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Thread: Why Ne?

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    Default Why Ne?

    Gamma or Delta, most of the people who have voiced an opinion on my type consider me Fi-ego. In this topic, I'm going to talk about why I am Ne > Se. You're free to disagree with it, and to present a rational argument against it if you would like.

    One of my bigger flaws is a lack of focus on reality; this has become so much clearer this year, as I have been going through therapy and learning things about myself. I tend to imagine situations playing out, usually worst-case scenarios. These never happen, and I just end up wasting mental and emotional energy. I also tend to have a certain idea of how things should work and how people should act, and I get very bent out of shape when these standards are not conformed to. I am having to learn that it is alright to have standards but unrealistic to expect everyone to conform to them.

    Finally, I have had to change my perspective on... many things, really, but especially in terms of my own personal power and capability. I beat my head against a wall with my parents, mostly to no avail, so I internalized the idea that I could not change things, could not effect people. Problems would not change, and there was no point in confronting an issue. I became an adult, and the reality changed; but I was still that depressed person who chose not to care because I was tired of being disappointed. I still fear trying, because I don't want to fail again and be discouraged; but I now have the power to change my situation even if those around me persist in their irritating, stifling behaviors.

    In general, I am learning that reality sucks, but I will never change my situation until I am willing to live in it and roll with it. There is something comforting in knowing that 'this' is reality. It helps me to see what I cannot change and therefore should not stress over, and what I can (usually my perspective and/or my place within the situation). I have gone from wanting someone who will always protect me from the world to knowing I need someone who reminds me that I am strong and capable but that they'll be backing me the whole way and will ultimately step in if I truly cannot handle the situation.

    This went in a different direction than planned. Such go these kinds of posts. Questions and comments welcome.
    Last edited by Cuddly McFluffles; 11-13-2011 at 09:54 PM. Reason: Made paragraphs

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    EVRYBODY WANTS TO GO TO GAMMA QUADRA

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    Ne types tend to have a better grasp of reality than Se types cause they aren't limited by stratified conceptuality (i.e. "stereotypes"). the downside is mostly in reaction speed and decisiveness. the end result of cognition is pretty much consistently superior.

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    If you're uncertain about Se PoLR, try Se Role.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    If you're uncertain about Se PoLR, try Se Role.
    Sneaky.

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    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    A lot of what you said sounds E6—imagining worst-case scenarios and what not. ESI E6s do it too, get fatalistic, etc.
    Yeah, E6 here. What I wanted to point out in particular was the tendency to get lost in "what if's" and "should be's", and the need to be jerked back to reality from time to time.

    Quote Originally Posted by InkStrider View Post
    Sneaky.
    Yeah, he keeps trying.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    So how do you suggest to someone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    So how do you suggest to someone?
    How do I display around others? I'm very much the "hey, that reminds me of _______" sort. I'll pull out movie quotes, post pictures or comics, etc, if they seem relevant to the situation at hand. I occasionally enjoy impromptu word games like that. Also, Apples to Apples is awesome. ^.^ I can offer alternative points of view ("maybe he felt this way, and that's why _____") in a given situation, provided I'm not too emotionally involved. I also tend to think that this friend and that might really get along due to common interests, but I don't usually act on it. Maybe I should.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    How do I display around others? I'm very much the "hey, that reminds me of _______" sort. I'll pull out movie quotes, post pictures or comics, etc, if they seem relevant to the situation at hand. I occasionally enjoy impromptu word games like that. Also, Apples to Apples is awesome. ^.^ I can offer alternative points of view ("maybe he felt this way, and that's why _____") in a given situation, provided I'm not too emotionally involved. I also tend to think that this friend and that might really get along due to common interests, but I don't usually act on it. Maybe I should.
    No, how do you suggest it to others?

    "This reminds me of X," is analogies and you would be correct in saying that it's Ne, but not Ne creative...

