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Thread: Clearing up some misconceptions on Se dominants

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    Default Clearing up some misconceptions on Se dominants

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ineffable View Post
    one main difference between a Se-Base and a Ne-Base is that a Se Base never pees against the wind, even when that's where the toilet is. Although maybe I'm wrong, I can't imagine an SEE (as Gammas in general) outside the system, protesting against the status quo.
    I think this is completely off. I can think of many Se dominant types, both that Ive known and that are famous that are very against the status quo. Some completely against it for example. I think this misconception is due due the fact that in MBTI creativity is associated with N and habit with S. But this isnt socionics and Ive seen many Se egos that are very creative. Si egos Ive known can be very into challenging the status quo as well. I dont see it as type related, some people are just against the status quo for reasons other then fucntional ordering.

    Some examples of famous Se dominants who challenged the status quo:

    Caligula
    Vladimir Lenin
    Godfired Wilhelm Leibniz
    Richard Wagner
    Howard Stern
    Madonna
    James Brown
    Gene Simmons(of Kiss)
    Benitto Mussolini
    Winston Churchill
    Jim Morrison
    John Wayne Gacy
    GG Allin
    Courtney Love
    Leigh Bowery
    Serge Gainsburg
    (Possibly)Henry Rollins

    Please lets not debate these typings too much, I mean if you think almost none of these people are Se base, then provide what type you think they are, but dont get sidetracked; this discussion is about Se base types challenging the status quo and while concrete examples are pertinent it is not the heart of the discussion.

    What do you think?

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    don't feed the Bolts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labocat View Post
    don't feed the Bolts.
    He already told me he wasnt interested in this discussion personally...I just think its a misconception that alot of people may or may not have.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    believe me... ONLY Bolt has that misconception.

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    I always thought that Se-doms were the ones who tended to WANT to change the status quo.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by labocat View Post
    don't feed the Bolts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    This.
    Thirded.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I always thought that Se-doms were the ones who tended to WANT to change the status quo.
    ^

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I always thought that Se-doms were the ones who tended to WANT to change the status quo.
    Yeah - isn't the stereotype

    delta = status quo
    beta = revolution

    ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    Yeah - isn't the stereotype

    delta = status quo
    beta = revolution

    ?
    I think that stereotype is off for deltas since Aldous Huxley(IEE IMO, Im not just saying that because hes typically typed as one) was very anti-status quo. I think the stereotype is right in putting betas down as revolutionary, though. Basically the thing whith delta is that they dont wanna change situations just their perception while being comfortable is otherwise unjust situations whereas betas wanna see their ideals manifested in reality and since they are strong willed theyre likely to fight for that change.

    In any case, I dont think dis/liking the status quo is type related.

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    I agree, there are generally betas and deltas on both sides of the status quo. It was just meant to be an illustration of how the dominant line of thought on the forum isn't Se = status quo...
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Personally I think Aldous Huxley was Alpha NT; the IEE benchmark is actually a different Huxley. Can't remember the name but I actually made the same mistake.

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    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    I don't believe this misconception exists at all
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I don't believe this misconception exists at all
    Well appearntly it did for the perosn I quoted. Even if there are people who have this misconception, honestly now, why would they come out of the bushes?

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    Ne's tend to be inventive, thus a they got a fresher approach to many situations that Se's tend to be conventional. Conforming is conventional, not to say Se's wouldn't find conventional ways to fight the power.

    When I think of any Se-ego stereotype, they're all conventional, conservative or such.

    Many Se-dom activists seem to have this real fighting attitude like "Let's throw rocks at the police" or "occupy that McDonalds." whereas Ne's think of catchy phrases. Dunno

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Ne's tend to be inventive, thus a they got a fresher approach to many situations that Se's tend to be conventional. Conforming is conventional, not to say Se's wouldn't find conventional ways to fight the power.

    Well I guess your posting this proves you go against the grain what does say about your type? To me, Nothing

    When I think of any Se-ego stereotype, they're all conventional, conservative or such.
    Yeah but thats all it seems to be to me - a stereotype. Have you observed any actual Se egos in action? Or what makes you think this other than stereotypes?

