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NEV0R
(came here for the cookies)
Better: I depart you with infinite wisdom of cookiedom.Originally Posted by poli
NEV0R
(came here for the cookies
DO YOU FEEL THE POWAH OF KNOWLEDGE? DO YOU FEEL IT?
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I'm going to spend a while reading up on reported serial killers to spot any potential INFjs.
Nah. My duals are prefect.
that was my real facial expression
I don't think so.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
.
I'll tell you if I ever find one. I seek to roll in their evilness.
Well of course, why not? Types are not connected to being evil or good. (Btw, those are pretty abstract terms anyway.) Just because they have a rather "angelic" image doesn't mean they can't do a bad thing.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
Morgan Freeman pulls off a pretty convincing rendition of INFj "evil" in several of his roles as an actor. don't know if that's indicative of anything.
Me
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
The only length an EII has at the capability of malice is of applying psychological distance, by in-warding their frustration, not speaking, shutting away from the individual from indigestion of the situation at hand. An EII, I assure you, has no capability of hurting others by physical force, by bullying others, by malicious words intended or otherwise. Unless, in my case, I'll be honest, when I'm testing someone's emotional feedback in typing them, but I'm a very warm person and I'll admit to doing this; I hope people know me well enough to know that it's just a test. And, since this method, which I have used in the past has greatly troubled me emotionally, I have resorted to not using it again. A lot of misunderstandings arise from that and it's just not worth the possibility/or the pending emotional trouble that it might give rise to.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Yes, evil EIIs do exist. They exercise their evilness via Fi relational threats to manipulate Te dominants with. Personal experience.
I think that people should also consider that the definition of evil has changed with time and culture, too. What may have been an act to survival once may be seen as evil today...that sort of thing.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-22-2011 at 07:31 PM.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Alright, here you go.
1. Can an EII take someone's life for any reason?
Can an EII murder people due to/out of:
- Patriotism.
- Revenge.
- War.
- Religious beliefs.
- Self-Defense.
?
2. Can an EII torture someone under any circumstance?
3. Can an EII rape someone?
4. Can an EII have sex with a child?
5. Can an EII steal?
6. Can an EII cause emotional and/or psychological harm to another person on purpose?
- Can an EII forcefully coerce someone into doing any of the above?
- Can an EII manipulate or convince someone to do any of the above for their own personal gain?
Go.
Yes. EII's tend to have stright, usually morally understandable set of circumstances where even a conscious kill would be a way to go. I believe anyone is capable of killing when put under the stress of losing way of life. With-dominant, reaction to this kind of threat might be especially unsettling. Yes, everyone feels very threatened, thus more ready to kill, when their way of life would be threatened by someone morally questionable figure, but as if EII would give more value for values themselves and thus seeing there's more at stake. The murderer lives in many citizens when the police finally capture the serial rapist murderer as everyone eagerly waits for the sentence. The tendency to kill increases as something is defined as a monter, dehumanisation is the key word. I can imagine proper overprotective mother killing a local confirmed child molester impulsively. I also intuitively imagine that
For EII murderer, weapon of choice would be poison rather than an axe.
Oh and below I just took examples out of politics and I know all of you won't agree with my perhaps provocative views, but you get the jist of what I mean in those examples. Just saying if you want to talk politics, let's do it somewhere else.
I have trouble imagining EII going to the war without being a patriot and knowing his(/her, most likely "he's") when her country is in danger. Fi's tend to have rock solid values, meanin strong, but equally stiff. That may mean killing for country, especially if under an attack and there really is one's whole family at stake. Oh and let's not forget that there might be involved some influental religious warleaders practising terrorism like Osama bin Laden and George Bush. For some, infidels are less human, especially when threatened by them.
Oh, and in some wartime armies, when you're forced to join, the motive for killing is sometimes mostly self-defense. As you may survive the war, but you won't survive
There might be a patriotic INFj torturing Bradley Manning at the moment, though INFj is one of the least likely types.
Among healthy INFjs, this is getting close to theoretical possibility.
Very highly unlikely.
Anyone can under a need and I can even imagine EII doing a white collar theft.
Twisted ones propably will do that, propably passively.
