A 7 will usually be ENTx, ESXp, or ENFx -- in that order of frequency. I have yet to see a Ni-POLR Extrovert (ESXj) 7.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae View Post
    A 7 will usually be ENTx, ESXp, or ENFx -- in that order of frequency. I have yet to see a Ni-POLR Extrovert (ESXj) 7.
    ESFj 7s are quite common as I see it. There have to got to be at least a couple ESTj 7s, Hugh Jackman comes to mind as a 7w8.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    ESFj 7s are quite common as I see it. There have to got to be at least a couple ESTj 7s, Hugh Jackman comes to mind as a 7w8.
    Hugh Jackman is an ENTp 6w7.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Enneagram does not modify Sociotype, enneatype must be embedded in the range of manifestations of sociotype. Therefore, if an IEE Five is possible, and I don't mean just testing as such, but really being a Five, then a Five's core traits must be traits related to being sociotype IEE.
    Thanks, this was the sort of post I was looking for.

    At any rate, directed back at the thread--

    I have several questions:

    What is an enneagram type? Is it a collection of behaviours? Is it shorthand for a bundle of experiential data unique to each observing person? Is it core motivations? A collection of schemas and defences that arise from deprived childhood emotional needs?

    Can type change, or an additional type arise as an extra layer later in response to severe or ongoing trauma, or do types merely move down the "levels of health"?

    What are the levels of health? Do they have any validity as theoretical structures? How about as descriptions of actual psychological processes? Were they derived from a reasonably random sample? Are they dogma, or raw material?

    We have a lot of basic ideas along those lines floating around in this thread. If you can answer, you can answer whether an IEE 5 is possible--which was the original topic, not regurgitating correlations "in your experience".

    IMO, yes. I understand the etypes as being collections of schemas, especially the head types (which is where I've been focusing my attention lately). A Five is just any person who has a history of their needs not being met, so they detach and decide to not want or need anything to defend themselves from disappointment. This does raise the problem of leaving Fives and Nines basically identical, however, in terms of attitude, leaving the only differences being the vague and nebulous "inner world".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae View Post
    Hugh Jackman is an ENTp 6w7.
    No. He's an LSE.

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    Hi CKC, I believe that Enneagram is about ways of survival, and that it is static. Further, I believe that body relativity and holism correlates to it. From this point forward, we will obviously disagree, which I think is okay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    I'm sure there are plenty of ISTj and ISTp 5s out there.
    Yeah, I'd be one of those guys. Actually, I'm more certain about my enneagram type right now, it's the E-type which fits perfectly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat King Cole
    What is an enneagram type? Is it a collection of behaviours? Is it shorthand for a bundle of experiential data unique to each observing person? Is it core motivations? A collection of schemas and defences that arise from deprived childhood emotional needs?
    Essentially, it's your core fear and how you deal with it. For instance, 7s are afraid of pain/hurt, so they run from it and ignore it and rationalize it away. 5s are afraid of being open/vulnerable, so they "hoard" things to protect themselves from it. That's the very, very basics, but the best way to explain it.

    Can type change, or an additional type arise as an extra layer later in response to severe or ongoing trauma, or do types merely move down the "levels of health"?
    I like the idea of integration and disintegration, personally. They seem to fit very well. So a 7 when feeling insecure will turn to unhealthy type 1 and, when feeling confident/secure, take on healthy attributes of type 5. However, they still have the taste of 7, so a 7=>5 won't be super introverty or hoardy, but instead more...focused. I don't like the levels of health, just because it doesn't seem to work as well as the integration styles.

    This does raise the problem of leaving Fives and Nines basically identical, however, in terms of attitude, leaving the only differences being the vague and nebulous "inner world".
    That's why you shouldn't look at behaviors to determine enneagram typings. It's all about motivations and defense mechanisms. Behaviorally, 5s and 1s can look very alike as well, though their motives are very different.

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