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Thread: for those who type me

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    fka lungs ashlesha's Avatar
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    Default for those who type me

    please tell me the thoughts that went into it.

    you don't have to try to convince me unless you really want to. I just want to know what's going through your heads.

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    InkStrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    please tell me the thoughts that went into it.

    you don't have to try to convince me unless you really want to. I just want to know what's going through your heads.
    Just cos I like you as Delta NF. It's more instinct than a typing well thought out and considered in your case.

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    thank you.

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    Slippery when wet Simon Ssmall's Avatar
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    Cookie baking EII. Just because you and UDP would make a cuuute couple
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

    ENFp - Fi 7w6 sp/sx
    The Ineffable IEI
    The Einstein ENTp

    johari nohari
    http://www.mypersonality.info/ssmall/

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    It's not easy to type you Kassie. For instance, I don't know your age, I don't know what you do. I don't know enough about you, and I can't pretend that I know you.

    That being said, with what I know about you I can attempt to work out something.

    It may not be a far stretch to say that you may not actually be an ethical type. I hear you talking about typing accuracy, typing procedures, and thought processes, which I'm pretty sure any type can be talking about, but your greater interest in these than other girls seems to imply a logical bias. You are, in a sense, very similar to Aiss.

    Both of you are very focused on information, and actively disagree with people with whose thinking you feel has a logical dissonance with you. Aiss, more so than you, is more intellectually focused; or at least, this trait is displayed more prominently in her than in you.

    That being said, I will not discount the possibility that you may be Fi instead of Ti/Te. It has been a sort of tradition that Aiss and yourself are typed along the Fi/Te axis, as opposed to the Ti/Fe one. If Aiss were ILI, you would be an IXFj of sorts. If anything, you lean more towards Gamma.

    Conversations with you always remind me that you are a girl with teeth; it is not easy to subdue you, much like the other Ne types (delta's leaning towards Alpha or Alphas leaning towards Delta). I would therefore surmise a guess that you are Fi-IXFj. I would put you in between Gamma and Delta; if Gamma, leaning more towards Delta than noisy Beta; if Delta, leaning more towards angsty Gamma than childish Alpha.

    My opinion is that you are Fi-base with 60/40 Se/Ne split. You need to ask yourself about PoLR. Are you more fearful of confrontation than unexpected changes, or is it the other way around? My typing of you is based on my opinion of your answer to that question: Fi-ISFj.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    Oh, so why Fi instead of Te? Easy answer. You're clearly IJ>IP or EJ.

    Your relationship with Aiss is dynamic enough to imply a difference in temperament. She is clearly IP.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    From what you told me about yourself I would think delta NF, but hey, nothing is what it seems. Don't know how much of it was true or false. Anyway, good luck or something.

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    fka lungs ashlesha's Avatar
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    lol small you ass.

    Reuben - cool I didn't even know you typed me. lol @ bringing up the kaissie. interesting that logical types crossed your mind.

    absurd - do you mean things I told you or things I "implied?" also I think I should point out that by the standards you have for others, switching from eii to delta nf is an inconsistency which means you must be a liar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    absurd - do you mean things I told you or things I "implied?" also I think I should point out that by the standards you have for others, switching from eii to delta nf is an inconsistency which means you must be a liar.
    Haha! I always typed you EII. I think EII is delta NF in fact, correct me if I'm wrong, though. But hey, it is up to you. As of late I don't know what was implied or told, got a bit confused.

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    Marxist Ne’er-do-well Red Villain's Avatar
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    You're definitely one of the sixteen types.....
    "We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.".

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    fka lungs ashlesha's Avatar
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    unless there's something wrong with me!

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    unless there's something wrong with me!
    Are you suggesting...or..?

    Your engine seems to be running fine, from here.
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

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    fka lungs ashlesha's Avatar
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    nah it was just a snide reference to the idea that type is something inherent to being a person. its possible only I got my own joke lol.

    thank you, though. there's plenty wrong with me but probably not much more than your average human.

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    My typing of you as INFj mostly revolves around the similarities I find between the two of us. We tend to have similar sentiments and thought processes towards things. Ne sub because you come off as more non-sequiter than Ji-IJs tend to be, but your thought processes aren't as scattered as Pe-EP tends to be.

