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Thread: How does Super-Ego maturation occur?

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    Default How does Super-Ego maturation occur?

    If someone wanted to mature their own super ego, what advice would you give them? What are catalysts for the process? Danke.
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    I don't buy it that you can mature your superego.

    It's like you assume you can heal every personality disorder by just developing something, it just doesn't work like that. Your functions don't change or nearly don't change, and if they change it's in a period of about 25+ years.

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    Umm. Have them be challenged to use their PoLR (if they really want to.) Have them hang out more with people of those types. Neighbor types, like ILI and SLI, and know what they're looking for. I think if you go one function at a time, not two big steps, and give them plenty of breaks between using their PoLR, then there might be some kind of exercise you can do to mature it. The functions should be matured in terms of the dominant function. You wouldn't just build up each function by itself unless your goal is to become very uncomfortable: it would be like starving yourself. So back and forth between dominant and role function until you get good at the conscious mental aspect of it, then try going back and forth between the dominant and PoLR.
    Last edited by 717495; 09-13-2011 at 10:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aidu Gara View Post
    Umm. Have them be challenged to use their PoLR (if they really want to.) Have them hang out more with people of those types. Neighbor types: I think if you go one function at a time, not two big steps, and give them plenty of breaks between using their PoLR, then there might be some kind of exercise you can do to mature it. The functions should be matured in terms of the dominant function. You wouldn't just build up each function by itself unless your goal is to become very uncomfortable: it would be like starving yourself.
    Its great that you share with us your fantasy world.

    Now what have you seen in real life how people mature their superego, what have you read about it, have you tested it yourself if it works?

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    Well that's what I would do, as they seem like good starting steps. Based on the Socionics information I've read, the PoLR is not naturally valued but it's not the weakest function, so it's good to take it slowly and not keep your expectations high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aidu Gara View Post
    Well that's what I would do, as they seem like good starting steps.
    so basically you are doing just something without knowing what you do.

    Maybe the effect is that you immature your superego with this. You don't know.

    That's why I call this fantasy, it's just made up, based on nothing, and highly dangerous.

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    You learn some basic decency related to your PoLR (it could be said that you learn how to deal with the downsides of your creative function), while as far as your role goes...well you use it randomly as much as you wish, and if a group of people requires a stronger usage in order for you to fit in, you try to disengage from such situation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aidu Gara View Post
    Umm. Have them be challenged to use their PoLR (if they really want to.) Have them hang out more with people of those types. Neighbor types, like ILI and SLI, and know what they're looking for. I think if you go one function at a time, not two big steps, and give them plenty of breaks between using their PoLR, then there might be some kind of exercise you can do to mature it. The functions should be matured in terms of the dominant function. You wouldn't just build up each function by itself unless your goal is to become very uncomfortable: it would be like starving yourself. So back and forth between dominant and role function until you get good at the conscious mental aspect of it, then try going back and forth between the dominant and PoLR.
    Sounds like a great way to ensure a complete mental breakdown.

    No, OP, do not do what the quote above suggests. Be extremely wary of forcing yourself to hang around people who require you to engage your super-ego functions. Your super-ego is not a skill-set that needs to be honed, it's an inferiority complex formed as a direct consequence of preferring your ego functions. You cannot overcome it, that would be a contradiction. You cannot be both north and south at the same time.

    It may be possible to gain better mental composure in stressful situations or to channel it through your super-id functions. Or maybe even mature super-ego functions, but this is not the correct procedure.

    I don't have any positive experience with regards to this. I went through a phase where I purposely put myself in situations where I was required to engage my super-ego, in hopes of learning it through trial and error. It did not help, rather it made me regress into my room further and cut off communication from the outside world because the stress levels got too high and for a few months I contemplated suicide every time I woke up in the morning.

    Of course, my condition might have been slightly more volatile than many other individuals, but hacking my way through did not help me, and has not helped others I know. Beware.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    That's why I call this fantasy, it's just made up, based on nothing, and highly dangerous.
    What's the danger? There is no harm in trying to use your PoLR, you just recover from the situation. No need to be a pansy about it: if someone really wants to experience, then take some ideas and try them out for yourself.

