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    Default Intelligent people use more drugs

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    Possibly because they absorb the world faster and therefore require/are led to explore new experiences quicker. (I vaguely extrapolate this from the idea that novelty and boredom-avoidance is a universal-ish human trait, and how less intelligent people require more mental resources to deal with a problem than more intelligent people. Pure speculation FTW!)

    I think a small contributor is also that they're more likely to have a realistic idea of the actual risks of taking illegal drugs, and therefore don't immediately jump to the conclusion that they're "illegal for a reason", whereas more intelligent people realise that government policy isn't necessarily informed policy. Fear of the unknown etc.

    Also, the writer of that blog sounds like a massive douchebag...
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    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100224132655.html

    This too, also intelligent people to be sexually exclusive because that's a fairly evolutionary novel thing to do as well.

    Kanazawa is pretty much a douchebag tho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100224132655.html

    This too, also intelligent people to be sexually exclusive because that's a fairly evolutionary novel thing to do as well
    It does seem to play well into Kanazawa's pet theory, doesn't it. But from what I've read it sounds like his "evolutionary novelty" theory isn't widely accepted, mainly because his line of argument is full of questionable reasoning and he's not so good at data analysis. Commentary here.
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    I would be hesitant to put much stock in this article. "“Very bright” individuals (with IQs above 125) are roughly three-tenths of a standard deviation more likely to consume psychoactive drugs than “very dull” individuals (with IQs below 75)." He doesn't say how much of a difference there is between normal and very bright individuals. Instead he compares those who are very bright with those who would be considered mentally retarded and probably less like to consume drugs due to that. The graph is also kind of deceptive because it looks like there is a lot of difference between very bright and normal but there is maybe a .15 difference in "latent factor for frequency of drug consumption." I would definitely want to read the actual study and not this guys blog to figure out the real findings.

    "Once the social and demographic variables are controlled, however, the positive association between childhood intelligence and adult drug consumption is not statistically significant in the American Add Health sample."

    It is interesting that the data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health does not confirm the findings in the previous study. The second study found no significant results because demographic and social variance contributed a lot to the variance supposedly observed from intelligence. This also should make someone question the validity of what this guy is saying.
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    In 2006, Kanazawa published a paper suggesting that the poor health of people in some nations is the result not of poverty, but of lower intelligence.
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    Argh the more I read about him the more pissed off I get. He sounds like evolutionary psychology's version of a conservative shock jock, selectively using data to validate his illogical viewpoints.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 何mu
    intelligent people to be sexually exclusive
    Thanks for flattering me hk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octopussy
    Possibly because they absorb the world faster and therefore require/are led to explore new experiences quicker.
    Entirely right. Also, drugs enable your mind to transfer receptors at higher voltage and frequencies, which increase the neuron activity.

    Secondarily, many young intelligent people are social mal-adapts and hence have not found the right people to function as 'drugs' to them (i.e. give them the above experience without chemicals, research has shown that pop music has a similar effect to some drugs. I should imagine that people you know and love also has that).

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    I wonder why this is?
    Has your SLE ever said something akin to or tangentially similar to "You're my drug'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    Also, drugs enable your mind to transfer receptors at higher voltage and frequencies, which increase the neuron activity.
    ...Well, A FEW drugs do that. Kind of. You have the right words in there but you have the science wrong haha. Anyways.


    In general I've found that intelligent people aren't really into making their brains function better, other than for sitting exams etc., usually they complain that they're depressed that they feel like they're not on the same level as others and they want to slow down their brain so they can interact with their peers, so depressants would actually be the drug of choice.


    Secondarily, many young intelligent people are social mal-adapts and hence have not found the right people to function as 'drugs' to them (i.e. give them the above experience without chemicals, research has shown that pop music has a similar effect to some drugs. I should imagine that people you know and love also has that).
    Dopamine.
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    drugs = sex = higher intelligence population

    yeah yeah so I guess I'm a fool for not doing drugs. but i do wonder if lots of people who do drugs are already dull to begin with and want some excitement in their lives. most people i know who claim others don't have much of a life as them, are actually pretty dull themselves and live the most typical mundane "party" life. the whole intelligence = "exploring the deepest levels of life's education" thing here really is a contradiction i think. that pertains just to having experience / becoming the everyday man, which most high-intelligence people don't need to do and don't think about
    Last edited by 717495; 10-07-2011 at 06:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    You may as well cite this too, which is also from Psychology Today: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...k-more-alcohol

    So if modern psychology tells you anything, it's that the very bright are drunken junkies lol.

