Real Life Interactions!

[munenori2]

Mother: That's why nobody likes me! I make jokes I think are hilarious and no one thinks they're hilarious! Whenever they handed out charm I didn't get any. Not like you, my children, you've all got it. *looks at my sister in the rear view mirror* For the most part.

Sister: It's because you don't have any empathy.

Mother: What's empathy?

Sister: It means you put yourself in other people's shoes. Like if someone hits their finger hammering a nail, you say "Ouuuuuch!" with them and try to make them feel better.

Mother: Oh, I don't have that. My response would be to laugh!

Sister: That's why people don't like you. You've got some kind of opposite of empathy. It's like...there's got to be a word for it.

Moi: Antipathy?

Sister: *laughing* Yeah! I like that word.

Mother: You're right! I'm an antipath. I try to do what you're saying, but everyone can tell I'm faking. I say, "Oh, I know exactly how you're feeling". They can see right through me! I'd like to be a better person. Everytime I try to think nice thoughts though it only lasts a few minutes.

Sister: Well, you just have to keep thinking them. Practice and try to think nice thoughts longer each time.

Moi: I don't know, mom. You're a nice person. You've kind of got a mean sense of humor sometimes, but you also say what you mean. If you try to be too nice, you wind up not saying much at all. Some people take things too seriously and get mad at just about anything. Those are the people you put the kid gloves on for. The fun people are the ones that can handle your kind of crazy.

Mother: And that's why you're my favorite son. If I win the lottery I'll give you $500 to do whatever you want with!

[Beautiful sky]

What type's your sis?

[munenori2]

What type do YOU think she is?

[Trevor]

Mother: T>F ??

[Beautiful sky]

Not my type because we're more concerned about what mom's saying is making us feel as opposed to what your sister's doing which is telling your mom who and what she is. She seems to be an extravert because she senses that about your mom and it's something outside of herself, her thoughts and feelings. I could say that she is probably ENTp or ESFj.

[munenori2]

I type my sister as an EII, although I've played with ESI or SEI. My mom, I've thought was ESxj, but who knows. She kind of likes to push my sister's buttons as far as what's appropriate and my sister ranges from trying to correct to being embarrassed to be seen with her to storming out of the room in anger.

[Beautiful sky]

That's not possible because an EII is focused on her own emotional expression, not identifying the missing links in others. We are innert and not exterior. The very way in which your mom suggests that she is unliked would strike up emotions for me for your mom to provide a sense of comfort; like it's written of EII in so many places that "she strives to be a compress that others may apply to their wounds." An EII would see your mom's reflection of her thoughts as an opportunity to reach out to her and give her some truth from her perspective. If I were in your sister's shoes, I would have reacted with empathy and comfort:

Me: I love you mom, so does dad.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

The opening remark reminded me of my mother, who is ESE. She comments when we don't laugh loudly enough at her jokes. I wouldn't call her non-empathetic, though, more like overly sensitive. FeSi explosions are no fun.And mine is a major troll, too. She loves doing stuff just so we'll react.

[FDG]

Ahahah, your mom seems cool. I don't think she was totally serious, right? I mean, especially with her first remark...

[Slacker]

What your sister did with your mom is exactly what I do with my daughter.

Daughter: *relationship problem*
Me: *reason for relationship problem and possible solution*
Daughter:

[squark]

What your sister did with your mom is exactly what I do with my daughter.

Daughter: *relationship problem*
Me: *reason for relationship problem and possible solution*
Daughter:

OH! That's what you were talking about in the chat. You were right, I don't like that approach.

[InkStrider]

What your sister did with your mom is exactly what I do with my daughter.

Daughter: *relationship problem*
Me: *reason for relationship problem and possible solution*
Daughter:

. I've done that to people before, during my impatient moments. Until I realized that in conversations, we need to distinguish between an emotional convo and a problem-solving one. And then to proceed accordingly. It usually comes in a package, and the venting is necessary in order to properly understand and sort out exactly where the problem lay, before it can be dealt with.

Most times though, the problem is complex and cannot be easily solved, and people just want to be understood.

[Slacker]

Well her problems seem to me like they could be easily solved, but she still doesn't want a solution, and I have learned to step back and just give her what she's looking for. I just think this situation she (ILE) and I have faced is similar to the OP.

[Gilly]

Well her problems seem to me like they could be easily solved, but she still doesn't want a solution, and I have learned to step back and just give her what she's looking for. I just think this situation she (ILE) and I have faced is similar to the OP.

Ugh I hate when people do this. I don't see any point in whining about something and not expecting a response, apart from dumping one's own emotional baggage all over someone else. It's bullshit. Nobody can live your life or feel your pain for you, and by venting and expecting people to just sit there and take it, you alienate them emotionally, because you are similtaneously asking them to care and telling them to do nothing about it. I can't stand this kind of behavior; it makes me wonder if the people doing it have any empathy themselves. Being on the receiving end of this kind of heartless bullshit only makes you feel useless and powerless, like an emotional pack horse. Fuck people who are like that.

[squark]

Ugh I hate when people do this. I don't see any point in whining about something and not expecting a response, apart from dumping one's own emotional baggage all over someone else. It's bullshit. Nobody can live your life or feel your pain for you, and by venting and expecting people to just sit there and take it, you alienate them emotionally, because you are similtaneously asking them to care and telling them to do nothing about it. I can't stand this kind of behavior; it makes me wonder if the people doing it have any empathy themselves. Being on the receiving end of this kind of heartless bullshit only makes you feel useless and powerless, like an emotional pack horse. Fuck people who are like that.

