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Thread: What does dual-seeking Ti look like?

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    Default What does dual-seeking Ti look like?

    What does suggestive Ti look like? Any examples? ESE and EIE have this. A lack of Ti that they express weakly, yet seem to appreciate in others. Any body have this, can you but that into action with some concrete examples?

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    Well what happens is that the person gets so soaked up about the stuff that happened or comes from them in their external environment that they lose track of their thoughts and gets involved in an array of feeling processes, looking like they have all sorts of emotions going through them, especially anger, frustration and they express all of this without stopping to think about what's going on, where it's coming from; they lose the internal structure that would help them analyze the situation and come to terms with things; Ti base types approach this situation categorically and just give their personal/subjective insights and that's what helps the Fe bases get over their extreme emotional identification with what happened to them.

    Here's an example; my ESE friend doesn't like working at her job and she complains that the reason why she's not getting a raise is because people don't like her and at the same time is expressing frustration about what she might do about money and school; all these thoughts converge that she can't categorize, analyze, make sense of; I do that for her sometimes and she comes out of all these feeling processes that she undergoes (feelings of frustration, anger, etc); these feeling processes are directly related to other people, what they get out of the environment not what's made up in their own mind about what's happening even though it's not, as it tends to happen with me, sometimes. You will hear typical comments from her like, I have to go to school, I was thinking of moving away, but my parents rely on me, I don't like my job, I don't like the people I work with, they are evil, mean, manipulated B****; etc) I don't speak this way, when I get upset, I tend to either hold it in and not show any signs of it, or show signs with silence; she'll break out in "don't tell me that, you have no right" attitude that's not moody but somewhat confrontational.

    So when they are lost in expressing feelings and can't seem to sort out their thoughts, the Ti is there to help and in turn the Ti is looking for someone who is capable of ardent expression of their feelings. Through the expression of feelings, the Ti type reads the person; they have a hard time reading me because I hardly show any feelings as you may observe from my videos in my signature; it's interesting how one can feel trust and comfort through expressive feeling gestures. Ti thinks that there aren't any "hidden" motives in expressive emotions. While I don't think there are hidden motives in someone who simply says something to be some way, that's because I trust people and don't need to see emotions in order to take their word in good faith, although I can be suspicious if and when people don't give me direct answers and facts.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 11-20-2011 at 06:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    What does suggestive Ti look like? Any examples? ESE and EIE have this. A lack of Ti that they express weakly, yet seem to appreciate in others. Any body have this, can you but that into action with some concrete examples?
    I get the feeling with my ESE friend that he tries to be scientific, questioning and precise after my example.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Lots of questioning, lots of "why?", jumping to impulsive conclusions, lack of confidence in drawing logical conclusions/drawing analogies, appreciative of long-winded, detailed explanations
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    I made a booboo....I was thinking of DS Ti. pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

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    ESEs deprived of quality Ti will at some point flip and demand that others to be less stupid and stop making some particular mistakes in the way they are thinking. I've seen this happen a few.


    5. Ti: dual-seeking function of ESFj and program function of INTj
    ESE is able to accept information only when it's provided in a clear logical form. It is common for people of this type to issues requests for a logical explanation in terms of general patterns of specific life events. Such explanation ESE receives from the LII, who gives clear, unambiguous answers and interpretation, puts the dots over the "i's", and shows good understanding of problems that concern the ESE. Not receiving information of this kind, ESE starts to demand of people around him to be "intelligent" and to simply understand the reasons for his actions.

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    I think it's very useful to contrast the dynamic and static natures of these. The dynamic way is a lot more akin to a progression, algorithm, and so forth, rather than an underlying set of laws governing the progression. The underlying subjective factors to interacting with dynamic reality, thus, must be perceived rather than known rationally. I think rationality deals most directly with the subject as a figure with identity (because rationalization requires a conscious deliberation, and when subjectively oriented, the subject behind this deliberation becomes the determining factor for how the judgment proceeds) whereas the subjective factor of perception notes how this theoretical entity called identity displays itself through the progression of various subjective states, hence the subject is viewed more fluidly. Hence why Fe coupled with introverted perception seems like an "expression" sometimes more than a judgment, though through this expression is a certain kind of judgment.