    Although I think it's more likely that psychologists are more likely to take drugs and publish studies like these to validate their own drug use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poli View Post
    but i do wonder if lots of people who do drugs are already dull to begin with and want some excitement in their lives.
    i found that i became "duller" to other people after i started using drugs. i used to be more novel and passionate about interesting topics but i guess with drug use you realize you can feel intensities beyond just mental explorations and you get lazy.

    idk i'm pfetty drunk so ill come back to this topic
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    I wonder if druggies know something I don't, like that I shouldn't be trying to have a fulfilling life full of personal magic and treasures or something. maybe more intelligent people don't want to be intelligent thus their choice to rot their brain and not be able to think sharply and use their natural talents anymore.

    i actually think dumber people believe they're pretty smart, because the dumber you are the more things make sense to you. the more you can just react and explore your basic non-deep perceptions

    I personally think a combination of both hard and smart work for what you're passionate about is the primary answer to a fulfilling life and the most healthy/wealthy 'drug/perspective', except you normally wouldn't hear me say this at all. I'm pretty far from being a hard worker

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    That's because they want to partake in a collective regression to the mean. Also, they're more likely to hold jobs that don't require drug testing and don't require operating dangerous machinery on a daily basis.

    Anyway most of these studies use horrible statistical techniques, but atm I don't feel like going into more detail about their wrongness
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    Intelligence is correlated with Big Five's Openness To Experience. More intelligence means more openness means less enculturated barriers against experimentation with substances.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Intelligent people use more drugs [than whales do.]
    Obviously you're not dumping enough into the oceans.

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    So the fact that I experimented with pot in the past makes me more intelligent? Haha. Anyways, I don't think it has any bearing on intelligence, but rather traits like open mindedness and being exploratory in nature. However, if intelligence is correlated with those traits or not is up for debate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Perhaps it's valid for a country such as the U.S., but it isn't valid for a country like the Netherlands, where drugs, especially those based on cannabis, are relatively easy to get.
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    Adrenaline influences it. A lot of things do. A lot of things also influence how its structured, which is a whole other tangent onto itself. This is a pretty broad topic with less information attainable than required to conclude jack shit appropriately.

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    intelligence shows itself in the drug culture like any other. I think there's a predisposition in more intelligent people towards psychedelics, but environmental factors can still influence this. anyway, the smartest "druggies" I've met were cidheads. there's only one reason you do stuff like that, whereas any nigger on the wall can down a four loko. ime things like weed, coke and ecstasy are broadly distributed, with meth a little more extreme, and junkies for some reason have been the most varied.

    personally the only reason I do drugs is for the inner experience, and don't see how any moderately intelligent person couldn't benefit from psychedelics. I remember being told growing up how much acid fucks up your brain, blah blah, yet I did roughly 20 tabs my first time, and it had nothing but positive effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardia View Post
    I would be hesitant to put much stock in this article. "“Very bright” individuals (with IQs above 125) are roughly three-tenths of a standard deviation more likely to consume psychoactive drugs than “very dull” individuals (with IQs below 75)." He doesn't say how much of a difference there is between normal and very bright individuals. Instead he compares those who are very bright with those who would be considered mentally retarded and probably less like to consume drugs due to that. The graph is also kind of deceptive because it looks like there is a lot of difference between very bright and normal but there is maybe a .15 difference in "latent factor for frequency of drug consumption." I would definitely want to read the actual study and not this guys blog to figure out the real findings.

    "Once the social and demographic variables are controlled, however, the positive association between childhood intelligence and adult drug consumption is not statistically significant in the American Add Health sample."

