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Thread: Is there a correlation between the Big Five and Socionic type?

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    Default Is there a correlation between the Big Five and Socionic type?

    Pretty self-explanatory, are certain types more likely to have similar scores on the Big Five categories (Openness, Conscientiousness, Extroversion, Agreeableness, Neuroticism)? It seems that, since the Big Five is one of the more accepted personality descriptors, if we can associate type and the five dimensions, it may be beneficial for precision or... something else, no doubt.

    And apologies if there is already a thread related to this.
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    People tend to score differently on the Big 5 according to particular roles or areas of their life. Such that a person will score differently as a Mother, than she would as a McD's worker, than she would as a Sister, than she would when persuing her hobby as a Skier.
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    Generally I'd say there is, but it's probably stronger for some types. There is a correlation between Big 5 and MBTI, and there is a correlation between MBTI and Socionics type, however:

    - some russian articles show that the degree of perceived convergence between socionics and MBTI type is very strong for certain types and very weak for others.
    - iterative application of a correlation function might lead to near-zero results and / or completely different ones
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    there is relationship beetween all ptheory, even with Million Clinical Multiaxial Inventory.
    Some ptheory go deeper (socionic (for model/dichotomie/interaction/IM processing), enneagram (for problem emotion)) while other stay ridiculously on the surface (type ABCD)
    Last edited by noid; 10-14-2011 at 10:40 AM.
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    - correlates somewhat with neuroticism.
    I agree with the others, but why this?
    Last edited by FDG; 10-14-2011 at 03:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    I've read somewhere that extroversion correlates with intelligence, so having an extroverted function as dominant will propably correlate with it cos, you know, Extroverts tend to be extrovert.
    Not sure which version of extroversion you mean, but
    Quote Originally Posted by The Human Brain Book
    Extroverts have reduced activity, in response to stimuli, in the neural circuit that keeps the brain aroused. As a result, they need more environmental stimuli to keep them feeling energized.
    imo, and socionically related, Xe types spend more time/energy paying attention to TPE rather than relating/comparing/refining/'projecting an extension of' TPE. While an Xi is spending less time gathering Xe info, and more time doing what Xi elements do. Xi elements require more work, thus providing more brain stimulus from the inside, than an Xe element would.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClownsandEntropy View Post
    Pretty self-explanatory, are certain types more likely to have similar scores on the Big Five categories (Openness, Conscientiousness, Extroversion, Agreeableness, Neuroticism)? It seems that, since the Big Five is one of the more accepted personality descriptors, if we can associate type and the five dimensions, it may be beneficial for precision or... something else, no doubt.

    And apologies if there is already a thread related to this.
    My guess without thinking too deeply about it:

    IJs are prob higher in conscientiousness
    negativists are prob higher in neuroticism
    ethicals are prob higher in agreeableness
    extroverts in extroversion
    and I doubt openness has any meaningful correlation

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    IJs are prob higher in conscientiousness
    negativists are prob higher in neuroticism
    ethicals are prob higher in agreeableness
    extroverts in extroversion
    Intuitively, I'd say:
    -Ne ego correlates with openness whereas Se ego propably does it the other way around
    -Se ego propably propably are more extrovert (even if it would be merely a creative funtion) and less neurotic.
    -Fi might have a correlation with being neurotic although Se might bring it down a bit.
    -Ti might correlate with being neurotic.
    Last edited by Aquagraph; 10-14-2011 at 03:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    I agree with the others, but why this?
    I didn't post this! That looked like an answer to my post which just vanished (and just reposted)! Am I having a discussion with myself?

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    "Last edited by FDG"?

    Whatever it is, it seems like someone tried to ask me why does correlate with being neurotic.
    The wish to be precise and spesific is a one big way that seems to manifest itself.

    People with strong seem to have tendency to underestimate intelligence of others and get frustrated by it.
    Last edited by Aquagraph; 10-14-2011 at 03:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    I didn't post this! That looked like an answer to my post which just vanished (and just reposted)! Am I having a discussion with myself?
    Must be, and me too...cuz apparently i responded to a post of yours that doesn't exist.
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    My understanding of the Neuroticism scale is that it deals with our attention to potential consequences. People on the high end to to get paralysis by analysis, so freaked out by what could go wrong that they never act; whereas those on the extreme low end do what they please with no thought to the consequences. I wish I could remember the name of the book I read that in. I really liked it.