    How do you activate another person's ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    No, how do you suggest it to others?
    Please explain.
    "This reminds me of X," is analogies and you would be correct in saying that it's Ne, but not Ne suggestive.
    What, as in the function (DS)? Why would that be relevant?Edit: I see you corrected it. I doubt being IEE, but it's not impossible.Double edit: Augh, you keep changing stuff. I don't focus on "activating others' ". I'm just me, and hopefully they enjoy that.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    Please explain.What, as in the function (DS)? Why would that be relevant?Edit: I see you corrected it. I doubt being IEE, but it's not impossible.
    How do you activate another person's Ne? That's what I meant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    How do you activate another person's Ne? That's what I meant.
    My twice-edited post addresses this.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    My twice-edited post addresses this.
    LOL that was a good one. But being you, what is one thing that you would like to see someone do more of? Something that you might suggest to them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    LOL that was a good one. But being you, what is one thing that you would like to see someone do more of? Something that you might suggest to them?
    *shrugs* To think and act according to the way I think is right.

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    Ah so you want to be considered the most visible role when others offer you ideas or insight in situations; as in you want to be the one who decides for yourself what will work for you?

    Do you view your life as an obstacle, full of challenges that you overcome?

    Do you relate to this video?

    http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/sa..._daughter.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Ah so you want to be considered the most visible role when others offer you ideas or insight in situations; as in you want to be the one who decides for yourself what will work for you?
    Where in what I just wrote did you read any of that?
    Do you view your life as an obstacle, full of challenges that you overcome?
    I don't know what I view life as right now. I've been busy thinking about other things.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

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    I'm not going to push my agenda at the expense of your situation and your health. I feel really bad about what you're going through now and I hope everything works out well. I don't want to stress you out Ryene. Try to take it easy, honey and do pleasant things, get a massage and relax.

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    InkStrider's Avatar
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    Ryene, forget it. She just wants you to give her an "EII" answer according to her book, before she'll let you pass off as EII. It's doubtful that she'll even be able to recognize one when she meets one on the streets. She isn't the authority on EIIs (however much she acts like one) and you nor any EII for that matter, do not need her stamp of approval in order to be one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I'm not going to push my agenda at the expense of your situation and your health. I feel really bad about what you're going through now and I hope everything works out well. I don't want to stress you out Ryene. Try to take it easy, honey and do pleasant things, get a massage and relax.
    Your sympathy is noted. You didn't answer my question, though. In fact, you appear to have completely evaded it.
    Quote Originally Posted by InkStrider View Post
    Ryene, forget it. She just wants you to give her an "EII" answer according to her book, before she'll let you pass off as EII. It's doubtful that she'll even be able to recognize one when she meets one on the streets. She isn't the authority on EIIs (however much she acts like one) and you nor any EII for that matter, do not need her stamp of approval in order to be one.
    I'll continue to call myself EII whether she does or not, so I don't really need her permission to be one. I just think she considers me to not be one for rather stupid reasons. Regardless, you're right in that her agreement is not essential.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    ESI E6s frequently do the same, getting lost in "what-ifs" and "should-bes," to the point that they need to be reeled back in, and reminded of how things actually are. So, the fact that you do this wouldn't necessarily rule out ESI in your case¡ªthough FTR, I still think EII makes the most sense for you.BTW guys, you ought to put Maritsa on ignore for your own good (and hers). I also recommend adding this to your Adblock filters list for good measure:
    www.the16types.info##[class="postbitignored postbitim"]
    This makes the ignoree vanish entirely from thread view, so you aren't tempted to sneak a peak by clicking View Post.
    I think it's better, too. Actually, I think I might live with an ESI, but that's a subject for another thread. And thanks for the tip. I may have to consider it.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

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    Well Ryene, you're definitely Ne. Your kind of humour is very refreshing, exploring multiple perspectives on a single subject. Also, it seems that language wise, you seem to be very particular and yet personal in the way you convey things; it is delta NF coming into play. Gamma SF are less about catering to the audience's perspective, or refinement in anyway, or at least that is how I feel it. They seem to be more out there, in your face, whatever.

