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    Default Philosophy of Types (Gulenko)

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    6. Philosophy types

    The problem of incentives is closely related to the existential motifs - a deeper and more abstract category, which I as a representative of intuitive thinking would like to address in the conclusion of the article. Each has its own existence sociotype - are philosophically generalized idea of ​​what motivates people and the world. This view stems from how the type addressed the issue of primacy of the material and ideal.
    Those sotsiotipy, whose motivation is primarily material nature, I will provisionally be called materialists. This category will include all types of touch. Opposite his group types, deep motivation which is predominantly an ideal character, will call idealists. It is, accordingly, all types of intuition.

    As we know from philosophy, in idealism are two trends - an objective idealism, recognizing in one form or another the idea of ​​God - the external material in excess of authority, control the world and the subjective idealism, believing that the world generates the beginning - this is our idea of ​​it.

    According to Jung, an objective-oriented types - this is extroverted and subjectively oriented - introverts. Therefore the objective idealism - the philosophy of intuitive extroverts, and subjective idealism - the intuitive introverts.

    Attention! We should not forget that we are talking about tipalnyh motivations, not about specific people - representatives of various sociotypes that can follow any philosophy.
    Similarly we proceed with the "materialists" - sensory types: select, in accordance with the sign of extroversion, the objective of the materialists, which will touch extroverts, and in accordance with the sign of introversion, subjective materialists, which will touch introverts. Let us not confuse this with a few free treatment schools of thought: I'm doing this for the sole purpose - to bring the system into our existing observing behavior at the level of motivation 16.

    And now the philosophy of each type.
    1. Objective idealists.

    - Nastivnik (ET, EIE): the world is ruled god, destiny, providence. This is the most mystical or religious minded sociotype, often being in the form of-date, sincerely believes in his messianism, in that he is a preacher of the divine, cosmic or other supernatural forces.

    - Inventor (IL, ILE): universe ruled by the world's mind. This sociotype more than any other faith in the knowability of the most complex phenomena in a reasonable unit of the objective world, it is explainable in terms of precise laws of logic ("God does not play dice" - Einstein).

    - Psychologist (IR, IEA) world is ruled by a sense which is stronger than man, is the altruistic type of person who can help people, not even asking for thanks. This explains its strong tendency to empathy.

    - Entrepreneur (PT, LIE): Creator of all - wildlife. This sociotype animates nature, thus becoming a dualist, that is, it is equally recognized the ideal and the real beginning, which are connected to a natural disaster.
    2. Subjective idealists.

    - Analyst (LI, LII): the world is ruled idea («Cogito ergo sum» - Descartes). If people understand what the system is controlled by the laws of society, it is possible to arrange true. The most constructive sociotype who believes that any phenomenon is defined universal primary elements (archetypes eidoses, a priori categories) and relationships between them.

    - Critic (TP, OR): the world is governed case. Objective laws there is little, everything is relative and is determined by probability. Most inclined to agnosticism type of intelligence ("I only know that I know nothing" - Socrates). Knowledge is possible only with the full clarity and inner peace that is achieved through meditation.

    - Lyric (TE, IEI): the world is ruled mood state. The most volatile type of mentality, severely dependent on their internal attitude. Because of this, it is relatively easy to convince on any issue, to be quite persistent. But he just as easily and refuses to imposed beliefs.

    - Mediator (RI, EII): the world is ruled kindness. The most compassionate type of person, even if his feelings and not translated into deeds. Ideal notions of right and justice if they are all guided in their daily lives, will lead to the humane society. However, they should go from the soul of man himself, rather than be imposed from outside.
    3. Objective materialists.

    - Marshall (FL, SLE): the world is ruled strength, power. The most resolute of all sociotypes. In the fight comes only when the preponderance of forces will provide yourself, or find an unsecure location of the enemy. The objective reality given us in sensation - that's why you can trust, and the rest - an illusion.

    - Politics (FR, SEE): the world is ruled glory, fame, and communications. The most cautious of all sociotypes, since all studies on mistakes. Progressing to the touch, trusting only his own feelings. Words, concepts, and ideas - is just a tool to influence people.

    - Enthusiast (ES, ESE): the world is ruled rush burning desire. The most emotional type of person who can influence the mood of others. It can be credited to the idealists, because he is well capable of doing only what he likes. However, his usual dependence on the energy status of others - quite material.

