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Thread: Would you mind helping?

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    Default Would you mind helping?

    Hi everyone,

    I had a quick problem that I would appreciate some advice on.

    I’m still interested in Socionics (I previously posted as a guest a while ago under the names “Tanzhe” and “Five”), and I was wondering whether you’d be able to help me find my type. When I posted as a guest, the general consensus of opinion was that I’m ISTj, but Expat thought that I might be ISFj; CuriousSoul has recently mentioned INTp as a possibility, and “a number of other types as well”, so my type is still open to debate.

    I don’t have an opinion on my type; and I’ve changed so much for the better since I was a guest.

    Would you mind helping me out on this?

    Kind regards,
    Five/Tanzhe

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Given your infos from the INTj description you wrote - I assume, describing yourself - I could very well see ISFj; what you though as suppressed Fe, IME, was most likely your suppression of impulses you felt after violations of your by some agent of the outside world.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I have just re-read your original type thread, the one where everybody thought you were ISTj.

    Reading your original answers, it does seem to me that you are more likely ISFj than ISTj.

    Let me ask you this.

    1) Do you find it easy (not in terms of being able to, in terms of finding it "normal") to go to social events where you have to put up a mask of sociability with people you don't really like, or is it something you dislike and find stressful? Does it bpther you at all?

    2) How is it with most of your friends -- friends are essentially people to have a nice time together and forget your troubles, or friends are people with whom you have a special bond even if you are oceans apart, come to you with their troubles, and sometimes just sit together doing nothing?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I have just re-read your original type thread, the one where everybody thought you were ISTj.
    Where is it? If you really want help, why don't you make it as easy as possible for others to help you? Links, summaries, new inputs etc., please.

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    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Thanks, Rocky.

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    Another thread is here:

    http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...t=2259&start=0

    I'm still inclined to ISFj.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    First of all - thank you for your help.


    what you though as suppressed Fe, IME, was most likely your suppression of impulses you felt after violations of your by some agent of the outside world.
    Interesting comment, FDG. However, since my understanding of Socionics and functions is, literally, a dot on the chalkboard, could you simplify it a little?


    1) Do you find it easy (not in terms of being able to, in terms of finding it "normal") to go to social events where you have to put up a mask of sociability with people you don't really like, or is it something you dislike and find stressful? Does it bother you at all?
    I just aim to be ‘me’. I try to be helpful, polite and kind to all people (which I do very well and pretty much instinctively), but if I’m around someone that really annoys me, I tend to kind of withdraw a bit, become a little quieter and less warm. I don’t think it’s a big difference outwardly; but I do feel the difference internally.

    I think the difference is that, with someone I like/know/trust, I am polite and tease/make jokes/laugh/relax etc. If it is with someone that I dislike/don't know/don't trust, I am polite and sociable but without the additional informality - I'm slightly less informal and warm.


    2) How is it with most of your friends -- friends are essentially people to have a nice time together and forget your troubles, or friends are people with whom you have a special bond even if you are oceans apart, come to you with their troubles, and sometimes just sit together doing nothing?
    My experience with friendships is limited - I haven’t had a ‘special bond’ with anybody (yet) because teenagers just don't form relationships like that.

    My current friends (or acquaintances) are nice people who I enjoy having for company and joking around with; I wouldn't turn to them for serious, mature advice. For that, I go to my dad.


    Hope that helps.

    Kindly,
    Five/Tanzhe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five

    My experience with friendships is limited - I haven’t had a ‘special bond’ with anybody (yet) because teenagers just don't form relationships like that.

    Eeek! You need NF friends!

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    Right -- let's try this:

    What is your style of conversation? Do you prefer dialogue as "sequential monologues", that is, you say something, you finish it, then the other person replies, you let them finish and so on? Or are you more into more interactive, question-asking, interruptive dialogue? Does it bother you if people interrupt you with questions while you're talking, or you prefer it and you do it yourself?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    What is your style of conversation? Do you prefer dialogue as "sequential monologues", that is, you say something, you finish it, then the other person replies, you let them finish and so on? Or are you more into more interactive, question-asking, interruptive dialogue? Does it bother you if people interrupt you with questions while you're talking, or you prefer it and you do it yourself?
    I prefer it to be sequential. It bothers me if people interrupt with questions if I’m about to say something that answers their questions; but I can sometimes interrupt others. I try not to do so because I realise that, if I let them talk completely, I would get more out of the conversation.

    I think that my sequential preference becomes apparent when I am arguing with someone who just crashes in to me, arguing with lots of emotion but with no logic and not actually listening to me. In those situations, I don't know what to do and I get frustrated at the other person's immaturity.


    What about the other types suggested apart from ISxj?


    Regards,
    Five/Tanzhe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    I prefer it to be sequential. It bothers me if people interrupt with questions if I’m about to say something that answers their questions; but I can sometimes interrupt others. I try not to do so because I realise that, if I let them talk completely, I would get more out of the conversation.

    I think that my sequential preference becomes apparent when I am arguing with someone who just crashes in to me, arguing with lots of emotion but with no logic and not actually listening to me. In those situations, I don't know what to do and I get frustrated at the other person's immaturity.
    At face value, it suggests that you are a Narrator, so ISTj (or INTp, for that matter) rather than ISFj.


    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    My experience with friendships is limited - I haven’t had a ‘special bond’ with anybody (yet) because teenagers just don't form relationships like that.
    You know, some teenagers do form them -- this is just what an ISTj would say. You are so sure of it because that's your system.

    And if you think that you'll be able to form a special bond when you get older, if you can't now, you're mistaken IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    I just aim to be ‘me’. I try to be helpful, polite and kind to all people (which I do very well and pretty much instinctively), but if I’m around someone that really annoys me, I tend to kind of withdraw a bit, become a little quieter and less warm. I don’t think it’s a big difference outwardly; but I do feel the difference internally.

