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Thread: N>S vs S>N

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    Default N>S vs S>N

    half-man half-machine rush job translated

    preference for the new, inquisitiveness, curiosity. desire to research and experiment. the pursuit of discovery and invention => ONE OF THE 30 MAIN PROPERTIES OF N>S ACCORDING TO TALANOV

    preference is for the usual, mundane. investigation of the new which does not directly serve meeting ones vital needs does not give birth to enjoyment => ONE OF THE 30 MAIN PROPERTIES OF S>N ACCORDING TO TALANOV

    The low accuracy of perceptual recognition, even at high levels of mobilization and concentration, perceptual illusions and hallucinations, symptoms of schizotypy => ONE OF THE 30 MAIN PROPERTIES OF N>S ACCORDING TO TALANOV

    The high accuracy of perceptual identification, the lack of perceptual illusions, hallucinations or other symptoms of schizotypal kind => ONE OF THE 30 MAIN PROPERTIES OF N>S ACCORDING TO TALANOV

    Impoverished identification of surrounding objects of sensory information in parallel is also accompanied by reduced emotional and semantic richness of perceived image, that is, the deterioration of emotional apperception. One consequence of this is more frequent symptoms of depersonalization and derealization. These symptoms most often occur in the intuitive. feeling of numbness, deadness, emotional emasculation of the environment. => ONE OF THE 30 MAIN PROPERTIES OF N>S ACCORDING TO TALANOV

    Emotional apperception is well developed, people and objects are perceived almost always full of subjectively meaningful "taste" and meaning. The symptoms of derealization and depersonalization are not characteristic => > ONE OF THE 30 MAIN PROPERTIES OF S>N ACCORDING TO TALANOV

    Recogniton detectors are triggered more often than novelty detectors. The predominant feeling of familiarity and a good awareness of the environment. => S>N

    Weak filtering of images that penetrate the consciousness from the subconscious. => N>S

    S types use N too

    Rigid "narrowband" filtering of images that penetrate the consciousness from the subconscious. => S>N

    Broadband, low-selectivity of an associative processes. The multiplicity of associations. The associations are updated simultaneously in ones mind, or with a small time lag. Multiplicity of images that penetrate into the consciousness from the unconscious in response to a single stimulus. => N>S

    Narrowband, highly selective adjustment of the associative process. The singularity of image-response associations penetrating into consciousness. The number of images that penetrate from subconscious mind in response to a single stimulus is small. S>N

    The consequence of these associative rampages are the intellectual originality, vivid imagination and kind of thinking that gives birth to paradoxes that are to be resolved at a later time => N>S

    Slow decay of already actualized mental images and perceptual representations. Even potential obsession with them. => N>S

    Rapid decay of actualized mental images and perceptual representations. the lack of inclination to perceptual mental obsession => S>N.

    Propensity for motor compulsions and stereotyped (repetitive) movements. => N>S

    The absence of inclination to the motor compulsions and stereotyped (repetitive) movements. => S>N

    Low levels of motor dexterity, mobility and coordination. => N>S

    high level of motor dexterity, mobility and coordination. => S>N

    High-intensity constant mental work, dealing with a wide range of many associations to a stimulus, and combining these images ,exploring the association, creating a "product"; not only for this particular situation, but also as a reserve, including fictional situations. => N>S

    this is empiricism

    this can be property of Ne exclusively...but the empiricism can show it as N > S

    Mental work is fragmented over time. It deals with a small set of concrete. almost ready-made solutions are automatically selected . Consciousness creates and organizes the final product to the specific situation in anticipation of the speedy satisfaction of biological needs. => S>N

    In response to a single stimulus, there arise to from the consciousness a lot of options of possible reactions. => N>S

    Product, is born in mind as a response to a single stimulus. It is, as a rule, the only version of the reaction. S>N

    A strict linear sequence and logical completeness of all motor and cognitive actions. => S>N

    The process of information processing, rising from the subconscious response to an external perceptual signal, is constantly creating new values ​​(new qualities, discoveries, hypotheses, incongruity). They, in turn, stimulate the indicative activities and start new cycles of information processing involving the unconscious and consciousness, but without further use of external stimuli as the initial shock. => N>S

    The process of handling the images incoming from the subconscious mind is quick and dirty. quickly completed recognition, action, or evaluation (logical or emotional). The phase of exploring the images is weak and decays rapidly. Attention quickly returns to the real sensory environment or to ones body signals. => S>N