They're one of the least likely types to get their own hands dirty.
Hey, but this is just something that what this
The answer to all of these, is yes. All humans are capable of evil. INFj or no INFj, what restrains us is our own conscience.
But to really answer the question, we got to ask not just what "evil" means, but also what it means to be "INFj". What is an "INFj"?
Simply someone whose brain is physically wired and structured in a particular way. So the real question is: What about this structure that ties in with INFj traits? Instead of asking in what ways an INFj can or cannot be evil.
We're more likely to take our own because we feel so connected to others, we feel an appendage of human nature and if we feel hopeless about the many injustices that are not resolved or that the world does not reflect our ideals and we feel helpless (we take on things on our own shoulders, so to say), we may very easily take our lives. Van Gogh's syndrom is very common in me; this is not a cry for help but it's reality when I say that I'm very capable of removing myself from this world and if it were not for the people I lived for, my family, my loved ones, I could do so easily. Insane expression of one's feelings, like Van Gogh did by chopping his ear off and mailing it to his lover, is not something I can do because I'm not of that culture and emotional "teaching" of that environment. Can they take a person's life for the greater good of all mankind? That depends on their culture. But, the EII would rationalize it. We would justify and rationalize killing as doing it to for the greater good of the rest of mankind; we might feel great guilt, because of that search of the goodness in others and time and again revisit our actions from many perspective, but it would have to be an atrocious case to murder someone. It would have to be a case in which a terrible person was undoubtably of no cure who was headed towards a town of innocent humans and where he could not be retained.
No. We're individualistic in many cases and we don't do things just because a government says it's right to do; maybe the people running that government have malicious intentions; we have to be sure beyond all reasonable doubts.
No. We're more likely to walk away.
Depends on what the war is and what the cause for that war is.
Somewhat more likely than fighting for man kinds beliefs or ends.
I'm too tiny, so that's kind of unlikely, but if I can I'd try to run away rather than take mediocre chances at trying to get hurt far worse than if I tried to provoke an aggressive fight. Defending our kids is a major yes.
If the person was unreasonably aggressive, irrational, unwilling to resort to speaking their aggressions out. And, what do you mean by torturing; I'm thinking more along the lines of nagging.
NEVER. I can say that with absolute affirmation because it's a crime that requires either unreasonable amount of direct action that's impulsive and driven by irrational emotional thought. EII are very rational and think things out so the feeling of others and the way a person responds out of fear, hurt pain, will drive us to utter tears and action is inconceivable and not rationally arguable.
Depends on the culture they are from. In my culture (I'm Armenian), we are taught that teenagers are kids and so we have sexual relations with adults; there are armenians who don't follow or adhere to cultural traditions who are this way, but very unlikely that they are EII.
They may want something material and may not take it unless it was given to them by mistake; that is moral retributions. If I walk into a store and a cashier wrapped up an additional item and put it in my purse, I haven't stolen it if he gave it to me because they got confused; that's not stealing because I didn't take the item myself. I was given it. I've heard that argument and I've used it in the past, but now I see it as financially unfair to use this moral argument because it hurt the vendor to make mistakes like this and being a responsible citizen means supporting the business that offer you services so if I find myself in such a situation, I'll return it and I'll say, "be careful next time." It's true, not all people are like me, but being like me comes from being mature and understanding the way things work on a bigger picture.
Like what?
I wish. I would get everyone here to have a degree of niceness towards each other; as it is, it's very unlikely. No is my general answer, we try to be kind and by doing so we hope that people will take that in account about us and behave nicely, generously, benevolently towards us and consider us in their actions.
Depends on how well an EII has learned to argue, present their case. I've seen an EII who takes advantage of people by asking kind people to do things for them. This has become a test of that person's degree of relationship loyalty, this, however, was learned because this EII was emotionally hurt and abandoned by her father; who had very few loyal relations; she translated loyalty to mean and be interpreted by another's actions of her requests. Once people called them out on her ways, she apologized and resumed honest relations with them. In a subconscious way, she wanted to be found out because that meant to her that the person calling her on it did so because they loved her.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-22-2011 at 08:50 PM.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
That's the theory, anyway. Stereotypically, EIIs are angels.