    Anyway, I'm an base who consistently scores high on the N scale and lower on the A scale. I think the latter happens because I can be very self-centered and opportunistic, as opposed to my being blatantly rude/mean to people.

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    My results:

    Factor I : Extraversion (AKA Surgency)

    This trait reflects preference for, and behavior in, social situations. People high in extraversion are energetic and seek out the company of others. Low scorers (introverts) tend to be more quiet and reserved. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (42) is relatively high.

    Factor II : Agreeableness (AKA Friendliness)

    This trait reflects how we tend to interact with others. People high in agreeableness tend to be trusting, friendly and cooperative. Low scorers tend to be more aggressive and less cooperative. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (15) is relatively low.

    Factor III : Conscientiousness (AKA Will or Dependability)

    This trait reflects how organized and persistent we are in pursuing our goals. High scorers are methodical, well organized and dutiful. Low scorers are less careful, less focussed and more likely to be distracted from tasks. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (42) is relatively high.

    Factor IV : Neuroticism

    This trait reflects the tendency to experience negative thoughts and feelings. High scorers are prone to insecurity and emotional distress. Low scorers tend to be more relaxed, less emotional and less prone to distress. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (8) is relatively low.

    Factor V : Openness (AKA Culture or Intellect)

    This trait reflects 'open-mindedness' and interest in culture. High scorers tend to be imaginative, creative, and to seek out cultural and educational experiences. Low scorers are more down-to-earth, less interested in art and more practical in nature. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (13) is relatively low.



    Click to take it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Low E and N, average everything else for me.

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    Low conscientiousness/will/dependability
    High neuroticism
    Avg everything else
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    Factor I : Extraversion (AKA Surgency)
    This trait reflects preference for, and behavior in, social situations. People high in extraversion are energetic and seek out the company of others. Low scorers (introverts) tend to be more quiet and reserved. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (24) is relatively low.

    Factor II : Agreeableness (AKA Friendliness)

    This trait reflects how we tend to interact with others. People high in agreeableness tend to be trusting, friendly and cooperative. Low scorers tend to be more aggressive and less cooperative. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (30) is relatively high.

    Factor III : Conscientiousness (AKA Will or Dependability)

    This trait reflects how organized and persistent we are in pursuing our goals. High scorers are methodical, well organized and dutiful. Low scorers are less careful, less focussed and more likely to be distracted from tasks. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (39) is relatively high.

    Factor IV : Neuroticism
    This trait reflects the tendency to experience negative thoughts and feelings. High scorers are prone to insecurity and emotional distress. Low scorers tend to be more relaxed, less emotional and less prone to distress. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (17) is relatively low.

    Factor V : Openness (AKA Culture or Intellect)

    This trait reflects 'open-mindedness' and interest in culture. High scorers tend to be imaginative, creative, and to seek out cultural and educational experiences. Low scorers are more down-to-earth, less interested in art and more practical in nature. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (34) is relatively high.
    My results fit the general correlation (NOT RULE) that I've seen suggested most:
    Extraversion for I/E
    Agreeableness for F/T
    Conscientiousness for J/P
    Openness for N/S

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    Low on everything except E (avg) and openness (high). I guess I'm really smart and don't worry or something, but I'm not a nice guy

    Anyway, we should use this topic to gather data . Then, after enough people respond, we can look at the data, and either declare inconclusiveness or see a possible correlation. Before then, it's fine to speculate, but post your scores!

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    Factor I : Extraversion (AKA Surgency)


    This trait reflects preference for, and behavior in, social situations. People high in extraversion are energetic and seek out the company of others. Low scorers (introverts) tend to be more quiet and reserved. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (10) is relatively low.
    Factor II : Agreeableness (AKA Friendliness)


    This trait reflects how we tend to interact with others. People high in agreeableness tend to be trusting, friendly and cooperative. Low scorers tend to be more aggressive and less cooperative. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (26) is about average.
    Factor III : Conscientiousness (AKA Will or Dependability)


    This trait reflects how organized and persistent we are in pursuing our goals. High scorers are methodical, well organized and dutiful. Low scorers are less careful, less focussed and more likely to be distracted from tasks. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (19) is relatively low.
    Factor IV : Neuroticism


    This trait reflects the tendency to experience negative thoughts and feelings. High scorers are prone to insecurity and emotional distress. Low scorers tend to be more relaxed, less emotional and less prone to distress. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (20) is about average.
    Factor V : Openness (AKA Culture or Intellect)


    This trait reflects 'open-mindedness' and interest in culture. High scorers tend to be imaginative, creative, and to seek out cultural and educational experiences. Low scorers are more down-to-earth, less interested in art and more practical in nature. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (27) is about average.