    - Administrator (PS, FEL): the world is governed labor deal. The most materialistic thinking type of mentality, based in their arguments only on facts and proven patterns. Depends entirely on the labor process, subjecting him your plans. Rejects any far-fetched theories and schemes, if they are not presented as a mature technology.
    4. Subjective materialists.

    - The Inspector (LF, LSI): the world is governed order and discipline. The most depends on the organization of a specific space sociotype entirely subordinate institutions of the. Any major alternative is rejected as a departure from the waste structure for it is tantamount to losing a foothold, uncontrollable chaos.

    - The Guardian (RF, ESI): the world is governed morality, moral duty. This type of mentality, more than any other, depends on its internal moral attitudes. A person may behave toward others as they deserve. The existing system of relations and moral values ​​protected against any attacks from outside. Even objectively broke passion can be brought under control at will.

    - Broker (SE, SEI): the world is ruled fun. This only makes good sociotype pleasant and interesting for a job. Pretty conformal behavior, it easily adapts to the other, believing that people are willing to go forward, if only to create an atmosphere of comfort and offer something that they do not have to live in his pleasure.

    - Master (SP, SLI): the world is ruled good. In accordance with the philosophy he had nothing to do for themselves will not be useless and others will never offer. The principle of least action, in which lives the physical world - it is his principle. As the most technologically-minded type, he believes that the main argument - that appeal to common sense man.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    I have rosetta stone russian but I got too much school to talk to myself in a language I do not yes understand :*(. But eventualllllly......
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    hmm interesting ... I'll get a better translation done over weekend .. ty for digging this up


    edit:

    6. Philosophy of the types


    The problem of incentives is closely related to the problem of existential motifs. This is a deeper and more abstract category, which I, as a representative of intuitive thinker class, would like to address in conclusion of this article. Each sociotype has its own existential outlook - a philosophically-oriented generalized concept of the driving force that directs other people and the world at large. From this particular interpretation it will follow how a type chooses to solve the question of the primacy of the material and the ideal. Those sociotypes whose motivation is primarily of material nature, I will conditionally call "materialists". All sensing types fall under this category. The opposing group of types, whose inner motivations are predominantly idealistic in nature, I will call "idealists". This group is comprised of all of the intuitive types.

    As is known in philosophy, idealism can be divided into two branches - objective idealism, which recognizes in one shape or form the idea of god - external supra-material instance that governs the world, and subjective idealism, which supposes that our notions of the world are that which gives rise to it.

    According to Jung, objective-oriented types are extraverts, subjective-oriented types are introverts. Consequently objective idealism is the philosophy of intuitive extraverts while subjective idealism - of intuitive introverts. In analogous manner this can be applied to the "materialist" sensing group: sensing introverts are thus subjective materialists while sensing extraverts are objective materialists. Different philosophical schools of thoughts will be treated rather loosely here, however, I am doing this for one purpose - to systematize existing observations about motivation of behavior on 16 levels.

    Note: One should not forget that what is discussed here concerns motivations of types rather than concrete individuals - representatives of different types can embrace any philosophy.

    Lets proceed to examine each type:


    1. Objective idealists (ENxx)

    - The Mentor (EIE): god, fate, destiny rule the world. This type is one of the most oriented at mysticism and religion, honestly believing in its own messiahood, seeing itself as a missionary for forces cosmic or divine.

    - The Inventor (ILE): the universe is ruled by a universal intelligence. This sociotype more than others believes in ability of human mind to comprehend the most complex phenomena, in intelligent design of the objective world, in that it can be explained from the point of view of precise laws of logic. ("God does not play dice" - Einstein)

    - The Psychologist (IEE): world is governed by a feeling that is more powerful than the individual; this is one of the most altruistic types that is capable of helping people not asking for anything in return. This type has a strong predisposition for empathy.

    - The Entrepreneur (LIE): the creator of everything is living nature. This sociotype animates nature, itself becoming a dualist i.e. recognizing in equal measures the material and the idealistic beginnings that unite in the natural realm.


    2. Subjective idealists (INxx)

    - The Analyzer (LII): the world is governed by a thought («Cogito ergo sum» - Descartes). If people come to understand the systematized laws that govern the society, then society can be structured with fairness. The most constructive of all sociotypes, supposing that any phenomenon can be defined by universal prime elements (archetypes, Forms, a priori categories) and the connections between them.