    It is interesting that the data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health does not confirm the findings in the previous study. The second study found no significant results because demographic and social variance contributed a lot to the variance supposedly observed from intelligence. This also should make someone question the validity of what this guy is saying.
    I agree with you, I looked at that chart and it's laughable. I would say that mentally retarded people are unable to obtain drugs because they don't earn any money and they're being taken care of by caretakers such as parents; people just above that level are probably very poor; and the higher you go, the more money people are earning, and the more money they have to experiment with any kinds of drugs at all, whether they be prescription drugs or illegal drugs or over the counter drugs. Intelligent people are (often, but not always) wealthier. So yeah, this is influenced by factors other than just intelligence.

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    i do drugs because i'm a human being who wants to experience the full spectrum of all things possible to feel. i've never understood why that was looked down upon in society. for that same reason, i'm always trying new foods, dreaming of travelling to foreign places, experimenting sexually, and open to experiences new people bring me. for all i know this is my only life and i don't want to feel like i've lived it narrowly, on some socio-economic predetermined path. adults don't really have the luxury of completely altering our sense of perception once we've built up biases and assumptions about the world. we develop a way of interpreting and metabolizing information and we miss out on certain things children wouldn't.

    so why wouldn't i try lsd and have my mind opened to an entirely new plane of reality? see the world in a way your dreams cannot even take you? i've tried various opiates because i wanted to feel greater intensities of pleasure our natural body restricts us from feeling. i could go on with these stupid examples but you get the point. essentially i've done a lot of different kinds of drugs and all of them have benefited me in that now my body has experienced greater feelings of various emotions such as empathy, wonder/excitement, motivation, ecstasy, and a contentment i never thought possible... but also unpleasant ones — now that i think of it, some of these feelings cannot be listed because they don't exist on a sober plane.

    but i keep in mind drugs aren't everything. they're only a fraction of what's out there. so i never let myself become addicted to anything, or damage my health in any significant way. i still want a decently long, healthy life. right now i'm a broke college student who doesn't have a lot of resources, so now's a good time to travel altered states. maybe when i'm older i can travel the real world.
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    Drugs distort clarity. Would you wear out-of-focus glasses for the experieince? There's never a reason to put things into your body that nature didn't intend. And even then, some will do serious damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post
    Drugs distort clarity. Would you wear out-of-focus glasses for the experieince?
    first of all, what is clarity exactly? whatever it is, anything at all could affect or distort it. we're affected by so many things on a daily basis: our background, our education, geographics, who we've spoken to, our losses, experiences etc. All of these factors create an altered perception. even sexual urges affect our clarity and rationality but you're not going to cut off your balls.

    saying you don't experiences altered states is like saying you're not an alien. clarity doesn't fall in a gradation from fuzzy to clear. there aren't just blurry or sharp-focus glasses. there are thousands of lenses that allow us to see different colors, magnifications, and opacities. drugs just allow you to try on different pairs.
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    If you are able to make rational decisions while in a drug-altered state, with the necessary psyco-motor control to keep yourself safe and functioning, then yes, your point is entirely right Allie.

    But Cyrano assumes that most people who use recreational drugs are unable to maintain control over themselves while doing so. This is also a reasonable statement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    first of all, what is clarity exactly?
    haha

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    people here are so quick to cast judgement. no wonder i stopped posting.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    i do drugs because i'm a human being who wants to experience the full spectrum of all things possible to feel. i've never understood why that was looked down upon in society. for that same reason, i'm always trying new foods, dreaming of travelling to foreign places, experimenting sexually, and open to experiences new people bring me. for all i know this is my only life and i don't want to feel like i've lived it narrowly, on some socio-economic predetermined path. adults don't really have the luxury of completely altering our sense of perception once we've built up biases and assumptions about the world. we develop a way of interpreting and metabolizing information and we miss out on certain things children wouldn't.

    so why wouldn't i try lsd and have my mind opened to an entirely new plane of reality? see the world in a way your dreams cannot even take you? i've tried various opiates because i wanted to feel greater intensities of pleasure our natural body restricts us from feeling. i could go on with these stupid examples but you get the point. essentially i've done a lot of different kinds of drugs and all of them have benefited me in that now my body has experienced greater feelings of various emotions such as empathy, wonder/excitement, motivation, ecstasy, and a contentment i never thought possible... but also unpleasant ones — now that i think of it, some of these feelings cannot be listed because they don't exist on a sober plane.