    Quote Originally Posted by April
    My results fit the general correlation (NOT RULE) that I've seen suggested most:
    Extraversion for I/E
    Agreeableness for F/T
    Conscientiousness for J/P
    Openness for N/S
    I am INSTFJP.
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    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

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    My work on Inert/Contact subtypes

    Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
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    Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites


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    Factor I : Extraversion (AKA Surgency)

    This trait reflects preference for, and behavior in, social situations. People high in extraversion are energetic and seek out the company of others. Low scorers (introverts) tend to be more quiet and reserved. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (32) is about average.

    Factor II : Agreeableness (AKA Friendliness)


    This trait reflects how we tend to interact with others. People high in agreeableness tend to be trusting, friendly and cooperative. Low scorers tend to be more aggressive and less cooperative. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (27) is about average.

    Factor III : Conscientiousness (AKA Will or Dependability)


    This trait reflects how organized and persistent we are in pursuing our goals. High scorers are methodical, well organized and dutiful. Low scorers are less careful, less focussed and more likely to be distracted from tasks. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (28) is relatively low.

    Factor IV : Neuroticism


    This trait reflects the tendency to experience negative thoughts and feelings. High scorers are prone to insecurity and emotional distress. Low scorers tend to be more relaxed, less emotional and less prone to distress. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (19) is about average.

    Factor V : Openness (AKA Culture or Intellect)


    This trait reflects 'open-mindedness' and interest in culture. High scorers tend to be imaginative, creative, and to seek out cultural and educational experiences. Low scorers are more down-to-earth, less interested in art and more practical in nature. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (32) is relatively high.

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    Factor I : Extraversion (AKA Surgency)
    This trait reflects preference for, and behavior in, social situations. People high in extraversion are energetic and seek out the company of others. Low scorers (introverts) tend to be more quiet and reserved. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (14) is relatively low.

    Factor II : Agreeableness (AKA Friendliness)

    This trait reflects how we tend to interact with others. People high in agreeableness tend to be trusting, friendly and cooperative. Low scorers tend to be more aggressive and less cooperative. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (25) is about average.

    Factor III : Conscientiousness (AKA Will or Dependability)

    This trait reflects how organized and persistent we are in pursuing our goals. High scorers are methodical, well organized and dutiful. Low scorers are less careful, less focussed and more likely to be distracted from tasks. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (24) is relatively low.

    Factor IV : Neuroticism
    This trait reflects the tendency to experience negative thoughts and feelings. High scorers are prone to insecurity and emotional distress. Low scorers tend to be more relaxed, less emotional and less prone to distress. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (24) is about average.

    Factor V : Openness (AKA Culture or Intellect)

    This trait reflects 'open-mindedness' and interest in culture. High scorers tend to be imaginative, creative, and to seek out cultural and educational experiences. Low scorers are more down-to-earth, less interested in art and more practical in nature. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (20) is relatively low.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Trevor the ISTp.
    Why ISTp > ISFp?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Extraversion: 30 (about average)
    Agreeableness: 19 (relatively low)
    Conscientiousness: 29 (relatively low)
    Neuroticism: 12 (relatively low)
    Openness: 31 (relatively high)

    So, running with April's suggested (2nd-hand) correlation, that makes me ENTp. FML.
    You're certainly underestimating your E level. Maybe try to answer right after a social event?

    Edit: it appears this test has a weird scale. So nevermind.

