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Thread: ESFj

  1. #1
    Creepy-Snaps

    Default ESFj

    Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup.

    Soooo, I can't argue with 30+ people who all agree on the same thing...

    The Ni Gammas are all saying I'm not being true to myself, which I admit I'm not sure I understand what they mean, at least it took a long time to get.

    The Ti Betas are all saying how stupid and delusional I'm being, by typing LSI.

    The Fi Deltas all... disagree. At least politely. They were the nicest about it. But they still disagreed.

    And I even alienated myself among my fellow Alpha.

    I'm not making a new thread to say anything profound. But I would like to at least say that I was not typing LSI deliberately, to be a troll, or anything like that.

    I don't know... I see a new idea, and consider it, measure it against what I know, and can very much see it to be true. It's hard to be consistent in my thinking. Just scanned the other thread, couldn't find the post, I guess they deleted it, so I can't give credit, but someone mentioned that they thought I was dual-seeking. They thought I was seeking an explanation.

    I'm wondering, perhaps this is why ESEs need LIIs? Basically, to be more consistent in their thinking, so they don't piss everyone off.

    Another random thought, perhaps this is common among Fe-leading types, who need Ti? I know, sorry to use Gilly as an example, but a lot of people consider him EIE, including me, and I know a lot of people get mad at him for making a lot of self-type threads, just like I do...

    Sooooooooooooooooooo.

    I guess... could I almost be appointed a trustee? Lol. Preferably someone with Ti-ego. Because what happened now is the same thing that happened, back when I thought I was ESTp, I changed to ESE because that's what everyone thought... then I started seeing LSE, and the rest of the story goes on, blah blah blah.

    So... I don't want to be annoying to everyone in the future... I myself am tired of my own self-type threads, and being confused. But I can't guarantee I won't think another type AGAIN, in the future, considering my past! So, I ask for someone, who would be kind enough, in the future at any point when I am considering another type, to please punch me in the head. That, or rationally remind me why I'm ESE.

    And... I know I didn't need to make another thread to explain to everyone why I'm changing back... (some people dare accuse me of liking attention! ) but it's quicker, it gets everything out in the open, and... it's just more fun too.

    Have a great day.

    MD

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    sigh

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    What are you doing?

    This activity is turning my stomach inside out. No wonder why I love Te; they determine the course of action and don't do something unless they are sure that's what they want then do it.

    So, you observed an external situation (Se) through your eyes (a sense perception) and now you've belly flopped over into another quadra (Se) more impulsive action.

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    I'm probably going to make this situation even worse, but LSE is still not unthinkable, to me. I've known some people who behave in ways similar to you, except they are female, and I typed them as LSE. You said you grew up with a bunch of sisters, or something like that (I forget where I read this), and might have learned things from them. So anyhow I personally still consider LSE to be a valid possibility. But like I said I could be confusing things even more. I haven't ever attempted to read over all your threads and get the long term perspective. Anyway I think the ESE-ishness about you is caused by things that are 'not type related.' But I'm too tired to explain anything in thorough detail as I'm about to go to sleep now. And I'm most likely not contributing anything useful except more confusion. I should probably just delete this post.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    So, you want to belong in that group? You want their acceptance.

    That makes you aristocratic:

    Inclined to perceive and define themselves, and others, through groups they belong to; however, such groups are perceived and defined by the Aristocrats themselves, not necessarily accepting those groupings as defined by others or by social conventions.

    Further proof that you can't be ESE because they are Democratic.

    Your emotional positivism lends a hand to you being an Emotivist not Constructivist, further voiding you as ESE.

  6. #6
    Creepy-Snaps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nico1e View Post
    I'm probably going to make this situation even worse, but LSE is still not unthinkable, to me. I've known some people who behave in ways similar to you, except they are female, and I typed them as LSE. You said you grew up with a bunch of sisters, or something like that (I forget where I read this), and might have learned things from them. So anyhow I personally still consider LSE to be a valid possibility. But like I said I could be confusing things even more. I haven't ever attempted to read over all your threads and get the long term perspective. Anyway I think the ESE-ishness about you is caused by things that are 'not type related.' But I'm too tired to explain anything in thorough detail as I'm about to go to sleep now. And I'm most likely not contributing anything useful except more confusion. I should probably just delete this post.
    Yes, thank you for this. That's the argument I've made in the past, when I considered I was naturally a thinking type.

