Ashton: SLE-Ti 8w7 sx/sp

[Ezra]

It's clear from the Gamma exodus to socionics workshop (or off the radar entirely) that this forum was never a haven for Gammas, Ashton is not actually Gamma (neither is CPig). Not to mention various remarks a few years ago from Gammas that if Ashton were to be unbanned, they would leave. Gammas just don't like Ashton. So given that he's undoubtedly Se/Ni, that makes him Beta. I added a poll for your consideration, but I don't even expect it to be very balanced.

niffweed has a good rationale for the socionics aspect here (my additions in brackets):

crude, abrasive, little interest in or physical well-being [part of Ashton's own rationale that he is Si PoLR - his Si devaluing is obvious, and all it proves is that he is a Se type, with which only the most clueless would disagree]. highly impulsive and outwardly directed persona, focuses basically on activating others around him. [entirely agree with that, and it is somewhat antithetical to the LIE; definitely a Beta feel to it] has a sort of quasi-theoretical bent which is not really that theoretical at all in substance; mostly it seems like hot air [probably Ashton's rationale for Te leading]. he has great difficulty focusing himself to talk about theoretical things, including in socionics -- where his natural state of mind is to prod the people around him and state opinions with little justification [very similar to what I do, and I've contrasted myself with real-life Expat, who is an obvious real LIE, and who can talk for FUCKING AGES about one topic. I can't really do that, and Ashton sure as shit can't either]. his manner of coming up with people's typings is often impulsive and poorly considered, and it's very reasonable to see where -DS could be involved in his thought process [again, very me] -- his association with allie and the subsequent transformation of his socionics typings into a more socially fluid system is an example. not open to negotiating the structural precepts of his ideas to anyone without clique status.

many people make reasonably convincing arguments for EIE. i think the information above points basically to an overall thought process and an emphasis on Se/Ni, and so i moderately prefer SLE (though many aspects of EIE make good sense as well). some people who presumably know ashton better have told me vehemently and point blank that he's not -directed, saying that ashton's displays of represent an online persona which doesn't translate into real life; not having met him, i can't evaluate that assertion. either way, ashton's style of interacting with people is clearly beta-oriented.

I've seen him on camera, and the "online persona" wank is easy to debunk. Definitely Ti subtype if he is an SLE. As for Enneagram, he posted a thread on EIDB a while ago asking if he was 8w7 or 7w8. I have no doubt he's an MBTT (self-typed) INTJ SLE - so is esper's husband - and the idea of an INTJ 7w8 is ridiculous, whereas 8w7 makes more sense.

As for variant, his presence and level of command he has over his troops over at socionix is unbelievable, almost enviable. How he has managed to get people to believe in him and what he's saying is definitely an EIE or Eight thing, and sx Eights are the best at doing this (there are some Eights on typewatch, and we're all sp Eights, maybe with a few sx Eights, and I couldn't imagine them having half the impact Ashton does). An LIE sure as shit wouldn't have the level of impact he does - they're not inspirational at all. He'll say that he doesn't have any impact at all; that they make their own decisions etc. BULLSHIT - the whole point of the sx Eight is that they command a level of respect regardless of whether or not they seem low key (as the sx/sp is in comparison to the sx/so). Pure power play for Ashton; he loves the control he has. His lackeys (probably mostly Beta NFs) are in awe of him like he's a fucking god and he LOVES it. Watch him respond to me that this is not the case. Just watch it. But he knows internally I have him down to a T. Why? Because we're virtually the same type (only the stacking is different).

[FDG]

It's not like quoting niffweed's rationale gives you any credibility...

[Gilly]

Ashton is probably not SLE.

[Capitalist Pig]

[. . .] Ashton is not actually Gamma (neither is CPig).

Duh, it's already been decided I'm ESE.

[Ezra]

It's not like quoting niffweed's rationale gives you any credibility...

I don't care about credibility. I think his rationale is good. What's your issue with it?

Ashton is probably not SLE.

What do you think he is?

Duh, it's already been decided I'm ESE.

I think you make a good LSI.

[mfckr]

Why are people starting threads about me? Stop being drama queens and fuck off.

[Ezra]

Why are people starting threads about me? Stop being drama queens and fuck off.

ooh how gamma of you

[Ezra]

It's just annoying and like some typically Joy bullshit.

I think this subforum is designed to give opinions about type. Hence what I'm doing. You're definitely not an LIE. It's worth convincing a few heads here.

[Aiss]

xIE.

[Creepy-male]

How does any of what you're doing here speak of being a Serious type, Ashton?