    My own results:

    Factor I : Extraversion (AKA Surgency)


    This trait reflects preference for, and behavior in, social situations. People high in extraversion are energetic and seek out the company of others. Low scorers (introverts) tend to be more quiet and reserved. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (43) is relatively high.
    Factor II : Agreeableness (AKA Friendliness)


    This trait reflects how we tend to interact with others. People high in agreeableness tend to be trusting, friendly and cooperative. Low scorers tend to be more aggressive and less cooperative. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (22) is relatively low.
    Factor III : Conscientiousness (AKA Will or Dependability)


    This trait reflects how organized and persistent we are in pursuing our goals. High scorers are methodical, well organized and dutiful. Low scorers are less careful, less focussed and more likely to be distracted from tasks. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (40) is relatively high.
    Factor IV : Neuroticism


    This trait reflects the tendency to experience negative thoughts and feelings. High scorers are prone to insecurity and emotional distress. Low scorers tend to be more relaxed, less emotional and less prone to distress. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (9) is relatively low.
    Factor V : Openness (AKA Culture or Intellect)


    This trait reflects 'open-mindedness' and interest in culture. High scorers tend to be imaginative, creative, and to seek out cultural and educational experiences. Low scorers are more down-to-earth, less interested in art and more practical in nature. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (31) is relatively high.



    Btw, I strongly disagree with the correlation between coscentiousness and J-P. My own levels of this parameter can vary a lot, dependingly on how much stuff I have to do.
    Last edited by FDG; 10-15-2011 at 12:14 AM.
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    Not for Socionics but for MBTI yes, such correlations have been made: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-B...cator#Big_Five

    N correlates to higher Openness.
    F correlates to higher Agreeableness.
    Being dynamic type correlates to higher Conscientiousness.
    Extraversion score is self-explanatory.
    Neuroticism doesn't correlate well with anything (has very small positive correlations with being static and introvert, IJ)

    Afaik enneagram type and wing have considerable sway over your score. There is a pdf file in this article http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/ar...lease_full.asp that goes over it. For example if you're some type that is expected to score high on, say, Agreeableness, but your enneagram type is one that correlates to low score on this parameter then your overall score is likely to be quite lowered. Overall I think enneagram has more of an effect than jungian functions.

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    I would expect there to be some correlation between all personality types, depending on what they measure. MBTI seems more superficial than either Socionics or Big Five, but there may be some correlation. Enneagram seems more precise about describing actual people but not as detailed in its descriptions, so I think I agree with siuntal that Big Five is more affected by Enneagram than MBTI, and I also feel that Socionics ought to have a higher correlation with Big Five than MBTI. How much Ennegram affects it, I'm not sure.

    Personally, I scored:
    Extroversion: 15 (Low)
    Agreeableness: 25 (Average)
    Conscientiousness: 32 (Average)
    Neuroticism: 29 (High)
    Openness: 28 (Average)

    Re: the test, what are these questions about art supposed to be testing for?
    Warm Regards,



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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    Being dynamic type correlates to higher Conscientiousness.
    How so? (the others make perfect sense btw)
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    Factor I : Extraversion (AKA Surgency)


    This trait reflects preference for, and behavior in, social situations. People high in extraversion are energetic and seek out the company of others. Low scorers (introverts) tend to be more quiet and reserved. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (34) is relatively high.

    Factor II : Agreeableness (AKA Friendliness)


    This trait reflects how we tend to interact with others. People high in agreeableness tend to be trusting, friendly and cooperative. Low scorers tend to be more aggressive and less cooperative. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (25) is about average.

    Factor III : Conscientiousness (AKA Will or Dependability)


    This trait reflects how organized and persistent we are in pursuing our goals. High scorers are methodical, well organized and dutiful. Low scorers are less careful, less focussed and more likely to be distracted from tasks. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (34) is about average.

    Factor IV : Neuroticism


    This trait reflects the tendency to experience negative thoughts and feelings. High scorers are prone to insecurity and emotional distress. Low scorers tend to be more relaxed, less emotional and less prone to distress. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (22) is about average.

    Factor V : Openness (AKA Culture or Intellect)


    This trait reflects 'open-mindedness' and interest in culture. High scorers tend to be imaginative, creative, and to seek out cultural and educational experiences. Low scorers are more down-to-earth, less interested in art and more practical in nature. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (26) is about average.