    It's true, I grew up with 2 older sisters and my mom. My parents divorced when I was fairly young, and my dad has been in and out of my life. I lacked a strong male figure growing up, to show me how to be a man. In addition, I attended a private Christian school growing up, which drilled strong values into me.

    All that, I had argued before, made me come across ESE-ish. I do have stories growing up where I come across very logical, like a jerk, completely uncaring/unaware of the people element of things.

    So, yeah, thanks for making things worse. I can still see both ways somewhat. Could get into long tangents of what's natural, versus the environment, how it shapes personality. So I'm not completely sure, feels like I lack an identity. lol.

    But 'tis time for bed for me too.

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    Idk if its related, but sometimes Fe valuing gets misinterpreted as being aristocratic.

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    Start as many typeChange/whatsMyType threads as need be. There's no sense oppressing the need for new information. I don't know how many threads it takes to explode an internet, but I'm pretty sure we haven't gotten close.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Well, even if I don't think that the mass of people is necessarily right, I do believe it's better to abandon an almost indefensible argument rather than insisting on it. So I hope you can identify with this type, since many people believe this could be the right one for you. However, some other members will always have alternative theories about you in mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    I don't know how many threads it takes to explode an internet, but I'm pretty sure we haven't gotten close.
    We'd still have enough internets left, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Be yourself 1st and let the type fit you instead.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I sort of have a theory that mistyping yourself can actually induce serious psychological strain—which may sound weird, but I've seen it happen with some on here. When there's a severe disparity between the self-concept and the actual self, problems arise.
    I wouldn't be surprised if this was true, especially if the person takes Socionics very seriously.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Ok, so, do we need to open a sub-forum for Mt.Dew typings?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    i hate the word "mistyped." it implies that type is something more than an individuals perception of certain concepts and a certain person. like type is part of our biological makeup and we all have one the same way we have lungs and a stomach. we don't.

    mt. dew, lots of people on the forum - myself included - see you as having traits we associate with concepts like "ese" and "fe" and "ni polr." this does NOT mean you ARE an ese any more than you ARE a school bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I've wondered before if that's been a major driver in this—that you feel you lack an identity. Because I noticed you appear pretty uncertain/insecure of yourself in a lot of the pictures and videos you've posted (I'm not saying that to demean or anything, it's only an observation).

    So it's struck me before that you seemed to be trying to use Socionics as a way to give yourself an identity. And gravitated to typing yourself β-ST, because they're seen as being direct, no-nonsense, go-getter individuals—which you'd like to see yourself as being. But really, these are just stereotypes that have little to do with real flesh & blood people. It's not even worth trying to fit yourself into that.

    Be yourself 1st and let the type fit you instead. I sort of have a theory that mistyping yourself can actually induce serious psychological strain—which may sound weird, but I've seen it happen with some on here. When there's a severe disparity between the self-concept and the actual self, problems arise.

    Anyway, that's enough for now.
    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    i hate the word "mistyped." it implies that type is something more than an individuals perception of certain concepts and a certain person. like type is part of our biological makeup and we all have one the same way we have lungs and a stomach. we don't.

    mt. dew, lots of people on the forum - myself included - see you as having traits we associate with concepts like "ese" and "fe" and "ni polr." this does NOT mean you ARE an ese any more than you ARE a school bus.

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    Nah, he's ESE.

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    ugh, poli. and i want you to be a rabbit so you ARE a motherfucking rabbit.

    just so long as when you say that you know you're making a leap of faith and that it rests on nothing more than personal belief.

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  16. #16
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    !!!!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    just so long as when you say that you know you're making a leap of faith and that it rests on nothing more than personal belief.
    If it makes you feel better, I'll say no he's not ESE. Yet I'm just saying what I believe like I always do, even if the belief is not that important to me. I don't think he's a rabbit, because ESEs are just like every other human mostly, It's not like... SURPRISE you're an ESE! Freak! Most people wouldn't know the difference between an ESE and SEE if you told them about socionics at first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    !!!!
    Rabbit scream!!!