    I wouldn't say I'm too fond of this way, but it is the way nonetheless, one I have tried and have not had luck to persist, but also has not been a big fallback more than it already was. I think you and FDG have a good point that maturing is probably more along the lines of accepting your strengths and weaknesses, and really developing your ego helps mature the rest of the functions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    Be extremely wary of forcing yourself to hang around people who require you to engage your super-ego functions.
    Be wary around your conflictor and supervisor, I think you're stating the obvious. However neighbor relations like ILI-SLI, ILI-IEI or superego ILI-SEI are not that bad. You can learn a thing or two from them.

    Perhaps the best side to look at is the fact that you can accomplish what you set your mind to, you can figure out a way using your ego to accomplish tasks that other types are better at, and they can help you out in ways that will mold your understanding. This doesn't mean you should ignore Socionics as a general rule, I think that's the most obvious consensus on this forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aidu Gara
    However neighbor relations like ILI-SLI, ILI-IEI or superego ILI-SEI are not that bad. You can learn a thing or two from them.
    Uh, superego relationships can turn sour very, very quickly, and become a strain for both parties. Unless one of them is generally more passive than the other, then the passive party gets to handle all the stress.

    Of course, it is best for OP to experience it first-hand and form their own opinions, I'm simply providing the obligatory alternate proposition so the he/she can see both sides of the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aidu Gara
    Perhaps the best side to look at is the fact that you can accomplish what you set your mind to, you can figure out a way using your ego to accomplish tasks that other types are better at, and they can help you out in ways that will mold your understanding. This doesn't mean you should ignore Socionics as a general rule, I think that's the most obvious common knowledge on this forum.
    Indeed, I agree.

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    I think there needs to be distinction made between putting yourself in situations that emphasis the "super ego" and using those IM elements. If you're curious about exploring different aspects of your own mind (and I believe we really do have it all in us; the whole socion is inside), then do it yourself in a free, non-pressure environment.

    I'll give an analogy...I'm not saying this ties in to any specific IM element; take it just as a analogy. If I were to put myself into a situation where one has to focus on physical fitness all the time and were surrounded by military athletic types, that would probably be stressful for me.

    But if I do exercises in a stress-free environment by myself, I can even picture my own version of athleticism and find it enjoyable, as there wouldn't be anyone around me to make me self conscious of the fact that I'm less physically fit than somebody else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    If someone wanted to mature their own super ego, what advice would you give them? What are catalysts for the process? Danke.
    Just my view on this:

    I think it has to start with the ego. You have to have an activity where you can fully be yourself and use your strengths. Something that you love. Then from there you might be able to expand to the super-ego. But it's not technical like "now I jump to the role function". It's all integrated with the thing you do and how you think and relate to it. And it will mature together with that activity. It can probably take years for the developement to happen.

    I'll try an example. I know an SEI who is very honest about who he is and what he believes in. He is not productive unless he loves what he's doing, so he doesn't really have a real job or a career. Some years ago he started designing a special green house for growing plants at home. He is very personal and idealistic about it and hopes that this will help people coming more in contact with life and nature. After designing the product he has slowly started marketing it, and now he's working full time with his project meeting possible manufacturers and trying to get someone to mass-produce the green house. It requires a lot of planning and sense of direction, descision-making. He talked to me about it, how this is new for him, but that it's something he just has to do, because he believes in the product. It's not about money (There is hardly any money in it). I was surprised he is doing this because he seems like this sensitive artist who never whould go into things like that. If it is possible to use a Freudian word like sublimation then I would say that he has it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    Sounds like a great way to ensure a complete mental breakdown.

    No, OP, do not do what the quote above suggests. Be extremely wary of forcing yourself to hang around people who require you to engage your super-ego functions. Your super-ego is not a skill-set that needs to be honed, it's an inferiority complex formed as a direct consequence of preferring your ego functions. You cannot overcome it, that would be a contradiction. You cannot be both north and south at the same time.