[Mediator Kam]

What, because I dislike being talked about and having to deal with mischaracterizations of me? Yeah, that sounds great.

I felt the same way when people doubted my self-typing. Come join SEI. We have cookies.

[Capitalist Pig]

I think you make a good LSI.

Nope. I'm ESE.

[Jarno]

LIE-Ni fits pretty well I think.

[Wynch]

It may wish to be noted by whomever takes an interest that in the original poll there were 4 votes for gamma that I had to delete in order to expand the poll options. It's probably safe to assume that those votes were for LIE

[FDG]

How does any of what you're doing here speak of being a Serious type, Ashton?

Yeah Ashie, you need to make a sadface while writing, that'd make you a serious type

[Blaze]

my opinion of ashton's type is not a strong one. i don't have a big impression. he seems more logical than ethical though.

i thought i was an IEE for years (MBTI in my 20's) absolutely convinced of it. i was influenced by cultural expectations that women should be ethical, although i would not have put it that way at the time.

self typings are important since we don't have good tests. on the other hand, it's good to take one's own self typing with a grain of salt....there might be things operating within you that push you to want to be different than you really are...and then you confuse wanting to be different with actually being different and end up with a false self typing.

speaking generally, not related to ashton here. socionics is a program of rigorous honesty. taking a look at that nasty polr and role function, those childish dual seeking and hidden agenda needs is hard. it's hard to own them when they are true....much easier to self type as another type.

anyway, when i was younger, i think i knew deep down inside i wasn't ethical. but i was raised in a family that expected Fi. so i tried and tried for years. i thought i could learn to be ethical. well, not on my own steam i couldn't. i have improved slightly being around some Fe types though.

the whole point of this theory is self knowledge...you've got to be ready to look squarely at yourself. socionics is not for the timid that's for sure.

[Tom]

SLE? Not by the very short hair of my kinny, kin, kin!

[stanprollyright]

LIE-Ni fits pretty well IMO, but you could make a convincing case for EIE. I don't see SLE at all.

[stanprollyright]

"no serious type would ever use an emoticon."

Tell that to the female IEEs.

[FDG]

Tell that to the female IEEs.

mistyped EIE

[Absurd]

I like how you call Ashton, FDG. Mraoow!

[sarinana]

SLE is very likely taking in mind that Ashton types Ceasar as his identical.

[silverchris9]

xIE.

Correct (as usual). Eie is the only other type I'd consider. And if he wants to have an aversion to Fe, I say let him. That's as valid as aversion to Te for him.

[717495]

LIE? I don't see it. He's definitely not the same type as Expat and pretty much acts like all the other SLEs here, with creative Ti. His conception of Te/Fi and Ti/Fe is flawed.

I think Ti-SLE might work better than Se-SLE, but I don't have a knowledge of the subtypes. I just know that he's an SLE, might be EIE, but doubt it. I'd put SLE first. He doesn't have any Te in his ego, or value of Te. I don't understand why people think he does.

He seems to want to retype all the Gammas as other types to defend his self typing, or to feel better about it, or something. Like he retyped Expat as LSE, Diana as EII, and niffweed, aixelsyd as LII, etc, and kind of just mistypes everyone. He gets along the best with Betas, that's for certain.

I think you make a good LSI.

I think Cpig is probably LSI too. He reminds me a ton of Abbie, Tom, and a few other LSIs, and gets along the best with Betas.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[717495]

I think types have more of an active perception of their PoLR, first of all because it's the vulnerable function and they have to be on the watch, and because PoLR is a conscious function.

I think you're thinking of the "ignoring" function, where someone almost completely ignores it and has a sort of unspoken disgust towards it, because they're not actually bad at it and don't have to keep watch, but chose to just ignore because of the destructive contrast to their dominant function--similarly to what I think of Ne, pretty much exactly how Ashton sees Si, and how LSIs like Abbie, Tom, possibly some other people I'm considering as LSI, have towards Te.

How he choses to type Expat as the same type as these LSIs is beyond me, and I've already asked them why they think Expat and Ezra are Te-ESTj, and I didn't get any sort of reason for that. It's obviously wrong, again. I think they said because Ezra is young and immature, where as Expat is older. Well, I'm pretty young and I relate much more to Expat than I do any of those SLEs--and one of my best friends is an LIE, and he's my age. A younger Expat is certainly not the same thing as Ezra, and there's no way Ashton and Expat should both be Te ego. I think most will agree that Expat is an LIE, and to say Ashton is the same type? Doesn't make any sense. Expat's level of Te is tons greater than Ashton's, who doesn't even seem to care for Te.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[717495]

This is just more Ti layman's logic. First of all, it's obviously wrong that I don't know what my PoLR is and that I don't have conscious awareness of it. My PoLR is one of the main reasons why I adhere to this type.