    You basically described an assertion problem, where the lack of Se prevents you from making your Fi ideals come true, but through a different perspective and take on life (Ne), you have empowered yourself to believe that you can change things, and taken steps to actually change things. This is using Ne to help you with attaining Fi, to put it very simply. I also suppose that you would require Te (to get things done) and Si (to put things step by step; the process instead of the snapshots of an ideal place, or dream) so that you can reach your goals.

    Well I don't really know you, Ryene, but this is what I got from the little I have. Hope it helps you in any way at all.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    Yeah, he keeps trying.
    Those who keep trying eventually succeed.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InkStrider View Post
    Ryene, forget it. She just wants you to give her an "EII" answer according to her book, before she'll let you pass off as EII. It's doubtful that she'll even be able to recognize one when she meets one on the streets. She isn't the authority on EIIs (however much she acts like one) and you nor any EII for that matter, do not need her stamp of approval in order to be one.
    Not true.

    Also, Ryene, which question do you want me to answer? I may have missed it.

    I don't want you to give me any answers and NO I'm not testing you in any way. I don't have to type everyone and yes I am much more concerned for your well being than typing you. There are many people in the world that I can type and I don't need to aggravate you especially if you don't feel well and you need a more positive environment as you get better, God knows I've been in your shoes and I've needed the same and I know how it feels to have that support from others.
    Quote Originally Posted by InkStrider View Post
    Ryene, forget it. She just wants you to give her an "EII" answer according to her book, before she'll let you pass off as EII. It's doubtful that she'll even be able to recognize one when she meets one on the streets. She isn't the authority on EIIs (however much she acts like one) and you nor any EII for that matter, do not need her stamp of approval in order to be one.
    You're angry because I got upset. I react emotionally sometimes even overlooking logic/objectivity in the case and I accepted your apology, but I need to let my emotions subside before I can communicate with you otherwise I just feel like certain emotions haven't resolved themselves. You have a hard time trusting something/someone is good because you expect things to be bad...negativist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis
    I'll continue to call myself EII whether she does or not, so I don't really need her permission to be one. I just think she considers me to not be one for rather stupid reasons. Regardless, you're right in that her agreement is not essential.
    Yeah, wasn't implying that you are. It's just an error I don't hope for anyone to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Not true.

    I don't want you to give me any answers and NO I'm not testing you in any way. I don't have to type everyone and yes I am much more concerned for your well being than typing you. There are many people in the world that I can type and I don't need to aggravate you especially if you don't feel well and you need a more positive environment as you get better, God knows I've been in your shoes and I've needed the same and I know how it feels to have that support from others.
    It is true. You cover lies upon lies. You don't realize your own deceit. When it all comes crumbling down, it's not going to be fun. Don't say I didn't alert you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33
    You're angry because I got upset. I react emotionally sometimes even overlooking logic/objectivity in the case and I accepted your apology, but I need to let my emotions subside before I can communicate with you otherwise I just feel like certain emotions haven't resolved themselves. You have a hard time trusting something/someone is good because you expect things to be bad...negativist
    I am unhappy over it, but not in the way you think. I'm not angry with you that you got upset, that just throws people into unhealthy games. One which you might be caught up in yet not realize. You ceaselessly analyze and assign socionics reasons over my every word and behaviour. Healthy EIIs don't do that. Don't you know how to treat people as people? Are you interacting with me in reality or with an imaginary me in your head, which you can predict and then freak out when I don't act according to it?

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InkStrider View Post

    It is true. You cover lies upon lies. You don't realize your own deceit. When it all comes crumbling down, it's not going to be fun. Don't say I didn't alert you.



    I am unhappy over it, but not in the way you think. I'm not angry with you that you got upset, that just throws people into unhealthy games. One which you might be caught up in yet not realize. You ceaselessly analyze and assign socionics reasons over my every word and behaviour. Healthy EIIs don't do that. Don't you know how to treat people as people? Are you interacting with me in reality or with an imaginary me in your head, which you can predict and then freak out when I don't act according to it?
    Think however you want; I will continue to do what I need to do. As for treating me, be who you are.

