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Thread: When the parents are a dual couple…

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    Default When the parents are a dual couple…

    …what intertype relationships with their biological kids is it most common for the parents to have?

    Here is what I know from my experience. In my experience I have seen families where the parents who are duals of each other are the benefactor/supervisor of a child, their kindred/semi-dual, their activator/mirror or their mirage/business. (I know other intertype relationships exist when the parents are NOT each other’s dual.)

    So my question specifically is: Given the dual parents condition, do other kinds of type relationships with kids exist? Curious if one can find conflict in a family that started with duals. Or duality. Curious about those really LARGE families.

    More specifics on my observations:
    I know of families having TWO kids where the kids are kindred to each other, one kid is the supervisee/benefactee of the parents and the other kid is the activator/mirror of the parents. Birth order doesn’t seem to matter as to which type comes first.

    Also I have seen two kids being each other’s mirror, and the parents being the mirage/business and supervisor/benefactor of the kids.

    Also have seen families with just one child, where the child was the kindred/semi-dual.

    Also I know of a family with two kids where all I know is that one child has a kindred/semi-dual relationship with the parents, and I don’t know the other child’s type, so I am curious what that type may be.

    And maybe this should be a poll.

    AND ... as an aside to an already long post, I noticed something in Wikipedia about a Russian study of what precisely it IS that determine’s a child’s type but I don’t have access to the study (and would have to have it translated somehow). If you’re curious, here is the mention: “Recent research conducted by Elena Olkova (www.4kvadra.ru) together with Elena Udalova proves that sociotypes aren't genetically determined but rather form as the result of mother's biggest concerns (which form the vulnerable function of a child) during the pregnancy. During the research, 100 pairs of monozygotic twins were tested and clearly showed different sociotypes (i.e. there were no twins with identical sociotypes found).[citation needed]” What is the expression -- studies, damn lies and statistics?
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    Well um that's the thing.

    I don't think type is genetic.

    I think type is a result of intense psycho-social emotional abuse that we endured during childhood.

    I apologize if you think I'm looking at the lens too darkly.

    But why else would we distinguish ourselves from others so much? The reason humans don't like each other is, 9 times out of 10 - is an incredibly silly and pointless reason not to like somebody. And beyond that veil, we'd realize that we could be more romantic and loving with so many more people than we ever thought possible.

    The individual ego you are born with, and the social phobia and social abuse of others are what develops into your type. So your type and your parents type just aren't related. It's just complete chance if say, your mother is your dual or benefactor or whatever other combination.

    Type is developed from a unique personality trait that you have, which is genetic- but not directly related to your type, but your type develops from that uniqueness, a uniqueness that is not socially accepted. Hence the categories, the distinguishable and the distinctions. And so you romanticize certain others 'Yay, they accept me for me!' and demonize certain others 'They won't accept me. They are mean. GRR.'

    But it could be something you got from a great great great grandparent, not your parents. And so there's gonna be tons of type combinations that parents have with their kids. The natural world and the ego thrives on differences , diversity and uniqueness. And so everything has to be true, and everything has to be bizarre, to boot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I don't think type is genetic.
    .

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    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I don't think type is genetic.
    I don't think the OP implied it was. She also acknowledged it was a combination of several environmental factors, and was curious what kind of sociotypes in children were created, depending on a dual-parents environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    The individual ego you are born with, and the social phobia and social abuse of others are what develops into your type. So your type and your parents type just aren't related. It's just complete chance if say, your mother is your dual or benefactor or whatever other combination.
    I'm not sure I understand your saying type is a result of "social phobia and social abuse of others", then say it doesn't matter how your parents raise you. Isn't the way you are raised, part of the environment you refer to?

    The way I understand the OP's question:

    If a=inborn genetic factor contributing to type.
    b= environmental factor contributing to type.

    If a*b=sociotype.

    And b=duality parents. THEN, considering the different genetic predispositions, "a", what resulting sociotypes in RELATION to the parents most often result?

    Can OP clarify that as the question? Acknowledging that both genetics and environment play a part, but focusing on how the environment of dual parents affects children's types.

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    Well in our family, the parents are duals.
    Dad had: Supervisor, activator, semi-dual, super-ego.
    Mom had: Benefactor, mirror, kindred, contrast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Parents are duals more likely than not.

    Relations with mom: supervisor, contrary (?), conflictor.
    Relations with dad: benefactor, super-ego (?), quasi-identical.

    The (?) indicates uncertain typing.

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    I know a dual couple with two children that are duals lolol
    Dad: supervision, benefit
    Mom: benefit, supervision
    Gamma rationals, beta irrationals

    Anyways I don't think type is environment related, I think it's predetermined, and the type of your parents has nothing to do with the type you end up as.

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    I only know "well" one dual couple (ENTj female - ISFj male) with children past 15 years of age (hard for me to type anything below), and the children are also duals, lol.
    Another one which I don't know too well (ENFj female - ISTj male) has a child which is the dual of the mother and father's identical, and another one which is the mother's supervisor and father's benefactor.
    Oh yeah wait, my grandparents were duals too (ESTj male - INFj female) and they had two ISFj children.

    The first and second homes seem to be balanced and everyone pretty much gets along. The third one not so much, as far as I know the ESTj was way too imposing towards his children.
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    identical or duality to their kids

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    identical or duality to their kids
    So if duals are more likely to get married and they necessarily produce dual children, eventually humanity will converge towards families only formed by a long string of dual couples. Does it happen for real in your world?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    My parents are ESE/LII, I'm IEI, and my sister is (I think) SEI.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meals View Post
    …what intertype relationships with their biological kids is it most common for the parents to have?