    - The Critic (ILI): the world is governed by chance. Objective measures do not exist. Everything is relative and determined by probability. This type is most predisposed towards agnosticism of the intellect ("I only know that I know nothing" - Socrates). Knowledge is possible only when one attains complete inner clality and tranquility that can be achieved via meditation.

    - The Lyrisist (IEI): the world is governed by state, mood. This type possesses the most malleable type of psyche. It is strongly influenced by its own internal disposition. Because of this it is very easy to persuade this type in any issue if one is persistent enough. However, it will just as easily discard beliefs that were imposed on it.

    - The Mediator (EII): the world is ruled by kindness. The type that is most predisposed to compassion, even if its words and feelings are not realized as actions. This type has idealistic notions about kindness and fairness and that if everybody abides by these notions in everyday life this will lead towards a more humanitarian society. However, these have to come from the depths of individual's soul rather than imposed from the outside.


    3. Objective materialists (ESxx)

    - The Marshall (SLE): the world is ruled by power and strength. Most resolute of all sociotypes. Will enter an engagement only when he is sure that he has advantage in force or has found a weakness in the enemy forces. Objective reality, given to this type via his senses - this is what he trusts. Everything else is an illusion.

    - The Politician (SEE): world is governed by connections, fame and prestige. The most cautious one of all sociotypes, as it learns everything by making mistakes. It moves forward exploring its way by touch and trusting only its senses. Words, concepts, ideas - all of these are only instruments for exerting influence on people.

    - The Enthusiast (ESE): the world is ruled by impulse, fervor, attraction. The most emotive of all types capable of influencing the moods of others. This type can be considered to be part of idealist group, as it is able to do only that which it finds likable. However, its dependence on the emotional state of others is quite material.

    - The Administrator (LSE): the world is governed by labor, by work. This type has the most materialistically directed type of psyche. It will base its argument only on existing knowledge and laws. Completely dependent on the process of work, subjugating its own plans to it. Will reject any theories or schemes if they are not presented in a form of already established methods.


    4. Subjective materialists (ISxx)

    - The Inspector (LSI): the world is governed by order and discipline. This type is most dependent on organization of its concrete environment, completely subjugating itself to its adopted system. Every major alternative is rejected since deviation from accepted and polished system is equivalent to losing foothold and descending into uncontrollable chaos.

    - The Guardian (ESI): the world is governed morality and moral duty. This type of mentality more than any other depends on its internal moral attitudes. The individual is in the right to treat others as they deserve. The existing system of relations and moral values is protected from any impositions from outside. Even objectively provoked passion can be brought under control at will.

    - The Broker (SEI): the world is ruled by pleasure. This sociotype will only do work that is pleasant and not tiresome. Quite conforming in behavior, this type easily adapts to the others believing that people will positively reciprocate if only an atmosphere of comfort is created and something is offered that will improve the pleasantness of their lives.

    - The Master (SLI): the world is ruled by usefulness. In accordance with its philosophy this type will not do anything that it perceives as useless for itself and will never offer this to others. The principle of minimal action by which the physical world lives is its principle as well. As the most technologically-minded type, this type believes that the best argument is the one that appeals to the common sense of man.
    Last edited by silke; 09-12-2011 at 01:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    I have rosetta stone russian but I got too much school to talk to myself in a language I do not yes understand :*(. But eventualllllly......
    Send it to me. I'm a fucking word genius.

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    I have rosetta stone russian but I got too much school to talk to myself in a language I do not yes understand :*(. But eventualllllly......
    Send it to me. I'm a fucking word genius.
    AT LANGUAGES!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    WHY ISN'T THERE A SINGLE PERSON WHO SPEAKS RUSSIAN HERE?
    There have been a couple of them I believe.

    pasvalja!

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    Meh. Wtf is up with some of these, they make them out to be boring and dumb types. Even opposite types.

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    @ Yagyū Munenori

    Send it to me. I'm a fucking word genius.


    @poli

    sorry we all stoopid people
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    I would disagree with this. I don't think personality type defines a worldview per-say however I do think certain functions will incline people to a particular worldview. As a ILI myself, I believe that consciousness is nothing more than a reflection of the reality that exists outside of us; there ARE objective laws in the universe beyond our control, despite what Gluenko says for my type.

