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Thread: Fi as Distinct from Fe and Conventional Ethics

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    Default Fi as Distinct from Fe and Conventional Ethics

    Internal-Involved-Field-Static

    These are the Socionics terms that make up Fi. Unfortunately, you can't look up all these terms in a dictionary and piece the definitions together to get a useful understanding of Fi. I know for me I couldn't get any sense of the Fi despite being an Fi-leading type. Even after all the talks I've heard of it. Some of the more useless talks I've heard related Fi to ethics and relationships. Well, I dunno. If that's what Fi is really about, then I don't see how it can be a useful term to help with understanding people and their interpersonal dynamics.

    I've heard from Fe valuers how Fi can seem... not consistent. Which is really curious considering how Fi is a static function. For Fe people, I remember it being described that some things are just NOT okay to do. But, for Fi people, that thing can be okay or not okay. It depends.

    There are a bunch of other threads and posts and chats on Fi too. Some of them interesting. But, none could really give me any sense of awareness of Fi.

    That didn't really change until I got to know some Fi ego people more. Now I think I do have some understanding of it, and I think I can best explain it by going over how I think the people I've observed exhibit Fi. I'll start with woofwoofl.



    People familiar with woofwoofl in the chatbox will know how very readily he accepts just about anyone as cool. Seems about the same way with accepting things as awesome as well. Now how does this relate to Fi?

    It's starting to seem to me that Fi acts as a kind of... filter. There's gotta be a better word for it than that but I can't come up with one. It can sometimes seem like a lens meant to put things in a certain kind of light. I start with woofwoofl because his is easiest to explain. It is very straightforward. At least from what I can observe from his chatbox activities. It's as though woofwoofl is wearing cool shades that only cool light can shine through so woofwoofl sees most everyone as cool and acts accordingly. To be clear, I wouldn't say those cool shades are strapped to his face. It feels to me that with the right kind of trigger, woofwoofl will take off those shades and whip out another pair. What kind of light woofwoofl will see people in those shades I do not know.

    Okay, so that sounds pretty basic, I know. Surely that isn't the only way Fi can manifest, though. There's, I think, a more intricate seeming way someone can put these sort of Fi filters, lenses, or whatever such word you could use to relate to how Fi seems to act on things. From my impressions, I think dolphin uses Fi in a way that I can say is more intricate.



    I get the sense that a significant number of people hold the view of Fi as a rigid thing. A judgy thing that locks Fi users into a certain mentality. Yet, I'm starting to see how Fi can be a searching, open function.

    I've chatted with dolphin at length quite a few times. It's interesting. She can be very direct. But, um, if you want to really get what she's saying, you need to get a feel of her thought processes. That's why, I think, Ashton got into that kind of scuffle with dolphin in that one thread. Took what she said too literally to be able to really get what she was saying. My impression of that, anways.

    So these thought processes I mentioned are where Fi comes in. Rather than just a lens and seeing things in just that light and going from there, she puts things through all these sorts of filters. Feeling them out. Like that picture of a tree up there, viewed in the different seasons. It's still the same tree. But, the feel about it is different. How you approach that tree, look at it, think of it, will be different depending on the state you are viewing it from.

    That's what I feel part of dolphin's thought processes are and how Fi can work. She's sort of getting a feel for the proper sort of distance and such she has from a thing. A sort of searching through of an object by putting it through different kinds of lights, I guess.

    I hope I've communicated effectively what my current understanding of Fi is. It's a sort of viewing of something in a... kind of light (there's gotta be a better analogy than that) which determines how it should be approached and interacted with. The object itself can be completely the same, but how to interact with it can be different just from a different sort of view of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uniden View Post
    It's starting to seem to me that Fi acts as a kind of... filter. There's gotta be a better word for it than that but I can't come up with one. It can sometimes seem like a lens meant to put things in a certain kind of light. I start with woofwoofl because his is easiest to explain. It is very straightforward. At least from what I can observe from his chatbox activities. It's as though woofwoofl is wearing cool shades that only cool light can shine through so woofwoofl sees most everyone as cool and acts accordingly. To be clear, I wouldn't say those cool shades are strapped to his face. It feels to me that with the right kind of trigger, woofwoofl will take off those shades and whip out another pair. What kind of light woofwoofl will see people in those shades I do not know.
    You don't think that has anything to do with the Se function (and Fe perhaps)? The metaphor of wearing cool shades that makes everything cool sounds like Se expressing itself. Changing the shades seems like his way of adapting himself to other people and forming relations (Fe). It doesn't seem that complicated to me.

    You just don't think so? I certainly agree with you about Fi though. It's not what most seem to think it is. If you actually think I might know what I'm talking about, I'll try to explain Fi and see if you think you understand it. But you'd have to then ask.