    Here is what I know from my experience. In my experience I have seen families where the parents who are duals of each other are the benefactor/supervisor of a child, their kindred/semi-dual, their activator/mirror or their mirage/business. (I know other intertype relationships exist when the parents are NOT each other’s dual.)

    So my question specifically is: Given the dual parents condition, do other kinds of type relationships with kids exist? Curious if one can find conflict in a family that started with duals. Or duality. Curious about those really LARGE families.

    More specifics on my observations:
    I know of families having TWO kids where the kids are kindred to each other, one kid is the supervisee/benefactee of the parents and the other kid is the activator/mirror of the parents. Birth order doesn’t seem to matter as to which type comes first.

    Also I have seen two kids being each other’s mirror, and the parents being the mirage/business and supervisor/benefactor of the kids.

    Also have seen families with just one child, where the child was the kindred/semi-dual.

    Also I know of a family with two kids where all I know is that one child has a kindred/semi-dual relationship with the parents, and I don’t know the other child’s type, so I am curious what that type may be.

    And maybe this should be a poll.

    AND ... as an aside to an already long post, I noticed something in Wikipedia about a Russian study of what precisely it IS that determine’s a child’s type but I don’t have access to the study (and would have to have it translated somehow). If you’re curious, here is the mention: “Recent research conducted by Elena Olkova (www.4kvadra.ru) together with Elena Udalova proves that sociotypes aren't genetically determined but rather form as the result of mother's biggest concerns (which form the vulnerable function of a child) during the pregnancy. During the research, 100 pairs of monozygotic twins were tested and clearly showed different sociotypes (i.e. there were no twins with identical sociotypes found).[citation needed]” What is the expression -- studies, damn lies and statistics?
    my parents are duals, EII and LSE. i am their supervisee/beneficiary. i have a brother who is kindred to me, hence their mirror/activator. i have another brother who is mirror to me, their lookalike and illusionary, supervising the other brother. i am the odd man out in this paradigm.

    your other quotation about the mothers concerns i also found interesting a while back. i started a thread about it called yours and your mother's concerns. i think the conclusion at that time was that this idea was bullshit. i did some minor internet research on it and it did seem to just be somebody's idea, not really well grounded in any type of systematic research.

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    Thank you for the many good replies! I hope people will feel free to add to the thread as they come across more data or come up with theories.

    To clarify my OP, I was just asking if, given the parents types, we had any statistics on the children's types, without looking into reasons at all really. Just wanted to see if any kind of pattern could be picked up. That's my Te perspective, perhaps.
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    My mom, INFj, had all but Alpha. (ISTj, ENFj, ESFp, ESTj).

    I do not believe neuroscience is advanced enough yet to configure how the brain and body relate, but there are some correlations. Who knows how they arrive as a final product. One's fate even changes between conception and birth. Even every time a surge of sex hormones, which are relatively simple compared to other bodily chemicals, surges during the Terrible 2's and puberty, the brain pattern changes. Time may or may not tell regarding either socionics or enneagran regarding what does what.

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    The one thing I have noticed, as a generalized pattern, is that the body is aligned with the brain in its goal, which is obviously to survive. In socionics, it seems to be survival based on group-being. In enneagram, it seems to be survival based on self-being.

    As an ENFj-Fe, 7w6 sp/sx, I am essentially highly autonymous, self-reliant, yet networked, weather vane. Every combination is interesting, with some being more common than others.

    However, where DNA leaves and where life's path begins is not possible to answer with our current knowledge or concepts of what it is to be a person, biological or otherwise.

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    My wife and I are duals (INTj+ESFj) with three children. I have a seven year old daughter who I think is INFj, a six year old son who is undoubtedly ESFj and a two year old daughter that I'm still trying to figure out. My best guess at this point is that the two year old is ISFp.

    They were all born with distinctively different temperments. I think sociotype is something you are born with, not something that develops through childhood or becasue of childhood experiences. Varying childhood and adulthood experiences are probably what make each person within each sociotype different.

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    My grandparents were SEI/ILE, and they had 8 kids of all sorts of types and relationships to them. My mom is LIE, there are a couple of SLIs, a couple of alpha NTs, a Beta ST, an ESE, not sure of the other one.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    OH and my husband and I are duals - IEE/SLI. Our older child is ILE, not sure of little one at this point because she's pretty little.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meals View Post
    Thank you for the many good replies! I hope people will feel free to add to the thread as they come across more data or come up with theories.

    To clarify my OP, I was just asking if, given the parents types, we had any statistics on the children's types, without looking into reasons at all really. Just wanted to see if any kind of pattern could be picked up. That's my Te perspective, perhaps.
    I hate to reply to this three times in a row, but is this really a Te perspective here? It feels to me like looking for logic where there is none, and these threads always bug me. I don't mean to offend you or even question your type (don't know you well enough to even have an opinion), I'm just questioning whether this specifically has anything to do with Te.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    I hate to reply to this three times in a row, but is this really a Te perspective here? It feels to me like looking for logic where there is none, and these threads always bug me. I don't mean to offend you or even question your type (don't know you well enough to even have an opinion), I'm just questioning whether this specifically has anything to do with Te.
    I probably don't have a good enough handle on what Te is to answer this. I thought that it involved starting with details (facts) and then trying to figure out what the big picture may be from that, but I am likely wrong and oversimplifying. In any event, indeed there may be no logic here, but I think looking for it is a worthwhile activity for whatever reason. In the event this is in fact Ti, maybe I am doing some sort of PoLR hit. In which case, oops. But also likely wrong about that as well, ha ha.
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