It really depends on how it's done. If you tell someone something, and they seem critical and judging of YOU, it's not actually helpful. It's like someone is saying, "You're wrong as a person, and everyone knows it, here, let me fix you." Whereas something like mune's approach is a lot better, saying, "There's nothing wrong with you, but with certain people you have to take a different approach. . . " One (like mune's sister) is critical of your person, the other (like mune's) is more beneficial for the situation without attacking you personally.

[Gilly]

Oh well duh. I dunno I mean I never actually judge people for their problems, I try to be sympathetic, but if people don't want advice then why make like they are asking for it?

I dunno, to me just "venting" about something seems useless, unproductive, and inconsiderate, unless it's something you really just have to get off your chest. Otherwise you are just thoughtlessly being an emotional burden on others.

[Lotus]

idk sometimes i'll vent as a means of finding mY own solutions. saYing them aloud and having occasional feedback helps me realize mYself what i should do about something

[Gilly]

I dunno I just don't like being an emotional dart board.

[squark]

Oh well duh. I dunno I mean I never actually judge people for their problems, I try to be sympathetic, but if people don't want advice then why make like they are asking for it?

I dunno, to me just "venting" about something seems useless, unproductive, and inconsiderate, unless it's something you really just have to get off your chest. Otherwise you are just thoughtlessly being an emotional burden on others.

The thing is, mune was actually giving advice also. It just wasn't in the same format.

[Gilly]

The thing is, mune was actually giving advice also. It just wasn't in the same format.

Huh? I'm not talking about mune's scenario really. I have no problem with people asking for advice. It's when they expect you to sit there and have you there to talk at that I get pissed.

[squark]

Huh? I'm not talking about mune's scenario really. I have no problem with people asking for advice. It's when they expect you to sit there and have you there to talk at that I get pissed.

I'm saying that may not be what's going on. Like with SM's daughter. She may not just want to vent. She might be receptive to advice, but in a different form. One that feels less like an attack, and more like someone's on her side solving the problem. kwim?

[Slacker]

She says just that - that I'm taking the other person's side, but I'm not! I swear I'm on her side! I obviously don't communicate well enough that I am on her side.

[Gilly]

I'm saying that may not be what's going on. Like with SM's daughter. She may not just want to vent. She might be receptive to advice, but in a different form. One that feels less like an attack, and more like someone's on her side solving the problem. kwim?

In the scenarios I'm thinking of in my life, I've actually been told that my advice is unwanted and that I am expected to sit there and take it like an emotional packhorse. Not my can of soup.

[squark]

She says just that - that I'm taking the other person's side, but I'm not! I swear I'm on her side! I obviously don't communicate well enough that I am on her side.

Maybe approach it as the problem is the other person's weakness/problem/inability, and the solution is her accommodation of their problem. Like mune did with his mom, "Some people take things too seriously and get mad at just about anything. Those are the people you put the kid gloves on for." Seeing the other person the way she sees them, rather than seeing her the way they see her.

[squark]

In the scenarios I'm thinking of in my life, I've actually been told that my advice is unwanted and that I am expected to sit there and take it like an emotional packhorse. Not my can of soup.

oh yeah. for sure not. they can buy a pet if they want silent listening to their whines.

[Gilly]

oh yeah. for sure not. they can buy a pet if they want silent listening to their whines.

Amen.

[golden]

Ugh I hate when people do this. I don't see any point in whining about something and not expecting a response, apart from dumping one's own emotional baggage all over someone else. It's bullshit. Nobody can live your life or feel your pain for you, and by venting and expecting people to just sit there and take it, you alienate them emotionally, because you are similtaneously asking them to care and telling them to do nothing about it. I can't stand this kind of behavior; it makes me wonder if the people doing it have any empathy themselves. Being on the receiving end of this kind of heartless bullshit only makes you feel useless and powerless, like an emotional pack horse. Fuck people who are like that.

Pretty much disagree--at least, it's so not that simple. I've been a dumpee plenty of times and it angers me deeply, and I'm sure I've made the mistake of dumping. (When I know I've gone into full-blown dumping mode, I go to a therapist so someone gets paid to listen.)

But Motha Slacka is talking about a child. It is so incredibly important for children to develop a usable vocabulary for their emotions. Letting them feel safe in talking about their feelings, and validating those feelings, allows them to learn this.

[Slacker]

I agree with that, and really I think even adults should have someone in their lives they can safely dump to if that's what would feel good. Not to everyone because it isn't appropriate for every relationship, but venting can be healthy.

[Trevor]

of course venting can be healthy, DUH

[golden]

Just to be clear, I don't think Gilly is describing venting. I think he's describing some kind of interpersonal boundary violation, such as when a parent uses a child by dumping their emotional baggage on the kid. The ventee has to be there voluntarily, not forced to listen even when they are overwhelmed by what they're hearing and the reactions that come up in response, and not used simply because they're a convenient captive repository for another person's negative and painful psychological content.

[Slacker]

Yeah that's why I said it has to be appropriate in the relationship, which is why I didn't disagree with Gilly either.