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    thank you galen. is it possible to be more specific about the similarities? i can see both similarities and differences (um, like with most people, derp) and i'm just curious if there is anything you can point to or if its just a sense of things being copacetic or what.

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    thank you galen. is it possible to be more specific about the similarities? i can see both similarities and differences (um, like with most people, derp) and i'm just curious if there is anything you can point to or if its just a sense of things being copacetic or what.
    It's clear that both of you have Fi. Like I surmised, Kassie is most likely Se>Ne.

    is it possible to be more specific about the similarities?
    (um, like with most people, derp)
    nah it was just a snide reference
    It may not be immediately clear, but these comments imply thought processes that are tangentially correlated more to Se than Ne. Paired with Fi of course.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    thank you galen. is it possible to be more specific about the similarities? i can see both similarities and differences (um, like with most people, derp) and i'm just curious if there is anything you can point to or if its just a sense of things being copacetic or what.
    um, sad to say I can't remember anything specific lol

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    fka lungs ashlesha's Avatar
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    i think i do act differently from when i first got here and that's frustrating. because its not like there's some kind of traceable thing where i could point to one post i've written and say "this is a perfect representation of me entire and whole, caught in time." and i also feel like its unfair for that sort of thing to be expected.

    am i being insincere, have i ever been insincere? i've never FELT that way even if i can look at my posts and see they are different. and so, like, absurd making a point to say i'm a liar or something its like...i dont know. i hope i'm not? i don't try to be, lol. the best way for me to reconcile it is to think about how who you are at any given second of time is who you are, if that makes sense. i'm not the person i was yesterday and tomorrow i'll be different. if i try to think of it otherwise it drives me nuts trying to pin down some kind of forever and ever and filling all empty spaces identity that just plain does not exist.

    i've gotten really skeptical/jaded about socionics and how it merges with the forum and becomes politics and i am more easily able to express when i'm fed up or dislike someone because of the familiarity i've grown to have with this place. those are a couple of things that have changed.

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    ഗന᎕ᒹ ±ᗉᚔXᙂഗ woofwoofl's Avatar
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    I've got you at Se-ESI right now

    I was never able to nail you down as EII solidly like I was with Arsal or Maritsa, you come off differently than the commonly-accepted EIIs here, and I really, really like the way the cognitive styles align with you as ESI (Holographical-Panoramic, so Negativist and Result).

    As for the subtyping? I suspect you lean more on the Perceiving functions a bit more than the Judging functions than average...

    I also like the way my typing of you at ESI fits into my other typings as far as relations go; nothing that would hop the line for me immediately, but it sure does make me sit on ESI harder...

  20. #20
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    Kassie... laghlagh... how do I say this politely?

    We're not exactly each other's biggest fans.

    I think we're both mature, and try to get along, but how can I say... I think seeing you in an opposing quadra is very easy. Now that people peg me as ESFj, I DO agree ISFj makes a lot of sense for you. I do see plenty Fi in your posts. Thought EII made ok-ish sense, but seemed a bit off.

    Regardless, I wish you the best of luck in figuring out your type!

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    lol, thanks woofie and dew for the input.

    just for clarity dew, its not about figuring out my type but about seeing why people come up with the types they do. have they thought about it much, is it a passing impression, did they go with consensus, is it more vibe-based or more specific, etc. etc. when i see that people have typings for me - especially if they bring the typing up in casual non-socionics conversation - it makes me curious about where they got the idea from in the first place and what that means about how theyve seen me, what kind of assumptions they might be making, if any, and if any of that even matters re: our interaction.

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Because that was the first type you chose for yourself, and in my track record first-self-typings are those with the highest chance of correctness.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    i haven't noticed any change in behavior. you've always been a typical and unproblematic INFj. this is a good thing.

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    thanks fdg.

    lol labocat I want to hug you.

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie
    lol labocat I want to hug you.
    :jealous:
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    and so, like, absurd making a point to say i'm a liar or something its like...i dont know. i hope i'm not? i don't try to be, lol.
    I just don't know what's going on, as you said yourself, 'implying' something and telling me something else. Don't get me wrong, but it really is confusing.

    the best way for me to reconcile it is to think about how who you are at any given second of time is who you are, if that makes sense. i'm not the person i was yesterday and tomorrow i'll be different. if i try to think of it otherwise it drives me nuts trying to pin down some kind of forever and ever and filling all empty spaces identity that just plain does not exist.
    I think you better not check Gulenko's Cognitive Styles as one here suggested but you already did, so it is pointless. Anyhow, does this make any sense to you: "Once you open a can of worms, the only way to recan them is to use a bigger can" ?