Hmm. But what of this quote from Wikisocion?
Although it is by no means necessary, this may also manifest itself as a general rejection or aversion to violence or force as a means or way of life.
Yes. I seriously don't think we have the capability of such malice as emotions and characters of types exist within us and haunt us with guilt at every possibility of the thought of such actions and being rational types, we consider these things before we take action, sort of a preference for planning, talking to ourselves, talking out our actions coming to conclusions of what's moral, right and wrong, good or bad. It's bad to be in such a way anyway.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Wrong. Experience speaking here. Not theory.
If we're the type that's supposed to know that fine morals, than what's moral about an immoral EII acting in such a manner? (Philosophical but very interesting never the less.)
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Everyone is the good guy in their own story @Arsal
Can they be evil? Sure.
Would they be typed EII here? I doubt it.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
and I'm not evil and everyone types me EII. But am I still non-stereotypical EII, maybe many EIIs are evil deep inside and I lack some of those genes.
You know everyone, Ive met them before. They aerent much fun to be around, thats for sure, and they hurt others for the sake of making others feel the pain. True misery machines.
EII are very empathetic people. When I was a kid I remember empathizing with the devil.That maybe he ought to be given the opportunity to become a better person. I don't think an EII would consciously become evil, but I don't think its that way w/ anybody. We all pursue happiness; we just look in really stupid places sometimes. When I think about a personage who has wounded another, I think they are just as wounded, as deformed, as dead inside as the person they've harmed. A great example is Ras Al Ghul from Batman. He believes he's genuinely doing the right thing. In defense of the people they love, EIIs can be extremely violent. The same thing can be seen with the LII; Robespierre's "Reign of Terror".
You're seriously twisted in thinking such a thing could possibly exist. Fi base types objection is only one thing, it's to have a loving relationship and if this doesn't happen and formations of such is not taking place, then the Fi base will abandon the relationship; we're not out there for fun and experience (Se and Fe). You have seriously mistyped your experiences.
Sorry, just another frustrated reaction on my part.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
No, you're wrong. It just happened to me with an EII in another thread.
Are you referring that it happened with me; why are you being so indirect?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Haha! Death is going to be pleasant for me.
You won't get my humor.
My idea of an INFj gone wrong: A tortured soul, gaining no Te support from the environment, lots of external demands and hence Se PoLR hits, has a love-hate relationship with humanity. Touched with realism, understands constraints and the limits of compassion. Smashed ideals, understands the gray, the difficulties of the white, tasting the evils of the black, yet stubbornly persisting in aligning with the ideals of the white.
An evil INFj is evil mostly to himself. He suffers in silence. Nobody knows.
ETA: Except that a person who suffers, even silently never suffers alone. People who care for them suffer along with them.
Last edited by InkStrider; 10-09-2011 at 10:55 PM.
Isn't that what I'm trying to do here?
I don't get your humor now, maybe, because I'm in a bit of pain. Sorry, forgive me. It might be kind of hard to judge humor for an EII over the net too, please make obvious emotional reactions after a joke, likeor
or a silly goofy symbol. I can be oblivious to things around me....I'm a bit on the serious side.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Hey, that's me.
This is incredibly insightful InkStrider though should not necessarily be thought of or limited to a gone wrong person of this type if I am indeed one. For out of smashed ideals, painful experiences and hurts etc can emerge a person better able to handle general life with a more relaxed mindset.
What you wrote about above is sad to experience or witness but this seems to be the way it is for many of these delicate and innocent like souls. It is really quite disturbing that one may have to go through this but it can enable a strength to grow from the type that was lacking. Not that they did not have a strength before, it's just that it was more of an unusual, perhaps internal spiritual kind. The developing strength involves gaining skills to survive future issues and obstacles in life.
I don't believe that any one has the right to damage or change such a beautiful soul but that is what often occurs.
As for evil INFj's, the type is quite capable of a bit of naughtiness and white lies etc though usually will feel guilt if they engage in this. They can feel rage occasionally and want to whack someone on the head with a pillow etc. They can be so angry with others at times that they are frightening, they sometimes swear, the list goes on and on into the really bad stuff for at the end of the day they are just humans and all humans are capable of evil.
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