    Either way, I think people are able to overcome these inclinations and it's not set in stone.

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    Is that you in your avatars?

    I think Gulenko agrees with you; he states clearly that type does not determine worldview, but rather our natural inner framing of things and tendencies towards one belief or another.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Is that you in your avatars?
    yeah thats me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I think Gulenko agrees with you; he states clearly that type does not determine worldview, but rather our natural inner framing of things and tendencies towards one belief or another.
    Meh, It was hard to read, perhaps I missed it.

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    Robbie is actually a very attractive looking male.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Why do ILEs always derail thread topics?


    EDIT; my comment is derailing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Rob View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Is that you in your avatars?
    yeah thats me.
    Might I suggest SLE as a possible type? Just based on comparisons to a few people I've known.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    @gilly

    I can actually see the Ti EP look.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Rob View Post

    yeah thats me.
    Might I suggest SLE as a possible type? Just based on comparisons to a few people I've known.

    I've considered it. If we're speaking strickly in terms of V.I, I match the typical descriptions almost to the "T"

    Quote Originally Posted by Socionics.org
    Their necks are often not as well proportioned as other types and their heads seem to strain forwards.Their eyes have a sorrowful look about them as if they are about to be victimised in some way. Their noses are somewhat aquiline in shape which combined with often flattened cheekbones giving the false impression that their noses are large.

    In terms of personality, I'm either really quiet or I shit on peoples lives. The evidence suggests ILI
    Last edited by Red Villain; 09-19-2011 at 05:53 PM.

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    or SLE-ti
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Yeah idk I mean I put a lot of stake in VI and you seem SLE to me. I know that might sound kind of absurd but you have a look that is really familiar to me and it screams SLE. The expression on your face and in your eyes, the way you hold yourself...it all seems very familiar to me. I'd have to see you in person/on a webcam to feel more certain but the resemblances to other SLEs is significant.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Yeah idk I mean I put a lot of stake in VI and you seem SLE to me. I know that might sound kind of absurd but you have a look that is really familiar to me and it screams SLE. The expression on your face and in your eyes, the way you hold yourself...it all seems very familiar to me. I'd have to see you in person/on a webcam to feel more certain but the resemblances to other SLEs is significant.
    I'll look into it more.

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    Cool.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Yeah.... the ILI philosophy doesn't work for me either. Surprisingly, I actually hold a very similar view as Uncle Rob. Laws are outside of perception and are not relative. Man's interaction with these laws form order and disorder and also correlate with morality. The disorder is only a product from man's imperfection and if man were perfect he would interact in accord with these objective laws.

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    lol the EIE one fits me perfectly. /shame
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Yet another vote for "Sensors are closed-minded and have IQs of 100 or less".

    Amazing work, really.
    Know I'm mistyped?


    Why I am now.
    Why I was , once.

    DISCLAIMER
    The statements expressed in this signature may not necessarily reflect reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    lol the EIE one fits me perfectly. /shame
    I actually agree with the EIE one for me better than the ILI one. Not saying the EIE one is perfect because its not even close to a perfect fit for me but I think Gulenko had this stuff figured out better with the Cognitive styles and I think the EIE one is a bit closer to DA than mine is. The people I know who believe in relative truth have all been Alpha NTs and some Betas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat King Cole View Post
    Yet another vote for "Sensors are closed-minded and have IQs of 100 or less".

    Amazing work, really.
    See, the problem is only when people extend these definitions further than they are intended to go. Sensors are most privy to, and therefore most influenced by, "sensory" information and priorities. Think of it just like the rest of Socionics, not as a definitive statement about all of the minutia of the manifestation of personality, but rather as the driving force "behind the veil" of psychological operation. Obviously people are much more complex than types, but types count for something, IME; the key is moderation in interpretation, which for some reason most people are totally incapable of. I do think Gulenko is right, from my life experience, in saying that sensors are generally more driven by and naturally focused on material prospects and gains, more inclined to pursue the immediate, the direct, the visceral and tangible, rather than sit around dreaming up lofty ideals or . I think we've all seen movies regarding Sensor-Intuitive archetypes where the intuitive is some young whipper snapper who thinks he has it all figured out because he "understands the world," and proceeds to get his world rocked by the sensor with real-world exposure and vital, exclusively experiential knowledge; this is, in essence, a materialistic perspective on life, in the strictest sense of the word, but is obviously much more advanced, practical, and requiring of true intelligence and personal potency to gain proficiency in, than sitting around at a desk and daydreaming, or writing scientific treatises, or being "intellectually driven."