    I believe that you may not have the capacity to understand the depth of love I have for humanity and individuality of the human spirit. You haven't even tried. You just think I conjure up fantasies, maybe you do.

    But, it's nice that you noticed that I'm analyzing things.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-12-2011 at 06:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Think however you want; I will continue to do what I need to do. As for treating me, be who you are.

    I believe that you may not have the capacity to understand the depth of love I have for humanity and individuality of the human spirit. You haven't even tried. You just think I conjure up fantasies, maybe you do.
    Let me ask you: What does it mean to have deep love for humanity and individuality of the human spirit? You only see one approach: self-sacrifice to the needs of others. Reading Ayn Rand would do you good. On the virtue of selfishness.

    You think that you are doing right in your opposition of me. That in opposing the people who oppose you, you are standing up for all that is good and right, what you call a defense for the love of humanity and the individuality of the human spirit. But are you really? Are you really standing up for what you *think* you are standing up for? How much positive effect had you made onto the world with your unceasing effort to give love to humanity? Do most of humanity even NEED your sympathy and care in the first place? For all you know, the very people whom you feel such happiness in "assisting" are merely being nice by nodding their heads on the surface, yet deep inside secretly wishing you to FUCK OUT of their lives, because you don't understand them IN THE LEAST? You think sympathy and care is what people need, but that is pure BOLLOCKS. This is why you received such opposition towards your "loving care and kindness". People curse you on the inside. The nicer ones try to do it gently, but do expect to receive ugly words from those less inclined to such niceties. You instead opt to cry and sulk that they have hurt your feelings, calling them insensitive, not nice, and without compassion, when it is YOU who LACK DEPTH.

    You speak of empathy, yet you hardly understand what it means to be truly human. You don't truly understand the really intense emotions that goes on inside of people, the contradictory forces that they face within. You're not actually "feeling" their emotions and experiences, you don't understand the true nature of the problems that they actually face. And you won't unless you accept that there is a darker side in all of us, and that one cannot be fully good nor fully evil, and start to recognize the evil and selfishness in yourself. You have barely even started on that journey. You dare not, and as long as you do not, you will never understand nor feel, what you claim to want to understand and feel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33
    But, it's nice that you noticed that I'm analyzing things.
    It wasn't nice of me. It irritated me, which was why I pointed it out. There is a proper time and place for everything. Your emphasis is misplaced. If you had only spent half the effort and time that you had on socionics into another field, you would have been an expert in that field already, possibly achieving some eminence and contributing to some actual knowledge. Instead of this.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InkStrider View Post
    Let me ask you: What does it mean to have deep love for humanity and individuality of the human spirit? You only see one approach: self-sacrifice to the needs of others. Reading Ayn Rand would do you good. On the virtue of selfishness.

    There's no virtue in selfishness. Virtue is predicated on how you treat others; she uses people as tools to get what she wants and she promotes this; all men are islands in her world; one person being good means there's nothing to be good towards if you don't have other human beings. I love people and being around them even if that drains my energy and I value genuine human interaction; not clouded by negative ulterior motives; an example of this in Ayn Rand's world is stating something in a covert way, "help me, I'll be your friend, only if you help me make money." Being with someone I love and taking part in an activity, sharing my love, my thoughts, my answers to things and getting feedback, social interaction. She promotes a world where authentic human interaction does not exist, where bonds are not made in loving and caring unity, and getting what you want out of them like tools and exploiting others to get what they want; LSE like results, not exploiting others to get what they want.

    In my world of genuine human interaction is me paying attention to the cares and concerns of others and if I can help, letting them know I can and following through with it, if I can't I simply say so. And plus, I'm exceptionally honest so very little is left guessing about me, just my emotions when they get hurt and boil down to quietness where I try to conceal my feelings, but that's more of a reaction than an actual intent to hide things.