    but i keep in mind drugs aren't everything. they're only a fraction of what's out there. so i never let myself become addicted to anything, or damage my health in any significant way. i still want a decently long, healthy life. right now i'm a broke college student who doesn't have a lot of resources, so now's a good time to travel altered states. maybe when i'm older i can travel the real world.
    <2<2<2<2<2

    I don't believe in consuming myself with altered experience, I value lucidity and order quite a lot, but there are times where you need to kick start the creative engine.

    I'm basically a teetotaler, but there are times in my life where a few altered experiences have made me go down both negative and positive paths and from both paths I have gained a lot of life experience.

    The only danger of many drugs is just addiction, which is debilitating and soul crushing.

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    people here are so quick to cast judgement. no wonder i stopped posting.
    where did that come from? ??
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    where did that come from? ??
    Well, in her post that questions clarity, she describes the effects of drugs in general, that is they open up many different lenses of viewing reality, and by ignoring those planes of reality (markedly separate from reason) and claiming that her actions must be 'reasonable' while under the influence in order for her point to be correct, you admit that you either do not take value or do not believe in these lenses, which comprise the main purpose for doing drugs from Allie's perspective (from what I understand). In doing so, your response may be interpreted to pass judgement upon her actions, though I'm sure you didn't mean it. Maybe you didn't see the post, didn't understand it right away - your innocence could easily be proved. That's just what I saw.

    Yeah, drugs can be great! I was chilling out with some friends just this week passing around a cigar, sampling other 'cuisines' if you will. Very chilled out, niiiice and relaxed, best experience I've had for a long time.

    As for the studies shown above, I am highly doubtful of their integrity - any study using IQ as a measurement of intelligence arouses suspicion in me, and I very much doubt the competence of news outlets to properly relay scientific research. Couldn't find the study sources themselves... I'm just really unhappy that there exist seldom few credible scientific studies that analyze the effects of low dosages of a variety of drugs over long periods of time. Until then, studies like this are moot to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlast View Post
    any study using IQ as a measurement of intelligence arouses suspicion in me
    How else would you measure intelligence?
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Oh come on allie. I'm not saying you are WRONG and that you're a BAD GIRL and whatever but rather that your point is entirely valid that we all have different 'lenses' everyday based on our own different set of circumstances, and that yes, taking drugs will give us another lens to look out the world with.

    That being said, clarity is often defined, as HK says, with lucidity, and drugs often take that away from us. What you're saying is that there are certain situations in life where our lucidity or clarity is taken away too, such as when a loved on passes away, we get retrenched, a person says mean things about us, but the difference is that with maturity and the social support from our friends, we can work out a rational solution and response to the bad stuff that happens. Drugs take away this rationality and lucidity for a period of time, and all I'm saying is that if we are able to make use of the different lens we see through during or after the drug-altered state while remaining physically safe, then yes, drugs DO help us in our lives.

    I'm not saying this is impossible either, in fact many musicians, writers, or even scientists, are able to translate the burst of creativity and period of relaxation provided by the use of drugs to produce a unique and beautiful craft, impossible to otherwise achieve without the clarity of unfettered altered experience afforded by the use of recreational drugs. I am just reconciling this POV with Cyrano's, since it is also very true that many of these users end up wasting that experience, or make bad and harmful decisions after that.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    Oh come on allie. I'm not saying you are WRONG and that you're a BAD GIRL and whatever but rather that your point is entirely valid that we all have different 'lenses' everyday based on our own different set of circumstances, and that yes, taking drugs will give us another lens to look out the world with.

    That being said, clarity is often defined, as HK says, with lucidity, and drugs often take that away from us. What you're saying is that there are certain situations in life where our lucidity or clarity is taken away too, such as when a loved on passes away, we get retrenched, a person says mean things about us, but the difference is that with maturity and the social support from our friends, we can work out a rational solution and response to the bad stuff that happens. Drugs take away this rationality and lucidity for a period of time, and all I'm saying is that if we are able to make use of the different lens we see through during or after the drug-altered state while remaining physically safe, then yes, drugs DO help us in our lives.