    That's all they can communicate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Be yourself 1st and let the type fit you instead. I sort of have a theory that mistyping yourself can actually induce serious psychological strain—which may sound weird, but I've seen it happen with some on here. When there's a severe disparity between the self-concept and the actual self, problems arise.

    Anyway, that's enough for now.
    Yeah, I really agree with that.

    I used to have a similar feeling when I was struggling to use the enneagram. I eventually gave up on the enneagram completely. But for a while I was trying on every enneagram type except Two and Eight, because those were the only ones that I was sure didn't fit me at all. (Being Fe-PoLR and also weak at Fi means that I could never be described as an emotionally demonstrative person like a 2; and being Se-ignoring means that I'll do anything I can to avoid acting strong and dominant and forceful like an 8, so those were obviously not me.)

    I was trying to use the enneagram for self-improvement. I was actually trying to look at those 'Levels of Development' in the back of the orange book by Riso and Hudson, the big thick book. I was looking at the chart, with the beliefs at each level, (I'm struggling to remember what was written on this chart but I can't remember), and trying to determine which level I was at, even though I wasn't sure which enneagram type I was, and while reading all the different types, I found that I agreed with all three of the 'withdrawn' types, and I also had stuff in common with 3 and 6, and even a few similarities to 7 and 1 and ... it just went on and on.

    Whenever I would try to use the information to help myself, it gave me that sense of strain and conflict between my self-image, and who I actually was, as Ashton said above.

    Anyway @Mountain Dew if you change your mind again and if someday you feel like you might be an LSE, I won't make fun of you if decide that's what you are and I won't say 'YOU'RE NOT WELCOME IN DELTA!!! GRRRRRR!' So to phrase that in a positive way, I'd say you're welcome in delta too. And hey you can also see if you feel like an ESE for now. I've actually been looking around for ESEs so that I can have at least one example of how they act, so that I can learn to recognize them more easily, because I often am mistyping people as ESE - in the forum, though not as often in real life.

    I went through a whole bunch of different types too. I started as INTP, INTJ, INFP, ISFP, and then ISTP. I cycled around through that list a couple times. It's really annoying when the 'type doubts' strike again, but it happened to me too. It's also embarrassing. I would always have to change what I had written on my blog and my Twitter account and all the other random pages where I had written down what type I was, and it's this unpleasant feeling of 'Oh no, I gotta make another type change announcement today. What are people going to say?' (Of course, it was usually ignored because nobody really pays much attention to it on my blog, but if I were announcing it here in the socionics forum it would have had a much bigger response.)

    So anyway, doh.

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    Here are a couple of helpful charts to help you decide what type you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arsal View Post




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    Things that seem most apparent to me:

    1. You are Extroverted (very little doubt about that one).

    2. You are most clearly not Gamma.

    3. Pragmatist seems highly likely, and might explain why you've self-typed three different ST types.

    Item #2 does seem to point most strongly towards Alpha, being Gamma's Opposition. Though #3 wants to contradict it.

    IF you are ESE, that could explain why I identified you as a fellow Ep at first, Ne being your HA. Though, LSE is not yet out of the running, either, based on this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    i hate the word "mistyped." it implies that type is something more than an individuals perception of certain concepts and a certain person. like type is part of our biological makeup and we all have one the same way we have lungs and a stomach. we don't.
    Type isn't our biological makeup. This is genetic determinism and I don't think anyone in their right mind will be so stupid to actually agree with that, although this is just me, and I can be wrong, I've bumped into people in real life who really lack grey mass between their ears.

    mt. dew, lots of people on the forum - myself included - see you as having traits we associate with concepts like "ese" and "fe" and "ni polr." this does NOT mean you ARE an ese any more than you ARE a school bus.
    Well yes, standing in a garage doesn't make one a car. Those associations are the basis of socionics I think, or at least people who use them think this way.

    All in all, not a bad post. Lots of concepts.

  23. #23
    ഗന᎕ᒹ ±ᗉᚔXᙂഗ woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poli View Post
    Most people wouldn't know the difference between an ESE and SEE if you told them about socionics at first.
    I would make a horrible ESE

    Mountain Dew, however, makes a great ESE

  24. #24
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    You realize how often people mistake Se for the tough/powerful/direct function, when in reality ExxJ temperament can also contribute to this?