    You think lacking compassion is a lack of depth, I think it's a lack of character, a lack of virtue and humanity. Maybe you and I have differing viewpoints anyway. Maybe you don't need a humanist.

    Furthermore, your lack of acceptance of me for who I am is really hurting my feelings. I have a damned profession where I've spent years acquiring knowledge in it.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-12-2011 at 04:09 PM.

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    escaping anndelise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    There's no virtue in selfishness.
    And yet, doing things for others helps you, personally feel good.
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post817907

    Whether you do things for others as a way of helping yourself feel good about yourself,
    As a way of "proving" your superiority over others,
    As a way of "looking good" to others, etc
    It's still selfishness.
    So I guess you think that there is no virtue in your attempts to help others?

    Why do you type people maritsa? It's certainly not to help them...it's to help yourself...it's a selfish act.

    Why do you feel a need to inform everyone of how unselfish you are?
    Why do you feel a need to regularly inform everyone of how helpful you are?
    Could it be because maybe your actions don't speak enough for themselves, so you feel a need to give it voice..else other people may not realize this about you?
    Why is it so important to you that other people know this about you?
    It's obviously important to you that others know, else you wouldn't feel compelled to bring it up every chance you get.
    So, surely we can conclude that each time you bring it up, that you're thinking of your own needs/wants at tht moment. And maritsa...according to you, there is no virtue in that.

    ------

    Being with someone I love and taking part in an activity, sharing my love, my thoughts, my answers to things and getting feedback, social interaction.
    All of those are a form of selfishness on your part.
    YOU want to be with someone you love
    YOU want to take part in an activity
    YOU want to share your love
    YOU want to share your thoughts
    YOU want to answer things
    YOU want feedback
    YOU want social interaction

    Looking at the above, you're quite sefish, maritsa.
    And according to you, there is no virtue in your wants.

    --------

    And finally, as to your claim that there is no virtue in selfishness,
    Believe it or not, when most people finally acknowledge that they get something out of their so-called 'altruistic' actions, and what it its that they get from it, then they are usually more helpful to others. And you consider that to have no virtue?
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    Quote Originally Posted by maritsa
    She promotes a world where authentic human interaction does not exist, where bonds are not made in loving and caring unity, and getting what you want out of them like tools and exploiting others to get what they want
    And yet, your lifepowercoaching business charges people for money in exchange for your 'help'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    There's no virtue in selfishness. Virtue is predicated on how you treat others; she uses people as tools to get what she wants and she promotes this; all men are islands in her world; one person being good means there's nothing to be good towards if you don't have other human beings. I love people and being around them even if that drains my energy and I value genuine human interaction; not clouded by negative ulterior motives; an example of this in Ayn Rand's world is stating something in a covert way, "help me, I'll be your friend, only if you help me make money." Being with someone I love and taking part in an activity, sharing my love, my thoughts, my answers to things and getting feedback, social interaction. She promotes a world where authentic human interaction does not exist, where bonds are not made in loving and caring unity, and getting what you want out of them like tools and exploiting others to get what they want; LSE like results, not exploiting others to get what they want.

    In my world of genuine human interaction is me paying attention to the cares and concerns of others and if I can help, letting them know I can and following through with it, if I can't I simply say so. And plus, I'm exceptionally honest so very little is left guessing about me, just my emotions when they get hurt and boil down to quietness where I try to conceal my feelings, but that's more of a reaction than an actual intent to hide things.
    You lack understanding of her philosophy. But I won't debate it here. I don't love people as much as you do, unfortunately. But well, to be fair some people do welcome the brand of compassion and care you have to give. Just saying that there is a need to be able to discern who needs it and who doesn't, but it to me feels like a certain shallowness that I would have usually associated with being Alpha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33
    Furthermore, your lack of acceptance of me for who I am is really hurting my feelings. I have a damned profession where I've spent years acquiring knowledge in it.
    I really don't care for such petty feelings. Okay good for you. I'm not at all implying that you do not have a profession and that you aren't good at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33
    You think lacking compassion is a lack of depth, I think it's a lack of character, a lack of virtue and humanity. Maybe you and I have differing viewpoints anyway. Maybe you don't need a humanist.
    Never have I said that a lack of compassion equates to a lack of depth. Your definition of compassion differs from mine. Compassion isn't to me some fluffy thing where you comfort people over puny, hurt feelings. Whoever does that to me will only earn from me a good kick.