    So the one major component of Ti dual-seeking is seeking out someone who sees things statically - it's such an incredibly different mindset. Ti doesn't even respond to objective states truly, whereas Fe is nothing without an objective state to respond to. Hence they get very out of touch with the sense of having a stable inner core sometimes, and it's almost as if the dual's presence makes them aware of it, providing welcome context to their normally Fe mindset.

    If a Fe-lead is really intellectual with logical matters, he/she is more likely employing Te as such, not processing mainly in the Ti mindset. Which is perfectly OK - a lot of highly theoretical stuff can be approached using the Te-Ni block of say, ESE (used as example since that would be Saberstorm's dual).

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    ESEs deprived of quality Ti will at some point flip and demand that others to be less stupid and stop making some particular mistakes in the way they are thinking. I've seen this happen a few.


    5. Ti: dual-seeking function of ESFj and program function of INTj
    ESE is able to accept information only when it's provided in a clear logical form. It is common for people of this type to issues requests for a logical explanation in terms of general patterns of specific life events. Such explanation ESE receives from the LII, who gives clear, unambiguous answers and interpretation, puts the dots over the "i's", and shows good understanding of problems that concern the ESE. Not receiving information of this kind, ESE starts to demand of people around him to be "intelligent" and to simply understand the reasons for his actions.
    where is this excerpt from? I like it!
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Cheryl in Archer (ENFj)

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RuqLos5rNoA

    a bit of a hypertypical portrayal.

    p.s. that means atypical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    ESEs deprived of quality Ti will at some point flip and demand that others to be less stupid and stop making some particular mistakes in the way they are thinking. I've seen this happen a few.


    5. Ti: dual-seeking function of ESFj and program function of INTj
    ESE is able to accept information only when it's provided in a clear logical form. It is common for people of this type to issues requests for a logical explanation in terms of general patterns of specific life events. Such explanation ESE receives from the LII, who gives clear, unambiguous answers and interpretation, puts the dots over the "i's", and shows good understanding of problems that concern the ESE. Not receiving information of this kind, ESE starts to demand of people around him to be "intelligent" and to simply understand the reasons for his actions.
    This is really easy for me to understand.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Quote Originally Posted by chemical View Post
    I think it's very useful to contrast the dynamic and static natures of these. The dynamic way is a lot more akin to a progression, algorithm, and so forth, rather than an underlying set of laws governing the progression. The underlying subjective factors to interacting with dynamic reality, thus, must be perceived rather than known rationally. I think rationality deals most directly with the subject as a figure with identity (because rationalization requires a conscious deliberation, and when subjectively oriented, the subject behind this deliberation becomes the determining factor for how the judgment proceeds) whereas the subjective factor of perception notes how this theoretical entity called identity displays itself through the progression of various subjective states, hence the subject is viewed more fluidly. Hence why Fe coupled with introverted perception seems like an "expression" sometimes more than a judgment, though through this expression is a certain kind of judgment.

    So the one major component of Ti dual-seeking is seeking out someone who sees things statically - it's such an incredibly different mindset. Ti doesn't even respond to objective states truly, whereas Fe is nothing without an objective state to respond to. Hence they get very out of touch with the sense of having a stable inner core sometimes, and it's almost as if the dual's presence makes them aware of it, providing welcome context to their normally Fe mindset.

    If a Fe-lead is really intellectual with logical matters, he/she is more likely employing Te as such, not processing mainly in the Ti mindset. Which is perfectly OK - a lot of highly theoretical stuff can be approached using the Te-Ni block of say, ESE (used as example since that would be Saberstorm's dual).
    This is NOT easy for me to understand. (I am EIE, what is your type?)
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Iris, I'm of course willing to clarify anything you should be curious about. I'm unsure how type-related these things are, since I think type's a very general thing and how two people of the same type convey the same information can differ itself enough that one instance will work well for one party and another simply won't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chemical View Post
    Iris, I'm of course willing to clarify anything you should be curious about. I'm unsure how type-related these things are, since I think type's a very general thing and how two people of the same type convey the same information can differ itself enough that one instance will work well for one party and another simply won't.
    Thanks, Chemical. Of course it's not you, it's ME.