Secondly, you're thinking that everyone into Socionics uses the same conception and terms. I think it's pretty obvious that some people here don't know what PoLR or HA means, and would probably assign some other element to it because they're afraid of admitting to having a real PoLR, which I think for Ashton, Fi is obvious. Why people don't want to admit to this, I have no idea. Especially for Se ego Betas, they don't want to be known as "sissy." They don't want to accept real weakness as applicable to Socionics, where that's basically what Socionics deals with. I think intellectuals here who read about Socionics will know what I'm talking about.

[stanprollyright]

This is just more Ti layman's logic.

This is the second time I've seen you use this term, which I find to be misleading. The nature of logic is that things are either valid (logical) or not (fallacious) given the information at hand. A layman is an uneducated person, who even though he has less information at hand, his logic can be just as sound as the educated person. What you mean is "your logic is fallacious" or "you don't have enough information to come to the right conclusion," not "your logic is uneducated" which makes no fucking sense. [/meaningless rant about semantics]

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Gilly]

Ashton is not SLE. Ashton is LIE. Get over it.

[717495]

This is the second time I've seen you use this term, which I find to be misleading. The nature of logic is that things are either valid (logical) or not (fallacious) given the information at hand. A layman is an uneducated person, who even though he has less information at hand, his logic can be just as sound as the educated person. What you mean is "your logic is fallacious" or "you don't have enough information to come to the right conclusion," not "your logic is uneducated" which makes no fucking sense. [/meaningless rant about semantics]

A layman who tries to use logic to prove something uses "layman's logic." You can use logic without addressing facts.

Ashton is not SLE. Ashton is LIE. Get over it.

Why do you think he's Te dominant? What I can tell is that he misrepresents what Te actually is, and relates too much to Se and more to Ti than Te. I honestly don't believe he's really LIE. It's sort of ridiculous at this point in knowing him. If people don't really know what an LIE is, and are going to call him the LIE exemplar, I don't know what to say. It's an ignorant use of Socionics.

Ashton gets along great with Betas too, and there aren't many Gammas who seem to really respect him or his motives, or how he goes about expressing himself. Those Gammas he retyped as Delta and Alpha, for example.

[Gilly]

lol Ezra is so delusional, it's funny.

[xerx]

There's no... pussy in any of it.

There is. A little.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[xerx]

Oh yeah, the elusive promise of duality... but idk, that's more of a long-term relationship goal. Not exactly something I can use to start up a harem with or some other megalomaniacal end.

I meant when hitta posts porn.

[Gilly]

What command? What troops? What are you talking about? While that sounds exciting as fuck,

lmfao

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[717495]

Ezra has a good point, through and through, even if it sounds a little overexaggerated. I have a lot to say about Ezra's points, I think they're good points. I can find a lot of information to back up why I think Ashton is definitely a Beta, Fe/Ti valuer, but it would take a lot of time gathering all of that and I am starting to lose interest on the matter, and just want to speak generally. I am kind of lazy. I think those who know he's an SLE will probably know what I'm talking about, because I figure most of those people study the material and have reason to say SLE, and I think a lot of people saying LIE don't really know why. They're going by more of a hunch that he doesn't seem like other Betas or something, even though I think Beta is the quadra he fits into the best. I still don't see anyone trying to actually defend and explain how he's Te. Just a lot of silly talk.

Aixelsyd, you bring up a good point about sort of letting it go, and go along with whatever seems factually accurate from second opinions, which does seem to sort of change, and something I've adhered to often. That's kind of what I'm inclined to do too, but Asthon's reluctance to do so and really stick with the consistency of his system and not consider the facts, doesn't make LIE stand out to me. The forum opinions just don't seem to be making any point as to why he's LIE. He comes across to have usage of all Beta values, and like I said, retyping real Gammas, putting them in another quadra, typing certain Betas he appears to like more than others, as Gamma--like Allie and Cpig.

This experience has sort of changed my perception of "the consensus," and there's been sufficent examples as to why I shouldn't trust it.

But anyway, since you were kind of unsure about his typing, I'm wondering why you're somewhat hesitant to think he's SLE, even though you have usually assumed he is? What facts seem to preclude that he's a Te type? I've been trying to get a straight answer out of people--and I figure I'd ask you because you are a Te type and can probably provide some useful insight to me.

[Gilly]

Poli you are so full of shit that it is almost hurting me to not rip into you right now, but honestly I just don't give enough of a fuck.