    It may be possible to gain better mental composure in stressful situations or to channel it through your super-id functions. Or maybe even mature super-ego functions, but this is not the correct procedure.

    I don't have any positive experience with regards to this. I went through a phase where I purposely put myself in situations where I was required to engage my super-ego, in hopes of learning it through trial and error. It did not help, rather it made me regress into my room further and cut off communication from the outside world because the stress levels got too high and for a few months I contemplated suicide every time I woke up in the morning.

    Of course, my condition might have been slightly more volatile than many other individuals, but hacking my way through did not help me, and has not helped others I know. Beware.
    Ah finally someone that makes sense and uses real life experience instead of dangerous fantasy. It also seems you've read Jung, yep you can't have strong ego and strong superego functions, unless you have 2 brains.

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    if you read some of these responses outside the context of socionics you get, "omg dont do anything that makes you uncomfortable, thats dangerous! mental breakdowns!" if something makes sense with socionics it should also make sense in reality, and the reality is people do things outside their comfort zone all the time and it generally isn't a horrible idea.

    what is it about Fe and Si that you feel you should work on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    if you read some of these responses outside the context of socionics you get, "omg dont do anything that makes you uncomfortable, thats dangerous! mental breakdowns!" if something makes sense with socionics it should also make sense in reality, and the reality is people do things outside their comfort zone all the time and it generally isn't a horrible idea.


    Hmmm.

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    instead of listening and responding to what i say about types right now you'd rather point out something i felt like putting under my username some time ago. i don't see how that's helpful, but ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Ah finally someone that makes sense and uses real life experience instead of dangerous fantasy. It also seems you've read Jung, yep you can't have strong ego and strong superego functions, unless you have 2 brains.
    I think people here are pretty well aware of the basic theory of ego = and super ego = .

    But going beyond the basics, it seems quite plausible that people may experience their super ego functions and have a reason for doing so at certain moments. That's not the same as being "strong" in both though. Although there may be things you can't do at the same time (like getting stuff done and relaxing, or riding a bicycle and eating lobster), you can do them at different times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    if you read some of these responses outside the context of socionics you get, "omg dont do anything that makes you uncomfortable, thats dangerous! mental breakdowns!"
    Lots of things make people uncomfortable for non-socionics reason (and it may be good for them to overcome such feeling), so no, you can't easily apply those responses to non-socionics situations.
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    It's never hurt me to wave to neighbors or pick up my room. I don't know what all the fuss is about in this thread.

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    this is why i asked her what it is about Fe and Si she thinks she should work on. if its something like, "socializing more and sleeping better," this is something that anyone could work on to their own benefit.

    but some would rather talk about concepts like "embrace your ego" than actually talk about anything that actually matters or applies to anybody's real life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    instead of listening and responding to what i say about types right now you'd rather point out something i felt like putting under my username some time ago. i don't see how that's helpful, but ok.
    I like irony.

    I'm not saying this as someone who follows the Socionics model because I don't believe any theoretical model can entire encapsulate all of the quirks of human nature, I've only adapted to the terms because it's convenient. I am calling you out on the assertion that you can become anything you want if you force yourself enough. You cannot, you cannot spontaneously change who you are overnight, nor can you change weaknesses inherent to your sense of self that took your entire life up to this point to develop.

    You may be able to overcome them in some way, I don't know, but not by putting yourself in difficult situations where you commonly feel vulnerable, unstable, open to ridicule, ignorant, etc. At least from what I understand and have experienced, this is not a very healthy method of achieving the intended goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    this is why i asked her what it is about Fe and Si she thinks she should work on. if its something like, "socializing more and sleeping better," this is something that anyone could work on to their own benefit.
    Then you should have framed it in those terms, this has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    if you read some of these responses outside the context of socionics you get, "omg dont do anything that makes you uncomfortable, thats dangerous! mental breakdowns!" if something makes sense with socionics it should also make sense in reality, and the reality is people do things outside their comfort zone all the time and it generally isn't a horrible idea.
    the problem is if you throw away the idea that there's a valued and unvalued sort of information, you have just thrown socionics and its relations out of the window. which might be a good idea in itself, but that's another story. it's an integral part of socionics that dealing with or focusing on unvalued information, especially exceedingly, is bad for your mental well-being. otherwise you wouldn't have varying levels of psychological comfort in different relations. on top of that, it smells of the "let's improve X function" mbtiesque stuff, which reduces the personality theory to skills/abilities/social adaptation and pissing contests. so i can understand negative reactions to it much better than apparent "solutions" presented, including surrounding yourself with people who will put pressure on your weak and unvalued functions.