    -------------

    Yay, Im an Extrovert. News Flash. I actually find this test offensive. I had to answer highly unlikely to both the liberal and conservative question, not only because I do not vote, but because that is what is true if I did vote. Its a set of questions laced with bias. In fact, I find this entire test to be biased.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae View Post
    In fact, I find this entire test to be biased.
    I'm sure glad you didn't die after taking it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal
    Being dynamic type correlates to higher Conscientiousness.
    How so? (the others make perfect sense btw)
    The link implies that rationality is more shaped by conscientiousness, so I assume being a J in MBTI is correlated with higher conscientiousness.
    Warm Regards,



    Clowns & Entropy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    I'm sure glad you didn't die after taking it.
    I'm sure glad that you didnt die after reading my post?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    How so? (the others make perfect sense btw)
    MBTI's Judger/Perceiver corresponds to Socionics Dynamic/Static respectively. In that table J-P has negative correlation with Conscientiousness and being a P-type, which in Socionics terms is a static type, lowers this score.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownsandEntropy View Post
    The link implies that rationality is more shaped by conscientiousness, so I assume being a J in MBTI is correlated with higher conscientiousness.
    in MBTI the J/P letters =/= rationality/irrationality as MBTI assigns J/P using different criteria from Socionics

    what MBTI has instead is Judger/Perceiver dichotomy, which is not the same thing as rational/irrational - the way they assign J/P makes their Judger/Perceiver equivalent to dynamic/static i.e. Perceivers are statics, Judgers are dynamics

    MBTI has no dichotomy that would be equivalent to Socionics rational/irrational

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    MBTI's Judger/Perceiver corresponds to Socionics Dynamic/Static respectively. In that table J-P has negative correlation with Conscientiousness and being a P-type, which in Socionics terms is a static type, lowers this score.
    The theories don't correspond..they line up. MBTI doesn't measure Static/Dynamic, but the Pe Je crap causes MBTI's J/P to line up with Static/Dynamic.

    If Introverted Rationals(JiPe) were deemed MBTI P(JiPe), and Introverted Irrationals(PiJe) were deemed MBTI J(PiJe) instead, then they would correspond.
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    Sorry! Poor use of words, should have said that being a J is more shaped by conscientiousness; but no, I don't think there is an adequate enough relationship between MBTI and Socionics to say that certain Socionics types are more conscientious because MBTI is. Even if there is, the correlation between MBTI and Socionics is one of the less accepted theories, isn't it?
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    Factor I : Extraversion (AKA Surgency)

    This trait reflects preference for, and behavior in, social situations. People high in extraversion are energetic and seek out the company of others. Low scorers (introverts) tend to be more quiet and reserved. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (17) is relatively low.

    Factor II : Agreeableness (AKA Friendliness)

    This trait reflects how we tend to interact with others. People high in agreeableness tend to be trusting, friendly and cooperative. Low scorers tend to be more aggressive and less cooperative. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (25) is about average.

    Factor III : Conscientiousness (AKA Will or Dependability)

    This trait reflects how organized and persistent we are in pursuing our goals. High scorers are methodical, well organized and dutiful. Low scorers are less careful, less focussed and more likely to be distracted from tasks. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (25) is relatively low.

    Factor IV : Neuroticism

    This trait reflects the tendency to experience negative thoughts and feelings. High scorers are prone to insecurity and emotional distress. Low scorers tend to be more relaxed, less emotional and less prone to distress. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (32) is relatively high.

    Factor V : Openness (AKA Culture or Intellect)

    This trait reflects 'open-mindedness' and interest in culture. High scorers tend to be imaginative, creative, and to seek out cultural and educational experiences. Low scorers are more down-to-earth, less interested in art and more practical in nature. Compared to other people who have taken this test, your score on this dimension (34) is relatively high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    The theories don't correspond..they line up. MBTI doesn't measure Static/Dynamic, but the Pe Je crap causes MBTI's J/P to line up with Static/Dynamic.

    If Introverted Rationals(JiPe) were deemed MBTI P(JiPe), and Introverted Irrationals(PiJe) were deemed MBTI J(PiJe) instead, then they would correspond.
    It corresponds. If you go to MBTI forums and chat with people who score as as you'll find they have static logic (this is already taking into account that roughly 20-25% of them are mis-typed, just like on this board).