    But I was mostly just responding to this thread, "What does Ti dual-seeking look like," with some actual dual seeking behavior.

    I will add that I always notice your posts and greatly want to understand them. They are very thoughtfully written and full of what looks like interesting and useful information. But I usually give up.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    This is NOT easy for me to understand. (I am EIE, what is your type?)
    He's likely LII so his has a lot of tangential with it, plus this is theory. would be a lot more grounded and practical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyx2OxenFree
    He's likely LII so his has a lot of tangential with it, plus this is theory. would be a lot more grounded and practical.
    Would you say Ne subtype or Ti, just out of curiosity?

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    tangent: I wonder if people actually feel like they get better dual-seek information via their benefactors than semi-duals?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chemical View Post
    Would you say Ne subtype or Ti, just out of curiosity?
    Oh, I wouldn't know. Taking a shot in the dark, . Where are you leaning, yourself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyx2OxenFree
    Where are you leaning, yourself?
    I'm leaning Ti too. I tend to think I'm pretty extremely rationalization-oriented, and I fit the inert introvert pretty well overall (I once talked to silke briefly on this).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyx2OxenFree View Post
    He's likely LII so his has a lot of tangential with it, plus this is theory. would be a lot more grounded and practical.
    There is always the possibility that I am just dumb as a stump.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    There is always the possibility that I am just dumb as a stump.
    Yeah, probably.


    No, you aren't the first to have said that regarding his posts; I could see it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sevjenn View Post
    @Iris what about woof's texts on his theory?
    Haha, Woof's is wayyyy harder for me to grasp than Chemical's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sevjenn View Post
    @Iris what about woof's texts on his theory?
    Woof's theory is fascinating to me. This is because of his personal charisma and writing style. SEEs always have that effect on me. They can intrigue me with whatever shiny object they dangle in front of me. Sadly, his theory is too difficult to retain my attention.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Quote Originally Posted by sevjenn View Post
    chemical's posts are very well-structured and i think that the difficulty lies in the fact that he/she uses a lot of big ,condensed words holding meaning (and look alike). i guess most of us will have to pause and reread the text 2-3 times ,zoom in/out and build up on the understanding each time. however, it gets easier since the terminology repeats itself and patterns can be drawn. i think that "sparser" texts can be just as tough and oftentimes i feel as if i've missed something since the words/meaning ratio can be off in an inversed way (compared to chemical's writings). imo, it is information that one has to synthesize vs information that has to be taken apart in order to make sense, with variations in between.
    I agree, I told myself to just slow down and concentrate. Then I ran into the word algorithm and couldn't remember what it meant. Then I quit. I need to stop being lazy.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Why is that? What does that mean? What do you mean? I don't understand.

    Usually it's concealed but eventually it comes out like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octo View Post
    Lots of questioning, lots of "why?", jumping to impulsive conclusions, lack of confidence in drawing logical conclusions/drawing analogies, appreciative of long-winded, detailed explanations
    Some of this is true, but I am not always going around asking why. A lot of the time I wait to see if my question will be answered as conversation progresses. I don't want to look dumb.

    I love analogies. I don't have trouble understanding them, I think they often make hard concepts easier to understand. I use them a lot when I am explaining ideas, and I am quite proud of myself if I come up with my own original analogy for some concept.

    I like detailed explanations. But I prefer concise detailed explanations. After listening to a long Si-related monologue from an EII friend, I start to glaze over. Even if I have some interest in the topic.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    Why is that? What does that mean? What do you mean? I don't understand.

    Usually it's concealed but eventually it comes out like that.
    As I mentioned in the above post, I don't go around asking those questions all of the time because I dont want to look dumb. Sometimes understanding unfolds as conversation progresses.

    I am full of questions when I am watching a movie, however, because I think it is important for me to have perfect understanding of what is being said and done, so that I will understand what is being said and done later in the movie. I don't want to miss anything. If a movie is very fast-paced, or the dialogue is mumbled and I cant understand it, it is a nightmare scenario for my movie-watching companion. I ask a thousand questions if I am watching a complicated movie at home, and I hiss my dual seeking questions into my companion's ear in the movie theater. I hate myself just rereading this paragraph.
    Last edited by Iris; 09-05-2014 at 04:51 AM.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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