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    It's Feeling, it isn't necessarily logically consistent no matter what variety it happens to be. However, if you mean the kind of consistency in valuing which you would expect, then you may be referring rather to rational vs irrational feelers (xFxp vs xFxj). Rational feelers would be consistent in values (which is not to say consistent in mood, of course), whereas irrational feelers make judgements based on pre-rational data, and thus are liable to change as new options emerge.

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    Haikus
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    I think rationality/irrationality is an overall feel, mentality, and temperament in someone, not specific attributes like if they are consistent or decisive not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poli View Post
    I think rationality/irrationality is an overall feel, mentality, and temperament in someone, not specific attributes like if they are consistent or decisive not.
    It's about whether they lead with perception of judgement. Some compensate better than others, but if we focus on the energy source primarily, we see that half of people see the judgement first, and consider perceptions around that, and others see the perception first, and then bring up judgements which would fit the perception.

    I think it goes without saying that none of this is 100% correlating with various habits people have, assuming it's the sort of habit that isn't just natural based on type considerations, e.g. emotional expressiveness when using Feeling. Basically, if something doesn't necessarily follow, it doesn't necessarily follow.

    The "overall feel" notion works somewhat, but that doesn't mean there aren't specific things that differentiate the two.

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Interesting how you describe it as a lens, it seems like a fitting analogy for Ji in general. The difference here between Ti and Fi would be between a cognitive lens, where cognitive information is filtered out, and an experiential/feeling one which filters out experiential information.

    Good post, thanks for that.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Dolphin is SeFi; before anything can pass to Fi it's first through Se;

    Fi is an outline and a hollow space; the outline is the developed moral code by which the person uses to judge (and yes, we are very rigid and categorical). An example of this is, I have formed my moral ideal of a loving relationship which consists of a couple who cares for one another and who shows their love with kindness, such as holding hands and other gestures of affection, especially in public; that is the black outline of Fi; the hollow space is filled with and when I observe relationships in reality and that helps affirm my ideal (the outline) of the morally formed ideal of relationship/conduct/tradition. SeFi types are firstly, more concerned with experiencing with objects than of doing what I do first. And, FiSe types are too concerned about reality of what's going on in their immediate environment to do any (looking past the concrete for meanings). In order to embody an ideal one must live it and with trying to surround themselves with people who meet her ideals or working with them to bring them to societal ideals because societal ideals can become the black framework of which Fi operates (as I've said above).

    There's also a personal relation to Fi, but one still tied to other human beings and objects; being a function which rids itself of objects and absorbs a few things into the depths of emotions, Fi has the capability, like me to sit across from a person, say who has Parkinson's, who she observes to shake and the very object of this person shaking is absorbed in her to deep levels so much so that the Fi mimics the reaction and may even, if it was ok to display this mirror like reaction, to do the very act of it herself (but in modern context this is seen and viewed as "not nice"); the very outside comes in and it sinks so deep that there becomes born an individual just like the one across from her inside as there is one on the outside, in front of her. Because of this, the Fi base type can not be around people as they are objects for long, she/I absorb them like a sponge and carry their pain deep inside of me because as soon as a person's born inside, it's not going to be removed.

    Now, the darkness to the Fi comes again with absorbing of a negative character/person/object deep within them and not being able to shake them off as something objective and outside themselves this results in lashes/confusingly mean things to come out.

    Fe types are object seeking in their atmospheres not have a moral formed idea to accept and judge external relationships and situations on.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 11-20-2011 at 05:32 AM.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Interesting how you describe it as a lens, it seems like a fitting analogy for Ji in general. The difference here between Ti and Fi would be between a cognitive lens, where cognitive information is filtered out, and an experiential/feeling one which filters out experiential information.

    Good post, thanks for that.
    Indeed, I was thinking the same thing.

    This is why Deltas have rose tinted glasses

    I really like the imagery you chose, Uniden. I think the way you described them is very fitting for each of them
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I enjoyed reading your perspective on Fi, Uniden, and look forward to your personal explanation of exhibiting/utilizing the function as an INFj.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uniden View Post
    So these thought processes I mentioned are where Fi comes in. Rather than just a lens and seeing things in just that light and going from there, she puts things through all these sorts of filters. Feeling them out. Like that picture of a tree up there, viewed in the different seasons. It's still the same tree. But, the feel about it is different. How you approach that tree, look at it, think of it, will be different depending on the state you are viewing it from.

    That's what I feel part of dolphin's thought processes are and how Fi can work. She's sort of getting a feel for the proper sort of distance and such she has from a thing. A sort of searching through of an object by putting it through different kinds of lights, I guess.

    I hope I've communicated effectively what my current understanding of Fi is. It's a sort of viewing of something in a... kind of light (there's gotta be a better analogy than that) which determines how it should be approached and interacted with. The object itself can be completely the same, but how to interact with it can be different just from a different sort of view of it.
    I just want to say that's how I am internally. That's what I would describe as the basis of all my motivations. It's the basis of my intellect, wanting to understand and appreciate everything, while solving problems that come up and seem impossible to solve. But I doubt any of you would consider me an ethical type...

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