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Thread: Freud & socionic block question

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    Default Freud & socionic block question

    Hey,
    I just want to know if id, ego and superego have the same "function" in socionic than whats explained here :
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego

    or this is totally different concept ?
    "The final delusion is the belief that one has lost all delusion."

    -- Maurice Chapelain

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    Hello...? somavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    Hey,
    I just want to know if id, ego and superego have the same "function" in socionic than whats explained here :
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego

    or this is totally different concept ?
    it's different.
    IEE-Ne

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    Quote Originally Posted by somavision View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    Hey,
    I just want to know if id, ego and superego have the same "function" in socionic than whats explained here :
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego

    or this is totally different concept ?
    it's different.
    Yup, it completely different. Jung expanded on it, trying to make it slim, but he only made it bigger.

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    whooaa, sad, it shall have been opened a ton of perspective
    "The final delusion is the belief that one has lost all delusion."

    -- Maurice Chapelain

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    Quote Originally Posted by somavision View Post

    it's different.
    what is different, and why are they called the same?

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    Hello...? somavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by somavision View Post

    it's different.
    what is different, and why are they called the same?
    Hmmm ok... there are similarities, and I believe that this why they share common names. And superficially the descriptions of these as 'social' etc.
    reflect the psychoanalytic view of the psyche. And also the blocks of different parts of the psyche acting in opposition and exisitng primarily in either the conscious or subconscious mind, are the same for both.

    * Ego or information level – “I know"
    * Superego or social level - “I must"
    * Super-id or psychological level - “I want"
    * Id or physical level - “I can"

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...ocionics_Model

    However...
    * the soconics model (as far as I can tell) does not depend on a parental figure for development of the super-ego
    * I belive the super-ego and the ego are both primarily rational in the psychonalytic sense.
    *The id in the structural model covers all basic physical drives and desires.
    This is not compatable with the socionic model.
    * a few other things that can be edited later.
    *The super-ego is related

    I read an example of how ego, id and super-id potrentially interacted in a behaviorist study.... I think it went along the lines of this.
    Participants were shown that when given the opportunity to cheat in an test with a financial reward based upon the outcome and where there was not possibility of being caught, that there was a strong tendancy for the majority of participants to inflate their score, however only by a relatively small amount. An explanation for this behaviour was that the id wanted to cheat, the super-ego wanted to be perceived and see it's self as an upstanding citizen. The ego allows the individual to cheat to an extent that it provides greater reward, but not so much that it triggered an intervention from the super-ego.

    I do think that there is a corralation between the ego-ideal of structural model and the value that we place on the socionics superego functions.

    I'll try to write a bit more later.... when I have time and can check some bits, however to summarise my gut instinct,

    My view is that the two models roughly correspond and exist side by side. There is a crossover and theories could be integrated to some extent, which would explain the cchoice of name for the socionic model. However there are differences, the structural model describes things that go far beyond what is covered by socionics and socionics describes things not conceived of and in freuds model.
    For me it is perhaps worth thinking of them as two different systems that exist apart yet operate using a similar model of dynamic psychic energy and conflict between different aspect of the psyche of differing strenghts and exisitng and existing in different levels of consciousness.
    Last edited by somavision; 09-16-2011 at 03:46 PM.
    IEE-Ne

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    what is different, and why are they called the same?
    It is just an analogy.
    Shock intuition, diamond logic.
     

    The16types.info Scientific Model

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ineffable View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    what is different, and why are they called the same?
    It is just an analogy.
    omg, you're making sense

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    I think it would have been better if augusta did not use freuds id ego and superego into her model A.

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