    btw technically dualization/super-id stuff is supposed to be about "going out of your comfort zone". super-ego is on the other hand contradictory to your ego so impersonating it is essentially going against who you are. which may or may not be a good idea, just as socionics may or may not make sense.

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    if somebody asks how to improve their sleeping habits, this is a question that can be reasonably responded to.

    if somebody asks how to shift their cognitive viewpoint to accomodate more Si, this is an abstract and imaginary question that can only have an abstract and imaginary answer.

    this is a socionics forum where people gather to discuss abstract and imaginary things. i understand that. but i was trying to actually be helpful, if possible.

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    I guess the issue is really what is meant by developing one's super ego. The OP said "mature their own super ego" but it's not really clear what that means. Where I'm coming from is that I believe one can, within the safe environment of one's imagination, do a thought experiment to simulate different ways of seeing the world for a short amount of time...just as an actor might study a role and learn everything about that character, and "become" that character on stage or on camera.....then goes back to being his/her normal self after the performance is over. It's not the same as shifting one's fundamental outlook; it's only a temporary thing. I don't see why people would think that's so impossible just because there's a theory that says that we're all in these little boxes called types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    I guess the issue is really what is meant by developing one's super ego. The OP said "mature their own super ego" but it's not really clear what that means. Where I'm coming from is that I believe one can, within the safe environment of one's imagination, do a thought experiment to simulate different ways of seeing the world for a short amount of time...just as an actor might study a role and learn everything about that character, and "become" that character on stage or on camera.....then goes back to being his/her normal self after the performance is over. It's not the same as shifting one's fundamental outlook; it's only a temporary thing. I don't see why people would think that's so impossible just because there's a theory that says that we're all in these little boxes called types.
    This, I believe.

    Jung also said, it is possible although with a lot of energy and a short moment of time, to see/use other functions.

    But whether you can train it, mature it, is very unlikely. As Jung also said, the only reason the Ego functions are strong is because they have pushed away the superego functions.

    So even when you can mature your superego, you need to push away your ego and thus make yourself weaker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    If someone wanted to mature their own super ego, what advice would you give them? What are catalysts for the process? Danke.
    What does "mature your superego" mean? And why would you want to do it?

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    Experience points. Just engage the function. It will suck, because you haven't been using it(Preferring to use something else). But it's just like learning something new. Put in time and practice, and you'll improve. Just like riding a bicycle.

    As you get older, you develop the functions outside of your Ego. And this has to do with time spent using them. Im an Infp, but i know for damn sure that my Ti is stronger than most people i meet. This is because i engaged it extensively.

    It takes ten years to master any given thing, or 10,000 attempts(2 different quotes). Just apply yourself. Read about Si and Fe. Internalize it, and keep it as a conscious thought.


    People might say its impossible to work on it. But those people don't know what they're talking about. Every feeling type uses thinking functions and viceversa. The more time you spend applying yourself, the better those functions will become.

    Now, you may very well change your perspective, and move away from Ni and Te through this process. But this is what you want. People should view themselves internally as nobodies, because if you put yourself in a box. That's your state of mind, and that is who you become.

    Just remember, you can't improve your Si or your Fe through your Ni and Te, you have to step outside of your comfort zone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi cupcakes
    If someone...
    So is this someone you or someone else? And does this someone want to develop his or her superego function or not?
    She is wise
    beyond words
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    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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