    But, you're right. I really don't need a humanist, definitely not your brand of humanist anyway. Since you give no qualms about telling people what you type them, I'd tell you what I think of you too.


    Maritsa33 ESE CONFIRMED

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    Quote Originally Posted by InkStrider View Post
    You lack understanding of her philosophy.
    Haha!

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    Actually, Maritsa, I agree with what you were trying to do to distinguish between Se creative and Ne creative. I, too, have been puzzled by a difficulty in trying to see Ne in the things that Ryene writes, and not really being able to see it, and not quite knowing why or what to look for.

    I looked at that video you posted, the lady up on the stage talking about what she wants for her daughter, and if I understand correctly, that's an example of an ESI, and a really good one at that. It shows the spirit of Se, in an admirable way.

    I'm not really sure how to go about distinguishing between a Se and Ne creative, but in my opinion, you were doing okay with the questions you were asking.

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    This thread: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...830#post770830

    I often take note of who talks with whom, who gets along with whom. In that thread, Ryene and Kassie mentioned that they do see similarities in each other, and some of us have been suspecting an ESI type for kassie in her recent type threads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nico1e View Post
    Actually, Maritsa, I agree with what you were trying to do to distinguish between Se creative and Ne creative. I, too, have been puzzled by a difficulty in trying to see Ne in the things that Ryene writes, and not really being able to see it, and not quite knowing why or what to look for.

    I looked at that video you posted, the lady up on the stage talking about what she wants for her daughter, and if I understand correctly, that's an example of an ESI, and a really good one at that. It shows the spirit of Se, in an admirable way.

    I'm not really sure how to go about distinguishing between a Se and Ne creative, but in my opinion, you were doing okay with the questions you were asking.
    She thinks I'm Se base, not Se creative.

    Thanks for the feedback. What do you consider to be Ne, that you cannot find it in my writing? Also, do you see Se in there? How so?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nico1e
    Actually, Maritsa, I agree with what you were trying to do to distinguish between Se creative and Ne creative. I, too, have been puzzled by a difficulty in trying to see Ne in the things that Ryene writes, and not really being able to see it, and not quite knowing why or what to look for.
    Define how you view Ne.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nico1e View Post
    I often take note of who talks with whom, who gets along with whom.
    Note that it is only when the exchange occurs between healthy individuals that you can use intertype relations to gauge their socionics type. Non-socionics factors play a stronger role in determining compatibility than we give it credit for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nico1e
    In that thread, Ryene and Kassie mentioned that they do see similarities in each other, and some of us have been suspecting an ESI type for kassie in her recent type threads.
    Oh God, I see some similarity with Ashton. Ashton! Come join me in Deltahh!!

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    @Maritsa33: I'm not under huge amounts of stress right now. When I said I'd had other things on my mind, I meant I haven't given a ton of thought to reformulating a worldview since coming out of the previous one (that life just threw a bunch of crap at me). The question I asked, you can find further up. I'm on my phone, or I'd copy and paste it.@InkStrider: You are capable of snark. Seriously, though, Kassie and I have noted similarities before, so it doesn't bother me horribly if someone brings that up. We both fit the "unconventional EII" label, even if the stereotype is kinda stupid to begin with. *cough*TohruHonda*cough* Maybe we just yell about it the loudest?
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InkStrider View Post
    You lack understanding of her philosophy. But I won't debate it here. I don't love people as much as you do, unfortunately. But well, to be fair some people do welcome the brand of compassion and care you have to give. Just saying that there is a need to be able to discern who needs it and who doesn't, but it to me feels like a certain shallowness that I would have usually associated with being Alpha.