    I think the difference is that, with someone I like/know/trust, I am polite and tease/make jokes/laugh/relax etc. If it is with someone that I dislike/don't know/don't trust, I am polite and sociable but without the additional informality - I'm slightly less informal and warm.

    - - -

    My current friends (or acquaintances) are nice people who I enjoy having for company and joking around with; I wouldn't turn to them for serious, mature advice. For that, I go to my dad.
    Again at face value, the above suggests preference of over , and signs of as role function -- in your Analyst self-description I also saw problems with rather than .

    So, both point toward ISTj rather than ISFj.

    I thought you might be ISFj because of your earlier focus on principles such as being loyal. But your self-description - if you really identify with it all - suggests again more confidence on than , and as role function.

    That would speak against INTp too. But honestly I never really thought of INTp for you.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    ISTJs often describe themselves as loyal, "giving, not taking", and the opposite of an ego-centric focus.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Hi everyone,

    You know, some teenagers do form them -- this is just what an ISTj would say. You are so sure of it because that's your system.
    In the future, whether you meant it this time or not, can you please not put me in a box like that? To be honest, it really is quite frustrating and annoying.

    Thanks in advance.



    ... Analyst self-description ...
    My Analyst self-description was me basically trying to find a reason for my depression and frustration with life. Now that I read it again, it does not describe me.

    Expat, what about INFj, INFp or even INTp? What other types could I possibly be?

    Could we even start from Narrator types (INTp, ENTj, ENFp, INFj, ESFj, ISFp, ESTp, ISTj) and go from there?

    CuriousSoul, what do you think? You mentioned other types – would you care to join in?

    Anybody else who has comments or thoughts - please post!


    Kindly,
    Five/Tanzhe

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    I'm just getting a weak INFj vibe. It's what you said about interactions. Being a bit less friendly towards people you don't like/trust. I was discussing a similar topic with an INFj and she said something very similar. (what you said and how you said it.) I haven't read the other type discussion, so I don't know everything.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five

    In the future, whether you meant it this time or not, can you please not put me in a box like that? To be honest, it really is quite frustrating and annoying.

    Thanks in advance.
    Well, you put yourself and all teenagers in a box - - I just said that this is what an ISTj would be likely to do, due to and Aristocratic tendencies, which suggests Beta. That is the case, whether or not you are indeed ISTj yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    Expat, what about INFj, INFp or even INTp? What other types could I possibly be?
    You, and everyone else, could "possibly" be any type.

    Even without the analyst description, I think you show more than inclinations, and all the previous descriptions and discussions had already pointed towards ISTj, INTj or ISFj. Based on all the evidence put together, I think ISTj is the most likely. It's impossible to be 100% sure, though, if that's what you're looking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    Could we even start from Narrator types (INTp, ENTj, ENFp, INFj, ESFj, ISFp, ESTp, ISTj) and go from there?
    Not everyone will be happy with this approach.

    Anyway, even without that Analyst description, I think the evidence points towards ISTj -- I'll see if anyone comes up with a better solution.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Thanks Expat and Kristiina!


    I think the evidence points towards ISTj
    OK - that's fine. I was just suggesting going back to Narrator types in case the lack of Analyst description threw a spanner in the works. Since it didn't, it's not an issue.

    Looking back at my posts, I apologise if I was in any way rude to you - I just hate having people try to read my mind based on a 'type'.

    I take it that Socionics functions are readily apparent despite what 'mood' your are in and however you try to influence your personality?

    And, just quickly, I am also idealistic, quite laid-back, open-minded, empathic, sensitve, spiritual, calm, and I am an Enneagram 1w9. Does that impact in any way on my possible type?

    Kind regards,
    Five/Tanzhe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    I take it that Socionics functions are readily apparent despite what 'mood' your are in and however you try to influence your personality?
    Not sure about "readily apparent". Someone who knows socionics well could conceivably fake being another type, especially online.

    It is often the case, however, that a person's type comes better across online from how the person reasons and reacts than from what s/he is actually trying to say.


    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    And, just quickly, I am also idealistic, quite laid-back, open-minded, empathic, sensitve, spiritual, calm, and I am an Enneagram 1w9. Does that impact in any way on my possible type?
    On 1w9 -- *shrugs* depending on whom you ask, it may suggest that you are likely IXTj, or ISXj, or XSTj, or XXTj, or merely that you are a rational type - - in principle it goes against INTp but I don't think even that is that clear.

    Still, there are quite a few people who know much more about the enneagram than I do, so (FDG, Dynamicism, Eidos, etc etc) perhaps they will disagree.

    As for your self-description now, it doesn't add much.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    On 1w9 -- *shrugs* depending on whom you ask, it may suggest that you are likely IXTj, or ISXj, or XSTj, or XXTj, or merely that you are a rational type - - in principle it goes against INTp but I don't think even that is that clear.
    I agree. If you really are a 1 with or without 9, that is an argument for ISTj. Perhaps you can find many J types among 1s, but if we, for example, compare an ISTj with an ISFj, and we have to put them in different Enneagram groups, then the natural home for an ISFj is the Enneagram type 6, and the natural home for an ISTj is the Enneagram type 1. It is possible to mistake an INTp for a 1, but if you compare the 1s with the 5s on a deeper level, you will realize that almost every INTp (personally I am inclined to skip the word "almost" here) is a 5.

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    H’OK - I’m ISTj.

    To all (but Expat especially): thank you very much for your help. I do appreciate it, especially as you are under no compulsion to help me. But I think my boxing-in comment could be seen as quite abrupt and blunt; I duly apologise if I have been rude with you.

    Thanks again!

    Kindly,
    Five/Tanzhe

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