    ExxJ's have a base function of Te or Fe which are linear-mobilize functions, they are very direct and energetic in quality, like a short burst or rocket burn. This is what gives the ExxJ temperament it's direct and focused energy.

    Je is Dynamics of Bodies, it is the function that considers the motion or movement of individual objects.

    Pe by contrast is the Statics of Bodies, it is the function that considers a snapshot or state of an individual object.

    Now consider the Je+Pi combo -- Dynamics of Bodies/Fields -- Harmonizing+Linear/Mobilizing
    vs
    Pe+Ji combo -- Statics of Bodies/Fields -- Creative+Normalizing

    One style of cognition is focused with the fluctations of relationships and how these influence individual objects
    One style of cognition is focused with the static relationships between things, the structure, and how these influence the state of individual objects

    The first sees the breeze and perceives how a leave would blow in it or sees the leaves and attempts to infer the flow of the breeze
    The second sees a chessboard with pieces laid out in a matrix and sees the role of a specific piece in that structure or they select a role for a piece based on the state of the board

    The adaptable nature of ExxP comes from this kind of role select admist a matrix, the creative leading function working with the normalizing creative function.

    Also as a disclaimer I wouldn't take my analogy too seriously, I'm not saying ExxP and IxxJ can't perceive a leave blowing in a breeze or something, I'm just trying to illustrate the concept of dynamicism.
    Last edited by male; 09-29-2011 at 01:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    You realize how often people mistake Se for the tough/powerful/direct function, when in reality ExxJ temperament can also contribute to this?

    ExxJ's have a base function of Te or Fe which are linear-mobilize functions, they are very direct and energetic in quality, like a short burst or rocket burn. This is what gives the ExxJ temperament it's direct and focused energy.

    Je is Dynamics of Bodies, it is the function that considers the motion or movement of individual objects.

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    Glad, you're back to ESE, which is your true typing Mountain Dew . You seem happier now that you've re-typed yourself correctly.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Ok, so, do we need to open a sub-forum for Mt.Dew typings?
    Moonlight will fall
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    Your heart will mend

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    hahaha

    +1
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    Allow me to give you a functional breakdown of your behavior.

    1.) Everything I've seen you post, the fact that your on this forum, and the way you interact with them is all harmonizing to the "main thing" in your posts being a stable emotional atmosphere with the socionics community. Not to mention the level of extravagance in what you post and how often you post it.

    2.) Your extroverted nature compels you to seek connections with those around you in a way that is in conformity to the prevailing ideas on this board(i.e trying to find your type, socionics etc.), so much so that it is clearly fucking with your inner state to the point where you're trying desperately to fix it All so that you may at long last be at peace with your type as well as those around you.
    serving

    3.) You tried in your previous thread to assert LSI, you gave logical reasons for doing so and in a way that appeared to you as efficient and sound. People disagreed, as did you to their disagreement, but in the end you broke down because the conversation was getting heavy which is so role it hurts. Not to mention the fact of you wanting to be someone logical suggests a suppressed thinking function

    4.) "Dont worry guys! Today I'm a LSI and that wont change!"

    [The next day]
    "Dont worry guys i'm a ESE and that s not going to change!"

    PoLR

    5.) the fact that you chose LSI (a dom) and express how logical you are and want to be suggests a dual seeking function of ! This is obvious and there is no need to dwell on this any further

    6.) You only took advice from people who agreed with your analysis, i.e you only saw potential in what you were doing at the time. You also seem to have no idea what your talents are which, in my opinion is something you desperately need, who better than someone with in the ego?

    7.) Haven't seen the ignoring but I'm sure it's around here somewhere.

    8.) wittisims and confrontational behavior in a joking manner (used in a way to refure those who were confrontational) suggests a demo.


    In conclusion: You're a fucking ESE, go to bed, I hate you

    /thread
    "We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.".

  30. #30
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    Well aren't you just the little charmer
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    See? What did I tell you; he's successfully trolled all of us that replied in his previous thread.
    언제나.

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    He is really ILI now and that won't change.

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