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    that isn't what i said myself. if it was implied it was unintentional.

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Ssmall View Post
    Cookie baking EII. Just because you and UDP would make a cuuute couple
    Except they cant stand each other. Which if UDP is LII as you maintain Kassie (which I highly doubt, but lets allow that possibility), if you are EII you should still get along decently, being business partners. E.g. like i get along with woof, aixelsyd, and my SEE best friends irl ( em!).


    Quote Originally Posted by CILi View Post
    What's Going Through My Head:

    When I try to type you (or, maybe better put, if I try to -- seeing as it's easier just to drop Socionics and think of you as "laghlagh-type", and you'd prob'ly far prefer that anyway), I'm hit by a really big disconnect between the vibe you gave when you first showed up at 16T and the vibe you've given the past couple months (give or take a couple months).

    I know full-well "typing by vibe" is pretty much the worst way to go about this stuff, but I often feel if I simply knew (or had a couple clues as to) why your Internet-personality/face/voice/character/persona/whatever/thing changed a little, then maybe your "Super-Official-Socionic-Info-Metabolical type" would be really, really clear to me.

    Only thing I've got now is Ixxx.
    Yeah I agree with this as well actually. I've felt it too.


    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    I've got you at Se-ESI right now

    I was never able to nail you down as EII solidly like I was with Arsal or Maritsa, you come off differently than the commonly-accepted EIIs here, and I really, really like the way the cognitive styles align with you as ESI (Holographical-Panoramic, so Negativist and Result).

    As for the subtyping? I suspect you lean more on the Perceiving functions a bit more than the Judging functions than average...

    I also like the way my typing of you at ESI fits into my other typings as far as relations go; nothing that would hop the line for me immediately, but it sure does make me sit on ESI harder...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    Kassie... laghlagh... how do I say this politely?

    We're not exactly each other's biggest fans.

    I think we're both mature, and try to get along, but how can I say... I think seeing you in an opposing quadra is very easy. Now that people peg me as ESFj, I DO agree ISFj makes a lot of sense for you. I do see plenty Fi in your posts. Thought EII made ok-ish sense, but seemed a bit off.

    Regardless, I wish you the best of luck in figuring out your type!
    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    My typing of you is based on my opinion of your answer to that question: Fi-ISFj.
    I think you are onto something woof, Mt Dew, and Reubs. The intertype between me and Kassie did sort of play out as supervision, as I'd been fond of Kassie since she arrived to the forum, but apparently she had all sorts of problems with me that apparently stemmed from her totally misconstruing/misunderstanding most things I say. As a result, a lot of tension has materialized between us. This dynamic might also be behind what CILi has felt. Descriptions of the supervision intertype do mention that the supervisor tends to like the supervisee and has trouble understanding why the supervisee thinks the supervisor is the evil incarnate. I think that describes us well.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    InkStrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    i think i do act differently from when i first got here and that's frustrating. because its not like there's some kind of traceable thing where i could point to one post i've written and say "this is a perfect representation of me entire and whole, caught in time." and i also feel like its unfair for that sort of thing to be expected.

    am i being insincere, have i ever been insincere? i've never FELT that way even if i can look at my posts and see they are different. and so, like, absurd making a point to say i'm a liar or something its like...i dont know. i hope i'm not? i don't try to be, lol. the best way for me to reconcile it is to think about how who you are at any given second of time is who you are, if that makes sense. i'm not the person i was yesterday and tomorrow i'll be different. if i try to think of it otherwise it drives me nuts trying to pin down some kind of forever and ever and filling all empty spaces identity that just plain does not exist.
    Don't blame yourself for insincerity, pal. All this stuff about having a set socionics type as being true to oneself is partly bollocks. How we act at any given moment is driven by the desire to be true to ourselves, unless we are intentionally deceiving ourselves for some strange reason. Acting in any way other than our perception of who we are at any given moment will only cause us pain brought upon by a deep sense of accusative hypocrisy at our own selves, a feeling all too clear to all forced to make difficult choices.