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    Typhon, you misunderstood Ineffable.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    Well I guess your posting this proves you go against the grain what does say about your type? To me, Nothing
    Almost every manifestation in me is to be counted as evidence. Political beliefs, activism and such don't tell much for sure, but anti-conformism can tell something (not anything for sure) about a person. Maybe something about temperament.

    Seems like betas and ILE's are very prone to be loud and proud activists waiting to be heard.

    Generally, I find it more interesting how different types do it, not what they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    Yeah but thats all it seems to be to me - a stereotype. Have you observed any actual Se egos in action? Or what makes you think this other than stereotypes?
    Not valueing Ne for one. I'd say Ne's tend to be real open minded as they see lots of possibilities. This is not to deny nor confirm my belief in the accurateness of that stereotype.

    I must say that the most visible anarchists are Se-doms. Punk rockers are just so beta.
    Last edited by Aquagraph; 10-23-2011 at 05:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    Typhon, you misunderstood Ineffable.
    Its The ineffable, and what did I misunderstand? It seems pretty starightforward to me.

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    Haha you're funny. Let's have sex.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Lets not and say we did.

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    Trying to Easy A me? Not unless you Emma Stone.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Look I got rejected by Reuben, I think Im gonna cry now no wait I have better things to do.

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    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    I liked this thread, then Reuben came up with something to say.

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    I'm sorry.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Personally I think Aldous Huxley was Alpha NT; the IEE benchmark is actually a different Huxley. Can't remember the name but I actually made the same mistake.
    Yep the IEE Huxley is Thomas Henry Huxley, Darwin's supporter.

    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Ah, ok. But I meant Aldous Huxley, the novelist, is IEE. I think its an easy mistake to make since Aldous is the most famous of the Huxleys, when someone says "IEE=Huxley" its misleading since one autotomatically thinks of Aldous...

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    J Edgar Hoover
    Madonna

    both are SEE

    both obsessed with control and power; being the high man on the totem pole.

    http://www.totem-pole.net/images/totem_pole_3.jpg

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    It might not be type related at all. For all I Know, Madonna got raped by 15 howler monkeys when she was eight and just barely died but was saved just in the nick of time by Anderson Cooper with his shirt off and miraculously somehow it made the woman tough as rocks, while still keeping her compassion- and so, she was able to become famous and powerful and incredibly wealthy. How does anybody know that it's not something weird like that?

    I don't view Se as bullying... although it's true that I do like dominant, rough-ish more intense sex but who doesn't. It's kinda really boring if you're just holding hands like fred penner's place all day. Also Se is about being static, and you know- it's hard to bully somebody when you're more frozen into a certain perspective, just like your duals and semi-duals are. This you know sort of makes the empathy between them naturally entwined and pure. If I talk to a Se-ego, we always end up being highly and deeply empathetic with each other even if it's been years since we last communicated. And then with another type, we just aren't on the same page emotionally or something and just getting the groceries together feels like climbing mount Everest.

    Well it's mostly a thing with harmony I guess. You have Ni which is dynamic and Se which is static. The INFp is dynamic and seeks to be static. You always become what you seek. It's just natural. So the INFp ends up being more caught up in a picture then moving fast like a narcissistic california orange (copyright dolphin and me). And the ESFp or ESTp is static, but seeks to be dynamic. You always become what you seek. So they become more 'move around a lot' and more real world ish. And when the two click, they just cover up each other's weak points well and create a harmonious flow of power that is able to conquer reality instead of being controlled by said reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    It might not be type related at all. For all I Know, Madonna got raped by 15 howler monkeys when she was eight and just barely died but was saved just in the nick of time by Anderson Cooper with his shirt off and miraculously somehow it made the woman tough as rocks, while still keeping her compassion- and so, she was able to become famous and powerful and incredibly wealthy. How does anybody know that it's not something weird like that?
    Lol I think it probably is.