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownsandEntropy View Post
    Sorry! Poor use of words, should have said that being a J is more shaped by conscientiousness; but no, I don't think there is an adequate enough relationship between MBTI and Socionics to say that certain Socionics types are more conscientious because MBTI is. Even if there is, the correlation between MBTI and Socionics is one of the less accepted theories, isn't it?
    After spending 10 months reading MBTI forums and interacting with people there I am thoroughly convinced that Socionics and MBTI describe the same system of 16 types at their core, however, they use different terminology and different groupings.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    It corresponds. If you go to MBTI forums and chat with people who score as as you'll find they have static logic (this is already taking into account that roughly 20-25% of them are mis-typed, just like on this board).
    The theories don't correspond. They have nothing to do with each other. Introvert Rationals typing PiJe and Introvert Irrationals typing JiPe means jack squat because MBTI does not recognize the Static/Dynamic dichotomy.

    MBTT does not consider functions as static/dynamic, there is a whole different window typology and types are being viewed from than in Socionics.


    To paint a picture:
    There is a soda machine in the U.S. that takes U.S. dollars. A guy has paper money from another country that can fit in the US dollar slot. The guy slides it in and it's half-received by the machine, but then gets rejected because his paper money and the US Dollar are made of different substances even though they seem the same on the surface.

    The U.S. Dollar is Static/Dynamic, the foreign paper money is P(e)/J(e).


    It doesn't matter what types people get typed as. A person is always what they are. The fact that Socionics calls that person Static, or MBTI calls them JePi is irrelevant. If you know the structure of MBTI you would see that it cannot logically coexist with Socionics, especially in where Rationality/Irrationality is concerned. Either one of them is wrong & one is right, or they are both wrong.
    Last edited by EyeSeeCold; 10-20-2011 at 07:34 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae View Post
    I'm sure glad that you didnt die after reading my post?
    I'm immortal, accidents didn't kill me, nothing will. That's called being dynamic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Either one of them is wrong & one is right, or they are both wrong.
    Specifically, right and wrong depends on the requirements/expectations of its use...which varies between individuals. Maybe it would help if you both first made that clear, instead of flexing your egos to what you prescribe to be right or wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    The theories don't correspond. They have nothing to do with each other. Introvert Rationals typing PiJe and Introvert Irrationals typing JiPe means jack squat because MBTI does not recognize the Static/Dynamic dichotomy.

    MBTT does not consider functions as static/dynamic, there is a whole different window typology and types are being viewed from than in Socionics.
    MBTI does recognize Dynamic/Static dichotomy. It simply goes under a different name there: Judger/Perceiver and MBTI's Perceivers will display static reasoning if you try to argue against them on MBTI forums. It matters little that MBTI uses different terminology to describe this - it only matters that it the same type of reasoning that Socionics static types display.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    To paint a picture:
    There is a soda machine in the U.S. that takes U.S. dollars. A guy has paper money from another country that can fit in the US dollar slot. The guy slides it in and it's half-received by the machine, but then gets rejected because his paper money and the US Dollar are made of different substances even though they seem the same on the surface.

    The U.S. Dollar is Static/Dynamic, the foreign paper money is P(e)/J(e).
    Or the guy could simply realize that this bill is part of the concept called money, and that this concept works the same in US as it does in his home county. Then he can go to the nearest currency exchange booth and exchange his foreign bill for a dollar bill and then go and get his soda.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    ... because his paper money and the US Dollar are made of different substances even though they seem the same on the surface.
    What you're describing is a very good example of Se-PoLR thinking. If you valued Ni-Se, you would see that as long as the money concept holds true in both countries, the difference in the "substance" of the bills does not matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    It doesn't matter what types people get typed as. A person is always what they are. The fact that Socionics calls that person Static, or MBTI calls them JePi is irrelevant.
    What Socionics calls Static is JiPe in MBTI, not JePi.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    If you know the structure of MBTI you would see that it cannot logically coexist with Socionics, especially in where Rationality/Irrationality is concerned. Either one of them is wrong & one is right, or they are both wrong.
    Yes they can coexist as they are attempting to describe the same 16 types. No idea why you're bringing up rationality/irrationality again as I have already explained that this division does not formally exist in MBTI.

    By the way, remember how you asked Galen to provide examples of Alpha NTs claiming two systems are irreconcilable and one should be discarded when they find that a few variables are off? http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ton#post793431 - what you have said in your reply is a good example of this.

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