    I'm not saying this is impossible either, in fact many musicians, writers, or even scientists, are able to translate the burst of creativity and period of relaxation provided by the use of drugs to produce a unique and beautiful craft, impossible to otherwise achieve without the clarity of unfettered altered experience afforded by the use of recreational drugs. I am just reconciling this POV with Cyrano's, since it is also very true that many of these users end up wasting that experience, or make bad and harmful decisions after that.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    But Cyrano assumes that most people who use recreational drugs are unable to maintain control over themselves while doing so. This is also a reasonable statement.
    Strongly disagree. The vast majority of drug users use them without "losing control". Take alcohol for example - most people can have one or two drinks and enjoy the social lubricant effects without binge drinking, or becoming an alcoholic, or getting into a fight. It's the same with most users of illicit drugs, with some notable exceptions (meth, heroin, crack etc.), which are used far less than the less harmful drugs (weed, ecstasy, acid, shrooms).
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post
    There's never a reason to put things into your body that nature didn't intend. And even then, some will do serious damage.

    Coffee is my drug.
    How is coffee more "natural" than weed or shrooms? Coffee needs to be processed for weeks before consumption, whereas weed takes days and shrooms are ready-to-eat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Atlast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    How else would you measure intelligence?
    I only mean to point out that the concept and word intelligence is a man made abstraction, like the word happy. Numbers and formulas are exceedingly efficient at describing our reality, but I don't think they can be used to generate a model for quantifying and putting into numbers our abstractions unless we dive deep into mathematical theory (but that's only because it gets really abstract! ). I believe that psychology isn't a widely recognized science because it must make extensive use of abstractions to accurately describe the human experience - perhaps one day we will bridge that gap, but until that day I will resent IQ tests and anything like them.

    That is ultimately just my personal stance on the matter - I see other perspectives as being similarly valid, but meaning different things, for some have a conceptualized understanding of intelligence such that one's level of intelligence indirectly scales with higher scores on the IQ test, which is a perfectly understandable outlook, but has enough hidden variables that I'm skeptical of its use but not forbidding.

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    Azeroffs's Avatar
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    My opinion is that it's because intelligent people are usually more curious and less prone to accepting "drugs are bad" as a given.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    In Transition Raver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    <2<2<2<2<2

    I don't believe in consuming myself with altered experience, I value lucidity and order quite a lot, but there are times where you need to kick start the creative engine.

    I'm basically a teetotaler, but there are times in my life where a few altered experiences have made me go down both negative and positive paths and from both paths I have gained a lot of life experience.

    The only danger of many drugs is just addiction, which is debilitating and soul crushing.
    Now I know not to believe you anymore when you say you're drunk at the chatbox. Unless you consider alcohol not being a drug, but it is, just not an evolutionary novel one.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
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    Cat King Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post
    Drugs distort clarity. Would you wear out-of-focus glasses for the experieince? There's never a reason to put things into your body that nature didn't intend. And even then, some will do serious damage.

    Coffee is my drug.
    When the experience of out-of-focus glasses looks like this:



    Yes!
    Know I'm mistyped?


    Why I am now.
    Why I was , once.

    DISCLAIMER
    The statements expressed in this signature may not necessarily reflect reality.

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    I get what you mean octopus. I guess I was only thinking of hard drugs
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

  40. #40
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Now I know not to believe you anymore when you say you're drunk at the chatbox. Unless you consider alcohol not being a drug, but it is, just not an evolutionary novel one.
    Alcohol is more food then drug for me, I mean wine for cooking, beer for cooking, etc, etc.

    http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/09/why-alcohol-is-good-for-you/

    It's healthy and you live longer as it's a social thing.

    I don't drink alcohol to have a altered state, although it's a side effect and sometimes desired, I drink it for the social value and flavor. I'm actually kind of annoyed at some of the effects of alcohol most of the time.

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