    People's misconceptions about Socionics, IME, all stem from either personal biases/baggage, or refusal to consider the full range of implications inherent in the categorical statements that may sometimes seem one-sided or favoritist. Don't just read the words; think about what is actually being said, the real contrasts that are being drawn and how they manifest in the real world of people's personalities, rather than taking everything said at face value, for in doing so you fall prey to the trap of human perception that Socionics can shed light on and actually mediate. Fucking irony at its finest.

    Also you just have to remember that, just like attractiveness, some people's personalities are ugly. Not everyone gets dealt a fair hand; God is not some neo-liberal middle aged mother who insists that everything be fair and good and well-balanced. So yeah, some sensors really are just immediate, sensation-oriented dipshits who live for the thrill and die young, or grow old, trapped in a job that they landed in because they never had ambition or thought about what they might actually do with themselves, content to glaze over in front of a big screen while shoveling doritos into their mouths and dying slowly. But a lot of them are smarter than intuitives, more intellectual, higher IQs, etc. I think the key thing to consider in the sense that Gulenko is operating is people's visceral priorities, the things that are somewhat unconscious and innate in us; Lacan's Symbolic Order, for example, would be something layered "above" the type in consciousness, more in line with direct control of the psyche, rather than innate and (relatively) internally consistent.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    The fuck does that mean?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    The fuck does that mean?
    As a guess, "Hire an editor." Personally I aim to present my thoughts briefly with each main point separated by paragraph for greater digestibility.

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    Yeah, but...I'm high
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Also I find that with some people these things sink in better if you explain things using different examples and divulge as much of your actual thought process as is realistic; sometimes it helps people relate to your thoughts and understand better. IME communication of these kinds of more complex ideas sometimes involves doing more than just stating the bare bones because otherwise you're just sort of encouraging people to take things at face value, which in this case would be rather self-defeating. Revealing your thought process helps people tap into the perceptions you are attempting to convey, rather than giving them an excuse to interpret you in a hyper-literal manner and fill in the blanks wherever they see fit. Some will regardless, of course, but I guess I kind of just have to try. My whole reason for not deeming this place totally worthless is that once in a while I am able to convey a kernal or two of what I see as my clear understanding of the subject and the way I interpret and conceptualize things, and it gives me faith that maybe I'm not crazy for wasting so much goddamn time on this shit.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Gilly, if Gulenko were actually saying that Sensors are driven by sensory information, I'd agree with you. But no, we have fantastic descriptions like "SEIs are about fun" and "ESEs are driven by their feelings", right next to "LIIs build systems to describe the universe".

    This article appears to undermine the intelligence of Sensory types, which is stupid.

    That said, the introduction actually makes it sound like he's come up with "Philosophy types", as "any type can follow any philosophy"; or maybe it's just a backdoor for the ever-looming outliers like me. At the end of the day, I'd say the LII philosophy fits me best.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat King Cole View Post
    Gilly, if Gulenko were actually saying that Sensors are driven by sensory information, I'd agree with you. But no, we have fantastic descriptions like "SEIs are about fun" and "ESEs are driven by their feelings", right next to "LIIs build systems to describe the universe".
    Are there any socionic descriptions that don't describe things in this same way?

    FWIW I don't see how it necessarily undermines any types intelligence.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Just look at the descriptions though. LIIs and ILEs are described as brilliant systemizers of everything forever.

    SEIs are described as being driven by "fun". LIEs I can only hope are victims of bad machine translation.

    It reeks of bias.
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    What are you talking about? LIEs have the coolest one! They're practically Captain Planet.