    I really don't care for such petty feelings. Okay good for you. I'm not at all implying that you do not have a profession and that you aren't good at it.


    Never have I said that a lack of compassion equates to a lack of depth. Your definition of compassion differs from mine. Compassion isn't to me some fluffy thing where you comfort people over puny, hurt feelings. Whoever does that to me will only earn from me a good kick.

    But, you're right. I really don't need a humanist, definitely not your brand of humanist anyway. Since you give no qualms about telling people what you type them, I'd tell you what I think of you too.


    Maritsa33 ESE CONFIRMED
    I guess you'd like to not speak with me; you're welcome to not do so because as it is, you won't either try to understand me or you are blocking me out because I don't meet your idealization; your very ideal of a perfect EII is one you've conjured up in your fantasy, an Ayn Rand loving EIIs; you live in a black box where everything that exists outside of what you will not except is excluded. That seems to include me. Ayn Rand is the person on the boat saying "I'm on the boat, pull up the life lines" she doesn't see anyone else privileged to be saved on that boat with her; got it? I don't despise her or single her out, I'm sure many successes have arisen from her philosophy, but I don't like that people take her as a cult leader and follow and preach about her. She's just another idea among many that have waived change and will continue to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    And yet, doing things for others helps you, personally feel good.
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post817907

    Whether you do things for others as a way of helping yourself feel good about yourself,
    As a way of "proving" your superiority over others,
    As a way of "looking good" to others, etc
    It's still selfishness.
    So I guess you think that there is no virtue in your attempts to help others?

    Why do you type people maritsa? It's certainly not to help them...it's to help yourself...it's a selfish act.

    Why do you feel a need to inform everyone of how unselfish you are?
    Why do you feel a need to regularly inform everyone of how helpful you are?
    Could it be because maybe your actions don't speak enough for themselves, so you feel a need to give it voice..else other people may not realize this about you?
    Why is it so important to you that other people know this about you?
    It's obviously important to you that others know, else you wouldn't feel compelled to bring it up every chance you get.
    So, surely we can conclude that each time you bring it up, that you're thinking of your own needs/wants at tht moment. And maritsa...according to you, there is no virtue in that.

    ------


    All of those are a form of selfishness on your part.
    YOU want to be with someone you love
    YOU want to take part in an activity
    YOU want to share your love
    YOU want to share your thoughts
    YOU want to answer things
    YOU want feedback
    YOU want social interaction

    Looking at the above, you're quite sefish, maritsa.
    And according to you, there is no virtue in your wants.

    --------

    And finally, as to your claim that there is no virtue in selfishness,
    Believe it or not, when most people finally acknowledge that they get something out of their so-called 'altruistic' actions, and what it its that they get from it, then they are usually more helpful to others. And you consider that to have no virtue?
    I do things that I don't like and I think that's a true show of someone who does things to not make themselves feel good then you're doing it for the cause and not for the glory.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-13-2011 at 09:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I do things that I don't like and I think that's a true show of someone who does things to not make themselves feel good then you're doing it for the cause and not for the glory.
    A) what do you do that you don't like?
    B) why are you doing it? What do you hope will be the result of your doing of it?
    Please be specific.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    A) what do you do that you don't like?
    B) why are you doing it? What do you hope will be the result of your doing of it?
    Please be specific.
    I don't like my volunteer work; I used to drag myself out of bed at 8am on Saturdays and go home at 5pm
    I did it because people needed it.

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    Ok, so people need something, you don't want to do it, but you drag yourself out of bed and work all day to do it.

    Who's putting a gun to your head making you do it? Noone?
    Then why are YOU doing it, rather than letting someone else do it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Ok, so people need something, you don't want to do it, but you drag yourself out of bed and work all day to do it.

    Who's putting a gun to your head making you do it? Noone?
    Then why are YOU doing it, rather than letting someone else do it?
    No one's putting a gun to my head. You do it because your community needs it. Period. It's another job, a contribution. Duty, honor. Whatever. It's the Gosh darn right thing to do.

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