    For some people, sticking to a set type (or their perception of what it means to be a type) is the act of being true/sincere to themselves. Because they identify so much with it, the adamance they show regarding their own self-typing and/or against that of others may be seen as a reflection of the strength of such a desire (to be true/sincere to oneself). On the other hand, we have those who find it hard to settle on any type, or tend to change their types frequently. These actions too are driven by their desire to be sincere toward themselves, aren't they? The alternative would be to settle on a type prematurely with the sense of nagging doubt that we are not who we "pretend" ourselves to be, and suffer the exact pain as the non-type changer accused of being another type (Some may be forced to experience both in their socionics self-typing lifetime).

    At the root of it, we are all on the same boat in hating to be accused of being what we are not. A matter of different journeys driven by one same desire.
    Rest free from your doubts.



    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Because that was the first type you chose for yourself, and in my track record first-self-typings are those with the highest chance of correctness.
    FTR, I self-typed LIE for a long time before coming down to LSE. Because LSE sounded like some sort of boring bureaucratic hardworking hedonistic fool with no sense of prioritization and eye for the future. Stereotypes suck.

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    There's no way to know how any of this is accurate. For god sake, none of these people have ever even met you. Don't you realize how insane this all is? Why continue?

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    fka lungs ashlesha's Avatar
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    lol I accidentally hit thanks for WAs post.

    I do appreciate the post and the fact that its pretty civil even if i would describe events somewhat differently. intertype relations haven't escaped my attention but of course it depends on what types are being assigned to people. like if you are alpha sf what would it all mean, shrug. edit - I realized this probably sounds passive aggressive and I didn't mean it like that. you know I see you as likely alpha sf and you also know i have a skeptical attitude toward type anyway.


    inkstrider - thank you! those are very similar to the sorts of thoughts ive had about it. its nice to see maybe they make sense outside of my mind. your support is very kind.


    divided - it isn't about accuracy. this shit being subjective means accuracy isn't much of a factor. what and how people type me contains information about who that person is and how they see me and the shape of our "relationship," so to speak. that's what drives my curiosity. one thing about socionics and this place is I think what people say roundaboutly with theory is more honest than what they would say without it.
    Last edited by ashlesha; 10-05-2011 at 02:49 PM.

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    Grand Inquisitor Bardia's Avatar
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    I tend to think EII. From my observations you don't seem to respond well to Se style prompting from me. That may just be because you seem to have grown irritated with me or something over the past while. I don't think we are identicals. I usually feel a little bit more resonance with people who are ESI, even on the forum (such as say blackburry). You seem more similar to other EIIs on the forum and my second choice for you would be IEI. I agree there has been a shift in your demeanor since you joined the forum. Whether that is to due to a change in what you think about socionics or life events outside the forum only you know.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Divided View Post
    There's no way to know how any of this is accurate. For god sake, none of these people have ever even met you. Don't you realize how insane this all is? Why continue?
    Interesting question. Self-typing and identity are often intertwined. Since socionics type is deemed to be inborn, our dominant way of perceiving the world and our subsequent actions due to these perceptions affect our own behaviours, the interpretation of people's behaviours, and to a lower extent, our compatibility with people. A socionics type is the part of us that we cannot change. Why people relentlessly analyze themselves has to do with wanting to discover this part of themselves. The fact that we are able to see people with a comfortable fit and have come to terms with the system serves to reinforce the belief that it isn't BS, and frustrates the type searchers all the more.

    Typing may be difficult over the net, different people have different perceptions of who a person is, and forum persona gets in the way. But input is valuable all the same, as the person in question is able to gather from these and come to their own conclusions. At times, online interaction may be more "true" than that of most offline interactions, partly because we feel free to be ourselves due to a sense of anonymity. Which is why forum intertype relations can also be the most revealing. Most people who do know us in real life don't know socionics anyway, which limits the usefulness of their input (think MBTI).

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    fka lungs ashlesha's Avatar
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    bardia, thanks. I have felt resonance with you but I see you as exi so yeah lol. I don't remember feeling much resonance with blackburry though. im curious why your second choice would be iei if you notice me responding poorly to se. intuition in general?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    lol I accidentally hit thanks for WAs post.