    Resources of attention, with allocations for parallel tracking of real sensory environment is not completely absent, but minimized. amplified by short individual flashes (for example when it's neccessary to put out the cigarette in an ashtray or to look around). Features of Intuitive's external focus can be described as "focused distraction" behavior or "twilight" of the external focus during the deliberation of any issue. => N>S

    the attention resources are most of the time intently focused on monitoring and studying of the external sensory environment. Multi-link cyclic associative process is not typical, even with conscious effort it quickly fades. => S>N

    In order to think through any problem it is best to locate oneself in the vicinity of intense sensory stimulation. External stimuli (for example, included a number of TVs). Background intuitive thought process often produces the most constructive ideas during meetings, watching TV, etc. where there is a lot of fuss => N>S

    In order to think through any problem, the optimal condition would be to locate oneself somewhere where there is minimal sensory stimulation (with eyes closed in silence or alone in a room). Otherwise, the imagination can not start because the subconscious signals are damped by external sensory stimuli.Stalin(very pronounced S>N type) used to periodically remove himself from the meetings. right into his chambers, in order to think things through. And he recommended the same to his subordinates. => S>N

    source http://www.newsocionicsmodel.narod.r...e_intuit.html/

    Abstract and speculative thinking. Easy grasp of "common sense". Quickly finding the common ground between the objects and phenomena. An active search for binding to the general principle of scattered unrelated objects. The constant tendency to generalize, being friendly to the highest possible philosophical discourse. Abstraction, generalization, speculation. => N>S

    The concreteness of thinking. Indifference to any philosophizing. Philosophical, moral, and partly scientific categories and generalizations seem to be idle chatter, devoid of any meaning. In a speech reduced the percentage of words and phrases that express the generalized abstractions. => S>N

    Abstract altruism. Tendency to think and care about the global world order and other global issues. Philosophical and global dreams and thoughts (about the meaning of life, , about optimal social world order, about fate of mankind and universe, etc.). Increased empathy, compassion, empathy and a sense of community with other people. Increased susceptibility to cosmopolitanism.Higher altruism of Intuitives, and their penchant for thinking about the global issues is, firstly, due to the reduction in their egocentric vital needs, and secondly - due to their penchant for abstraction and generalization, transcending the time and space altogether. => N>S

    Indifference to the emotions and interests of "others." Thinking about global issues is not typical. Rather, the focus is on taking care of oneself and one's blood relatives. the focus is on ones security and on interests of ones group. This is more important than any concern for the "common" good. Focusing on the "here and now". unwillingness and inability to integrate the worlds paste, present and future into one coherent picture, considering the task not worth the attention anyway. => S>N

    The relatively low level of needs and aspirations for social-status and power. Reduction of careerist motivations due to, firstly, a general decline in the immediate motivating force of egocentric vital needs, including social status and hunger for power. => N>S

    The high level of social status and power needs and aspirations. First, the desire for his graphic-high social status and the thirst for power with the ability to lord it over others - this is due to focus on primarily vital need. All the expensive and interesting sensory objects are in the real external world anyway so it also dramatically sharpens for him the importance of competition for "best place under the sun."It should be emphasized that this is correlated with "extroverted introvert," " logic ethics," "decisive judicious" and "democracy-aristocracy" as well. => S>N

    Frequent use of thoughts to the future and the past, the tendency to compare past, present and future; formation of abstract mental constructs that combine past, present and future together. High ability to both historical analysis and the prediction (foreknowledge, premonitions) of future events. => N>S

    Thoughts and interests are focused to a narrow time bandwidth. Weak capacity for historical analysis and forecast of the future. => S>N

    Higher absolute and differential sensitivity of sensory analyzers. Primarily, this advantage is reflected in taste and olfactory system (directly linked to the vital needs), - regarding the visual system - to a very small extent - auditory analyzer (see clusters 213-218) => S>N

    Weak visual memory (and memory, and recall). Memory loss for recent events (loss of memory). Difficulties in remembering the right words and names. => N>S

    Penchant for imagination, fantasy, dreaming, impracticalness. Thought-intensive work that is isolated from external stimuli and involves numerous cycles of exchange of information between the conscious and subconscious mind (memory) => N>S

    Weakness of the imagination, no fantasy and dreams, high practicality and realism. => S>N

    Other salient features of Intuitives are: a low level of aggressiveness, frequent blinking, blurred or "jumpy" view, mental dullness of tactile images, frequent dreams, tremor of the fingers, sweating, choking sensations, tendency to (bronchospasm), statistical dominance of right eye as a dominant eye. => N>S

    Other salient features of sensory are noteworthy: higher in comparison with the intuitive level of aggressiveness, a rare blinking (flashing eyes, and his inseparable closely), the brightness of the mental imagery of tactile representations, rare dreams tremor is uncharacteristic, sweating, and feelings of lack of air are also not characteristic, the relative statistical predominance of the left eye as a dominant eye. => S>N
    Last edited by Trevor; 10-29-2011 at 06:12 AM.