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    I've posted up the revised version. That explains why Russians keep typing Jung as LII.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sumer1an View Post
    Yeah.... the ILI philosophy doesn't work for me either. Surprisingly, I actually hold a very similar view as Uncle Rob. Laws are outside of perception and are not relative. Man's interaction with these laws form order and disorder and also correlate with morality. The disorder is only a product from man's imperfection and if man were perfect he would interact in accord with these objective laws.
    I don't think Gulenko means your overall philosophy, but more like your internal predisposition that influences your motivations, which the person is also likely to project on other people and the world at large. What he describes for ILI type, this "agnosticism of the intellect" and "knowledge is possible only when one attains complete inner clarity" is actually similar to what an ILI friend of mine has tried to describe about his mindset. It is also similar to what korpsey has described in this post - epoché, the suspension of judgement that serves as the basis for skeptical thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cat King Cole View Post
    Gilly, if Gulenko were actually saying that Sensors are driven by sensory information, I'd agree with you. But no, we have fantastic descriptions like "SEIs are about fun" and "ESEs are driven by their feelings", right next to "LIIs build systems to describe the universe".

    This article appears to undermine the intelligence of Sensory types, which is stupid.
    He is talking about the internal perceptions of different types, not their abilities, talents, skills, IQ, or EQ for that matter. Using your example he is not saying that "LIIs build systems that describe the universe" but that "LIIs see the universe as if it's built on systems". That's quite a different matter.

    I did cringe a little at the word "materialism" as some people will associate it with some negative connotation or another ("greed" comes to mind) but I suppose he had no better word to use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    or SLE-ti
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Yeah idk I mean I put a lot of stake in VI and you seem SLE to me.
    Anyone named Rob is automatically an SLE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat King Cole View Post
    Yet another vote for "Sensors are closed-minded and have IQs of 100 or less".

    Amazing work, really.
    See, the problem is only when people extend these definitions further than they are intended to go. Sensors are most privy to, and therefore most influenced by, "sensory" information and priorities.
    I am close-minded.

    But to the point. I don't know what the fuck you're smoking Gilly, for everyone is influenced by sensory information as you put it, otherwise you would be pretty dumb, you wouldn't be able to learn a simple language deprived of any sensory input whatsoever, that is.

    Really great wall of text though.

    As for anyone, reading and fucking Gulenko, you have to know this guy is wrong, maybe not in his cognitive styles, for they fit damn well members on here. That means you too, Gilly, and it is not the one you think you identify with.

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    I'm a bit surprised anyone gave more than a passing glance to these trite blurbs, let alone raised personal objections to them. After all, They Aren't Classical Socionics©.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    I've posted up the revised version. That explains why Russians keep typing Jung as LII.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sumer1an View Post
    Yeah.... the ILI philosophy doesn't work for me either. Surprisingly, I actually hold a very similar view as Uncle Rob. Laws are outside of perception and are not relative. Man's interaction with these laws form order and disorder and also correlate with morality. The disorder is only a product from man's imperfection and if man were perfect he would interact in accord with these objective laws.
    I don't think Gulenko means your overall philosophy, but more like your internal predisposition that influences your motivations, which the person is also likely to project on other people and the world at large. What he describes for ILI type, this "agnosticism of the intellect" and "knowledge is possible only when one attains complete inner clarity" is actually similar to what an ILI friend of mine has tried to describe about his mindset. It is also similar to what korpsey has described in this post - epoché, the suspension of judgement that serves as the basis for skeptical thought.
    alright, alright. This post actually really helped me. Nevermind what I said earlier. I came to those conclusions that I mentioned in that former post using the very philosophy (though Im not sure I would really call it a philosophy) that I was trying to refute. weird. I guess I just misunderstood the application of these types. You are right, it has more to do with your internal predisposition that allows you to form your philosophy rather than the philosophy itself.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post

    See, the problem is only when people extend these definitions further than they are intended to go. Sensors are most privy to, and therefore most influenced by, "sensory" information and priorities.
    I am close-minded.

    But to the point. I don't know what the fuck you're smoking Gilly, for everyone is influenced by sensory information as you put it, otherwise you would be pretty dumb, you wouldn't be able to learn a simple language deprived of any sensory input whatsoever, that is.
    Hey, faggot, learn the socionics definition of "sensory."

    Really great wall of text though.

    As for anyone, reading and fucking Gulenko, you have to know this guy is wrong, maybe not in his cognitive styles, for they fit damn well members on here. That means you too, Gilly, and it is not the one you think you identify with.
    Awesome, you should specify substantiate your claims instead of letting your metaphorical dick flap limp in the wind. Or you could be content to look like an idiot. Either way is fine with me.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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