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Thread: Hey Tcaud!

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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Default Hey Tcaud!

    (or at least I think this idea is Tcaud's. Maybe not; I can't find it on wikisocion to be sure).

    Have you ever noticed that your concept of transcendent vs. immanent map rather neatly onto Yeats' concept of the double gyre? I'm too lazy/busy to link to a picture of the double gyre (if you google 'yeats double gyre' it comes right up), but the idea is that there's one thing that looks like a diamond---the maximum diameter is reached in the middle (which can be conceived of as the meeting place of the two halves of the diamond. The minimum diameter occurs at the extremes. Then there's another thing (superimposed on the first, but that's not important), which looks like an hourglass---the maximum diameter is reached at the extremes (when the two halves are farthest apart), and the minimum occurs at the center.

    This fits with the concept of transcendent vs. immanent (which I've long thought to be the most interesting part of the rather convoluted theory of supersocionics). A transcendent personality is one which favors reconciliation of opposing viewpoints---it reaches its maximum at the center between two opposing principles. Yeats aligns this with the sun---objectivity, reason, Apollo, collectivity, etc. An immanent personality is one which favors the extreme of either side of a dichotomy---it reaches it's maximum at the extreme distance from its opposing principle. Yeats aligns this with the moon---subjectivity, individuality, creativity, Dionysus.

    So then, the subjective, creative, solipsistic individual is the one that seeks to go as far as he can in his own direction. The more broad-based, delineating, group-focused individual is the one that seeks to reconcile opposing viewpoints and principles. Each is strongest when pursuing his own method, but the immanent is almost certainly more harmful... and yet more creative.

    Also, this can be simplified to an opposition between Ti and Fe, or perhaps even an opposition between internal functions and external ones.

    So there you go: Yeats' spirit guides and Tcaud's are in alignment. Who woulda thunk it!
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    What you're describing is the 8 functions on a 3 dimensional plane. A function is just a fixation through infinite. The hourglass and the diamond as you described them have between them 8 functions. That shape is actually an old shape I used to draw to describe the 8 functions.. later I found out I was just describing a fixed 3 dimensional perception.

    Basically you have 4 dots & you can draw 1 of 4 potential triangles. Each of those triangles can come in 1 of 2 arrangements; the lines of the triangles are beams and orient kinetically in 1 of 2 directions. The entire shape is in fluid motion- that defines 3 dimensional space without time (you being the leftout dot, it's like looking at 1 frame of reality) with 8 potential functions.
    Last edited by rat1; 10-18-2011 at 04:16 PM.

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    Not meant as a troll attempt, I just prefer some music that fits the thread as we read.


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    And here is something for you poli:

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    Well what you describe Silverchris, is not my conception of immanence. Immanence is a road that leads away from the mainstream... and never returns. It rejects the mainstream forever, and is very strongly tied with notions of utopia. Bin Laden was immanent. Al Qaeda is an organization that runs on immanence (the confrontational kind).

    Immanence is a complex idea. There are four key varieties, plus ethical dimensions. I suppose you'd say there are eight types of immanent altogether.

    Immanence is one of those things that many luminary intellectuals have suspected -- especially the poets -- but have felt it not safe to verbalize in code. If you assert before an immanent person that they are what they are, they won't take it well. Gadhafi... he is immanent. You can see how he responded to the uprisings: he refused to acknowledge that the people had turned against him, that they didn't want his ideology. Mubarak was more skeptical and grounded, and that's why he ruled less harshly and was easier to depose.

    Most of the great spiritual teachers of the world are immanent. Generally anyone who holds out for perfection, over the acceptable, is probably immanent. However, the real test of immanence is whether that obsession is something learned (from an immanent person) or the real McCoy. I think you're on the right track -- immanence is ultimately the result of philosophical divergence -- but the way you've phrased people could easily confuse EM or even IM types for immanents (or even conflict res types).

    If you think about it, a lot of great philosophical works (like say, Brave New World), are written as criticisms of immanent ideology. I'd love to see a game based on anarchy... it would really open Hitta and maybe even Ashton's eyes.

    Put it this way: immanence = disposition to tragedy.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 10-18-2011 at 10:51 PM.

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    It's too bad people haven't taken more interest in immanence... if so, fewer people would probably die young.

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    silke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    (or at least I think this idea is Tcaud's. Maybe not; I can't find it on wikisocion to be sure).

    Have you ever noticed that your concept of transcendent vs. immanent map rather neatly onto Yeats' concept of the double gyre? I'm too lazy/busy to link to a picture of the double gyre (if you google 'yeats double gyre' it comes right up), but the idea is that there's one thing that looks like a diamond---the maximum diameter is reached in the middle (which can be conceived of as the meeting place of the two halves of the diamond. The minimum diameter occurs at the extremes. Then there's another thing (superimposed on the first, but that's not important), which looks like an hourglass---the maximum diameter is reached at the extremes (when the two halves are farthest apart), and the minimum occurs at the center.
    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratsshadow View Post
    What you're describing is the 8 functions on a 3 dimensional plane. A function is just a fixation through infinite. The hourglass and the diamond as you described them have between them 8 functions. That shape is actually an old shape I used to draw to describe the 8 functions.. later I found out I was just describing a fixed 3 dimensional perception.
    huh? is this explained better somewhere else?

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    MY PANTS

    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Hiding Typhon's Avatar
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    You're quiet the dresser Reuben

  10. #10
    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    I know, my love.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

  11. #11
    Hiding Typhon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    my love.
    Not funny.

  12. #12
    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    but unlike that bitchful, heartless hemo, i mean it *pout*
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

  13. #13
    Hiding Typhon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    but unlike that bitchful, heartless hemo, i mean it *pout*
    Really? Is it my new avatar thats prompting you to call me that?

  14. #14
    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    I was addressing your nympho-fantasy, not you.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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