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    INSTRUCTIONS:

    if you're an intuitive type: read it and get an intuitive picture

    if you're a sensory type: read it and memorize

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    WTF? Talanov isn't all he's cracked up to be.

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    Probably many of them are correct for a relatively large population of N-S types...however, let's remember that for each temperament we have two points where N and S aren't very clearly differentiated. You can't expected an EP-Fi or IJ-Ti to relate to many of these points, imho.
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    I will lead the culling!

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    A lot of the S ones apply to Si but not to Se.
    Shock intuition, diamond logic.
     

    The16types.info Scientific Model

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ineffable View Post
    A lot of the S ones apply to Si but not to Se.
    If this is true then it might have to do with the methods they used, which were strictly empirical. These kind of methods allow for a many interesting thing to occur. For example; let us assume a hypothetical scenario where some property X is characteristic of Si exclusively i.e. it can be found only among Si types. This very methodology allows you to get the property X to be characteristic of Sensorics and uncharacteristic of Intuition because the methodology itself doesn't distinguish between possible subdivisions of Sensorics or Intuition but rather lumps all characteristics of particular types together and lets the more common ones emerge as characteristic of a whole group. ...long story short: if something is Si>All then it is S>N as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton
    These distinctions are fucking stupid.

    Ns sound like completely defective people who should be culled from the gene pool.
    Interesting that you say that. One can argue the opposite if one really wants to.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Probably many of them are correct for a relatively large population of N-S types...however, let's remember that for each temperament we have two points where N and S aren't very clearly differentiated. You can't expected an EP-Fi or IJ-Ti to relate to many of these points, imho.
    I agree with this.
    Last edited by Trevor; 10-29-2011 at 06:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Analyst Trevor View Post
    The relatively low level of needs and aspirations for social-status and power. Reduction of careerist motivations due to, firstly, a general decline in the immediate motivating force of egocentric vital needs, including social status and hunger for power. => N>S
    Not always true. Delta NF's are like this though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Analyst Trevor View Post
    If this is true then it might have to do with the methods they used, which were strictly empirical. These kind of methods allow for a many interesting thing to occur. For example; let us assume a hypothetical scenario where some property X is characteristic of Si exclusively i.e. it can be found only among Si types. This very methodology allows you to get the property X to be characteristic of Sensorics and uncharacteristic of Intuition because the methodology itself doesn't distinguish between possible subdivisions of Sensorics or Intuition but rather lumps all characteristics of particular types together and lets the more common ones emerge as characteristic of a whole group. ...long story short: if something is Si>All then it is S>N as well.
    This generates side-effects on the long-run: confusion between Si and Se. We got quite some historical examples of such mistakes, I wouldn't do that.

    Now, even for this scope of distinguishing Intuition from the others, this kind of reasoning is incorrect, if you agree with me: Se types, who don't fit with this "Sensing" will possibly be typed Intuitive, depending on what inconsistencies are left unsolved. One example is: "Tendency to think and care about the global world order and other global issues. ..." => N>S. In this case, IMO, Se is way higher than Si (even than Ne), especially when we talk about social distribution or politics.
    ---

    One thing that I forgot to mention previously, at times the description is flatly wrong, since it forgets to take in consideration the arrangement of function, to say the least. Take these fragments:
    The relatively low level of needs and aspirations for social-status and power. Reduction of careerist motivations due to, firstly, a general decline in the immediate motivating force of egocentric vital needs, including social status and hunger for power. => N>S
    The high level of social status and power needs and aspirations. First, the desire for his graphic-high social status and the thirst for power with the ability to lord it over others - this is due to focus on primarily vital need. All the expensive and interesting sensory objects are in the real external world anyway so it also dramatically sharpens for him the importance of competition for "best place under the sun."It should be emphasized that this is correlated with "extroverted introvert," " logic ethics," "decisive judicious" and "democracy-aristocracy" as well. => S>N
    The first sentence is contradictory to the actual case of Ni-Creative (XIE). In the second, yes it advices to consider other dichotomies, which is understandable by someone who actually knows in advance the characteristics of the types but inconclusive for someone who doesn't [1]... Since Ni-Creative are actually some of the most status-craving - as Se-Base - we end-up with separate cases that don't relate to the S/N distinction, but to the whole model A architectonic.
    ---

    [1] - and to my mind rendering these descriptions rather useless.
    Shock intuition, diamond logic.
     

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