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Ne=bitching about the status quo, but not taking action
    Se=embracing the status quo, thriving in it. The words "smuggle", "bribe" and "sexual favour" are se-related.
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Se=embracing the status quo, thriving in it.
    U wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Se=embracing the status quo, thriving in it. The words "smuggle", "bribe" and "sexual favour" are se-related.
    Make your own status quo!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Make your own status quo!
    Redefine your status quo. Unrelated.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    I think I agree, Se-ego's seem more like the type to just do things with determination, whether or not they follow or the system or not really depends on if they support it enough. An Ne type may be able to think of how to change things, or the potential for things to be better, more easily, but I think a Se-type is still able to think of such things, and still able to consider something unreasonable and worth protesting against. Ultimately, Se types can definitely protest against the status-quo.
    Warm Regards,



    Clowns & Entropy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    I think this is completely off. I can think of many Se dominant types, both that Ive known and that are famous that are very against the status quo. Some completely against it for example. I think this misconception is due due the fact that in MBTI creativity is associated with N and habit with S. But this isnt socionics and Ive seen many Se egos that are very creative. Si egos Ive known can be very into challenging the status quo as well. I dont see it as type related, some people are just against the status quo for reasons other then fucntional ordering.
    I never made the alleged claim that you dispute, nor the strict association between habit and S. This is a misinterpretation of my statement, maybe you should have asked for details first, but anyway it is a good subject for discussion. When I talk about ths status quo, I talk about means, not purposes. It appears that by "the system" you understand the entities in power, based on the connotations of the notion, but I used it with the sense of the means of the epoch. Se Egos use what's concrete, identifiable in the system, tested and working, with definite qualities and strenths. The cow that actually gives you milk, not the whatever wild animal that could end-up giving more milk based on intangible laws of evolution.

    My point was that Se types are least inclined to try to force onto others something too distant in respect to both time and nature. This actually takes their kind of credibility (and therefore power) away from them. For instance, the reasons for the struggle for emancipation of different classes was never their domain. But obviously, if this is taken too literally, one misses the actual point: this doesn't mean a Se would oppose such movements, because they see the concrete half, the part about struggle and changes of power, openings for opportunities, the reason being irrelevant. A human commotion can be caused by totally different things, say either a piece of playstation or an unusual discovery, it's irrelevant, the absolute part of it is the movement and the outcome.

    So misinterpreting the above you could say that creativity and innovation would be normally avoided by Se types? Not necessarily, if these are trendy, familiar and profitable (like modern art), they are valued by Se types (obviously), being conservative meaning pissing against the wind in this case, and the vice-versa. Novely VS conservatism do not literally relate to Ne and Se, but to the actual concordance beetween one's attitude and contemporary realities.

    I'm not aware of Se types being people trying to do things "differently", it's against it's nature, the things that are good, known and working. Returning to feminism, because that was my point in nanashi's thread, this is a battle with windmills as seen through Se; unless you have something concrete to earn from it (ie become a leader, have a job in consulting, etc), it is just mental masturbation over meanings with no practical use.
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    I know Se types who follow the status quo, and Se types who just do their own thing, or fight against it. I also know Ne types who fight the status quo, and Ne types who just do their own thing, or fight against it. I don't think this is an Se vs Ne thing.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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  39. #39
    EffyCold The Ineffable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    Some examples of famous Se dominants who challenged the status quo:

    Caligula
    Vladimir Lenin
    Godfired Wilhelm Leibniz
    Richard Wagner
    Howard Stern
    Madonna
    James Brown
    Gene Simmons(of Kiss)
    Benitto Mussolini
    Winston Churchill
    Jim Morrison
    John Wayne Gacy
    GG Allin
    Courtney Love
    Leigh Bowery
    Serge Gainsburg
    (Possibly)Henry Rollins
    Stumbled upon this while looking for Leibniz. Where did you get this uninspired idea from, that he was a Se Ego?

    I think he was ILE (possibly LII) and that you need to read some facts about him before making an opinion.
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  40. #40
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Ne=bitching about the status quo, but not taking action
    Se=embracing the status quo, thriving in it. The words "smuggle", "bribe" and "sexual favour" are se-related.
    I will complain about things that are not right in society and every once in a while stick up for the underdog or the lost cause, but it just so happens that what I fight for is that, the lost cause. I seem to not get heard or valued maybe because the things I care about causes some sort of paralysis in human beings, they know certain things aren't right, like wars and mass murder of innocent people, but they would rather not hear it because it makes their lives sad and who wants to be sunk down by thoughts of events to people and places that are far from their inner circle or their personal lives; I mean, think about it, those blue fish tuna, being killed off by Japanese and Chinese fisher people is not a problem in their back yards and it's not going to matter to them because they probably don't eat blue fish any way.

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