    I do appreciate the post and the fact that its pretty civil even if i would describe events somewhat differently. intertype relations haven't escaped my attention but of course it depends on what types are being assigned to people. like if you are alpha sf what would it all mean, shrug. edit - I realized this probably sounds passive aggressive and I didn't mean it like that. you know I see you as likely alpha sf and you also know i have a skeptical attitude toward type anyway.
    .
    tbh, Kassie, i dont really know what you see me as, since you seem to keep changing your opinion of my type every time we talk, and it seems somehow to depend on what other people are saying about me. When people were suggesting i could be the benchmark Fi-IEE recently, at one point you actually said to me something along the lines of "how did you ever think you were an IEI when you're such an obvious IEE?" Then, when some others are putting ESE on the table, you flipflop to that typing. I actually think you dont really know socionics as well as you make the appearance of knowing. Because I dont think you really know what you're talking about, I dont actually care what type you think i am. I know i'm delta. Within delta, i'm less sure, but IEE seems to fit very well. EII is also a possibility as is SLI (less so). If not delta I'd sooner say i'm gamma than alpha, but really delta does fits me best. And I get along great with most gammas here, and tend to shy away from most alphas, which goes heavily against me being alpha. Somehow you seem to ignore that fact.
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    Im fickle in typing some people in part because I dont believe in the existence of "accurate" types. if you want clarity you could look at the spreadsheet where ive never changed it from ese) iee.

    really though I don't care much about your type or about the speculation you want to spin up about my motivations.

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    Yea its the general feeling that you are intuitive. I don't think you respond well to my kind of Se because I remember our interactions, but I don't really remember how you respond to others or beta Se. Though I think i recall you not getting along generally with betas now that I think about it... yep that's why I if I have to pick a type for you its EII.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Bardia0
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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    Im fickle in typing some people in part because I dont believe in the existence of "accurate" types. if you want clarity you could look at the spreadsheet where ive never changed it from ese) iee.

    really though I don't care much about your type or about the speculation you want to spin up about my motivations.
    See? this is exactly the kind of thing i'm talking about when i say you misconstrue things i say... I didn't speculate anything about any motivations you might have in what i said, nor am I attempting to "spin up" anything that way. We seem to constantly misinterpret each other for some reason. I highly doubt this degree of mutual misunderstanding would be the case if we are illusionaries as you are proposing. Seems more consistent with supervision, and I'm not the only one who has an impression of you that leads to an ESI typing.
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    I don't have it in my mind that we are illusionaries or any specific relation for that matter. I just don't think of socionics solidly like that.

    yes we do have trouble communicating, for whatever reason. you are similar to absurd in that you make up things I never said. but you think I do the same to you so whatever. assuming socionics has any merit at all the same quadra would not make sense. i think we have agreement there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    Kassie... laghlagh... how do I say this politely?
    To hell with politeness you politically correct mug.

    We're not exactly each other's biggest fans.
    Guess what.

    I think we're both mature, and try to get along, but how can I say... I think seeing you in an opposing quadra is very easy. Now that people peg me as ESFj, I DO agree ISFj makes a lot of sense for you. I do see plenty Fi in your posts. Thought EII made ok-ish sense, but seemed a bit off.
    That leaves IEI for her. I know, you're dying to type yourself LSE. For the record, you did type her IEI at one point.

    Regardless, I wish you the best of luck in figuring out your type!


    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    that isn't what i said myself. if it was implied it was unintentional.
    Alright, you can say whatever you want, but say it, don't hesitate.

    Thing is, I do not mean any harm to you, you did change. I told you same in PM a long time ago, but I don't know, you don't want to listen or something. People love you and hate you for who you are, and not for who you're not.

    As for your type, set up a poll, it is going to be easier for you to keep track of it. Just a suggestion. Oh yea, I don't want to sound like a genius or something, but it is a domino effect. I'm not saying it is wrong at all, but you can't maintain ones validity at typing and at the same time oppose it. All in all, I'm ready for it. It's going to be entertaining to say the least.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Except they cant stand each other. Which if UDP is LII as you maintain Kassie (which I highly doubt, but lets allow that possibility), if you are EII you should still get along decently, being business partners. E.g. like i get along with woof, aixelsyd, and my SEE best friends irl ( em!).
    This is a problem. I don't think I get along with ghetto blaster Ryu as well. Sure, I did say something when he said something to Kassie, nevertheless, anytime I read him I see cookies and pies. Thanks but no thanks.

    The intertype between me and Kassie did sort of play out as supervision
    Hehe.

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